Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
And any type of lead ones. Gunshop counter kid, was telling a guy you cant shoot lead bullets in most guns and especially Glocks . He said that they just skid straight the rifling without spinning, and once they leave the muzzle, start to tumble right away. He goes on and says its great for self defense as the knock down power at close ranges like 5-10 feet is unbelievable!!! Then after 50 rounds or so you'll have get a new barrel cause there will be so much lead in it you cant ever get them clean. The lead welds itself to the steel and cant be removed w/out damaging the rifling. I left without saying a word. No it wasn't a Gander Mtn. either.
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres
250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
OH NO! I have shot several hundred rounds of lead out of my .30-30, and I must be due for a new barrel for it. Funny, but the lead bullets it shoots seem to behave strangely and forget to tumble. They even make small holes in paper, and seem to like to try to make the holes very close together. What is wrong with the lead bullets in my .30-30?????
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Unfortunately someone could believe him! Being behind the counter at a gun store makes him a "Who Said", or one who speaks with authority and knowledge, and to a complete newby an expert. Also, because of his "position" he has to know...
Mike
Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit...
I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...
COSteve wrote:The tip off was the "Gunshop counter kid..." Most young folks these days don't bother to actually learn anything about what they run their mouths off on but rather just spout what they've heard from a friend or worse, the internet.
Not necessarily so. I know t least one 60 year old who owns a gun shop and styles himself a gunsmith whom I have heard make statements even more outrageous than that. In his case, I believe it's not ignorance, more a case of "Tell 'em anything to make a sale."
I have a bunch of guns ruined that way. On mine those lead bullets just make the bores shine even more. I better sell all my lead and molds quick before everybody learns this how bad lead bullets are.
centershot wrote:Somebody needs to slap that kid.....................even if it's only to wake him up!
Don't need to worry about smacking him . If he keeps up the DS long enough the person that owns the place will most certainly fire his backside !
Maybe maybe not some gun shop owners are just as stupid when it comes to what they should know but don't. I could see some gun shops if they only sell factory ammo spread BS about reloading and cast bullets. Especially if it may be a customer that sounds and acts like a gun newbie.
A gun is like a parachute: If you need one and don't have one, you won't be needing one again.
Ha! I logged exactly 8,000 rds last year (not counting .22 rimfire) and about 7,999 of them were cast...............................................But..............I have heard that Glocks are a no-no with cast. Never having one of these guns, I just don't know. I do know you can buy replacement barrels that are cast bullet friendly.---------------------------6
86er would be a good one to tell us about the Glocks since he is Glock Armorer certified. Didn't Glock use a different rifling than the standard land and groove? I seem to remember that they used rifling that was just flats in a polygon form. Marlin Microgroove did give less effective accuracy with lead from everything I have seen. Perhaps it was just not deep enough to catch the lead properly. That is a question better answered by those who know more about it than I do.
I have seen a barrel that had a lot of lead in the rifling that was cleaned by some generous elbow grease and a bronze brush with plenty of Hoppes number 9. I am sure that there are some folks on here who have seen the same thing, and maybe even have better methods to remove the lead. I would sure like to know what lube would be used to work as a flux to "weld" the lead to the steel at the temperatures and for the short time the lead is in contact with the steel. I could make a fortune on it if I sold it as a flux for solder.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Greetings
Many lead problems stem from using too small of a diameter cast bullet made of too hard of lead.
Have three micro grooves and all three shoot cast just fine. But they only get fead cast that is .002 over groove. A good tight fit and no problem.
My Glock model 22 has digested well over 2000 rounds of 180 grain cast bulets. Again a good tight fitted bullet not made of super hard lead. I use 50-50 mix and happily shoot along. Not sure how many rounds the 45 acp Glock has digested but should be near 500.
I recommend to everyone who wants to learn something about lead boolits to visit Castboolits/Reloads. Great info awaiting anyone who can read.
Mike in Peru
A sinner saved by FAITH in the Blood of Jesus Christ &teaching God´s Word in Peru. John 3:36
Tanker 71-74 NRA Life Ready to Defend the Constitution from enemies within and without.
One should also consider that facts are sometimes less important that perception. What people believe is more important than what is. If people believe one style rifling won't shoot one style bullet accurately and another will and it causes potential customers to shy away from the product then why not give them what they want. What they want not necessarily what is needed. That is why placebos are so effective.
