25-06

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:30 am

I was looking through the brass at the reloading store and for some reason became enamoured with the shape of the 25-06. Another thing that makes sense about it is...it makes quarter-inch holes. Why so many calibers are in odd sizes is beyond me.

Who shoots 25-06?

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:45 am

Works fine but I see no reason to choose one over the 270.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:12 am

Old Savage wrote:Works fine but I see no reason to choose one over the 270.

But those 'quarter-inch holes' are cool - dontcha see. . . ?

(He's gonna change his mind when he realizes they're 0.257" instead of a nice-even 1/4".

)

Actually, there are cartridges that just look cool, and one should probably buy guns for them just to justify owning a few.

If we were starting now 'from scratch' we could probably do quite well with calibers .20, .25, .30, .35, .40, .45, and .50, actually. It seems like the biggest issue 'favoring' one vs. another is usually just the availability of high-ballistic-coefficient bullets, which is more a matter of demand and how long the magazines happen to be for the popular guns in that caliber, than of any technologic issue.

Having said all that, and back to the OP, I actually was going to get a .25-06 barrel for my Encore years ago, but when I went back to the store they had sold that barrel, so I got a .270 instead. Haven't used it much since you can't hunt anything but coyotes with them around here, and I have other guns for that. Either round would do I'm sure.

dkmlever · Post by **dkmlever** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:36 am

I have shot one for years, not as much muzzle blast as a 270, recoil is light, it is my go to antelope rifle. I love it!

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:53 am

Old Savage wrote:Works fine but I see no reason to choose one over the 270.

Generally lighter bullets Doc. Lower recoil. Ammo is widely available also so it's a pretty reasonable choice for someone who is recoil sensitive.

Oly

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:15 am

I built one years ago when it was a wildcat. Springfield action w/Harry Lawson thumbhole stock. Douglas bbl. in medium varmint wt. Loved it for accuracy and killing power on whitetail. Lots of 4831 and 100 grain bullet worked great.

Know what you mean about the sexy shape but have you seen a 6.5-06 AI? I have a bunch of cases, loaded rounds and the dies for it but no rifle.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:54 pm

He's gonna change his mind when he realizes they're 0.257" instead of a nice-even 1/4".

Actually that happened last night. I did some more reading and ran across that info. Even the 25-35 isn't 1/4", in fact the creator of 25-06 did it just to use the same bullets as 25-35 in the 30-06 case.

Guess I'll stick with .243. A little stubby but good ballistics, short action. 270 might be nice, but if you're going to do that, you're practically at 30 cal.

Savage has them both in lefty versions.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:54 pm

I've liked the 25-06 for a number of years !

And at the moment I own a pair of them !

One in a Browning B-78 of mid 70's vintage and the other in a Ruger #1B of early 90's vintage I believe .

Over the years I think I've owned maybe 6-8 rifles in 25-06 . Without a doubt the best shooter I ever had was a Remington 700 Sendero Stainless Fluted gun . This one was a true 1/4 MOA rifle with 87 grain Sierra's . Also had a nice Remington 700BDL Stainless Synthetic detachable magazine gun that was pure poisen on a deer with the Nosler 115 grain Ballistic Tip handload .

As to the 270 WIN , I have one of those in a Ruger #1B that shoots okay as well as another #1B in 280 REM .

For a number of years I've been more of a 25-06/ 280 person rather then a 270 person . But lately I'm finding I like the 6.5-06 the best outta the cartridges based on the 30-06 case .

Here's my Browning B-78 25-06 ,

Here's a Ruger #1B , it's not any of the cartridges mentioned but it'll give you an idea .

The 25-06 , 270 and 280 are in this safe with the rest of the #1's !

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:35 pm

When Jr. first got his .270 that was his grandfather's I started looking at the performance levels of it compared to other rounds. I think Jack O'Connor nailed it years ago when he called the .270 "perfectly balanced."
You can attain higher velocities in the .270 than you can in the .25-06.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:44 pm

Rusty wrote:When Jr. first got his .270 that was his grandfather's I started looking at the performance levels of it compared to other rounds. I think Jack O'Connor nailed it years ago when he called the .270 "perfectly balanced."
You can attain higher velocities in the .270 than you can in the .25-06.

Hard to disagree. Look at Hornady's Superformance line - incredible.

Oly

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:49 pm

AJMD429 wrote:[
Actually, there are cartridges that just look cool, and one should probably buy guns for them just to justify owning a few.

.

Probably the reason i am so enamored with the Weatherby family of cartridges

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:07 pm

My 6mm out performs the 25-06 with 100 gr bullets and moreso with distance. The 270 of course wins on weight and velocity.

Still I loaded for two other fellows who killed antelope and deer at 352 and 440 yds with 120s and I think 50 grs of IMR 4831.

It may be noted that the 270 is based on the 30-03 case.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:43 pm

Old Savage wrote:My 6mm