The customer is always right even when they are wrong.
TedH wrote:Unbelievable. I wouldn't have been able to just walk away without at least attempting to set the kid straight.
Me either, either politely to him after the customer left, or at least to make sure I let his boss know he needed some more education on the topic.
mikld wrote:Unfortunately someone could believe him! Being behind the counter at a gun store makes him a "Who Said", or one who speaks with authority and knowledge, and to a complete newby an expert. Also, because of his "position" he has to know...
Yep - those are the SAME 'experts' the news media always cites as examples of "gun owners who realize the benefits of stricter gun control". . .
missionary5155 wrote:I recommend to everyone who wants to learn something about lead boolits to visit Castboolits/Reloads. Great info awaiting anyone who can read.
Mike in Peru
Also the Los Angeles Silhouette Club (http://www.lasc.us/) has some excellent information on the topic
And his girlfriend is a french model... he met her on the internet. "...Oui, je l'ai rencontrée sur internet!" What a tool!
What AJMD said.
AJMD429 wrote:
TedH wrote:Unbelievable. I wouldn't have been able to just walk away without at least attempting to set the kid straight.
Me either, either politely to him after the customer left, or at least to make sure I let his boss know he needed some more education on the topic.
mikld wrote:Unfortunately someone could believe him! Being behind the counter at a gun store makes him a "Who Said", or one who speaks with authority and knowledge, and to a complete newby an expert. Also, because of his "position" he has to know...
Yep - those are the SAME 'experts' the news media always cites as examples of "gun owners who realize the benefits of stricter gun control". . .
missionary5155 wrote:I recommend to everyone who wants to learn something about lead boolits to visit Castboolits/Reloads. Great info awaiting anyone who can read.
Mike in Peru
Also the Los Angeles Silhouette Club (http://www.lasc.us/) has some excellent information on the topic
I do not believe the pile of BS for one minute. I have a Marlin 1893 38-55 2nd year production. I have shot hundreds of cast bullets thru that gun & the bore shines like a new dime. It cleans very easily with very
little leading. I do use bullets with gas checks.
Sounds as if Mike in Peru understands how to use cast bullets. His answer to the Marlin Microgroove situation sounds reasonable, and he used it himself. I still want to know how to weld lead to steel that quickly and strongly. I could make a fortune in the solder industry. The kid behind the counter had obviously never tried to solder anything. It can be done, can be done quickly, but it is not welding!
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
My experience with microgroove and cast bullets matches Mike in Peru's. Size your bullets about .002 over groove diameter and there's nothing wrong with microgroove. The people who say cast won't work in a microgroove barrel are full of it.
I knew a gunshop owner who'd say anything to make a sale. He'd even take the extra mags out of the boxes of new pistols and sell them separate. He didn't get much of my business unless it was something I just couldn't get anywhere else locally. Mostly powder.
44-40 Winchester. Whacking varmits and putting meat on the table since 1873.
Tell ya what, an original 1911 does not like LSWC's...jambs all the time.
After a few thousand rounds of 115gr LRN's out of an M1 carbine, it started cycling inconsistently. Took the whole thing down and had lead dust in the gas chamber, loaded up the port.
So there can be some issues with cast, in certain guns. That is why I just recently picked up a new Ruger SR45...supposedly they handle cast.
I don't doubt the kid believed what he was saying. Guys gossip more than women sometimes, and are often just as gullible. Read it on the internet, so it must be true!
I think most issues with firing lead in most firearms can be resolved with some head scratching, and a bit (ok maybe a lot) of experimenting. That's all part of the fun, the reason we like to shoot.
Glocks have polygonal rifle and tend to strip off lead. You can shoot lead in Glocks, but must be diligent about cleaning out the lead. My Desert Eagle, on the other hand, has 2 strikes against lead. It has polygonal rifling similar to Glocks, and being gas operated, it has a tiny gas port that can get clogged by lead shavings and/or lube deposits.
I went into Gander Mtn. the other day to see if they had LR primers. The young fellow asked me what caliber I was loading because if it's a magnum then I needed magnum primers. Being in a bit of a hurry, I didn't explain that the caliber didn't matter, but the powder did - or the data recipe being used. I just told him that I'd take whatever LR primers he had.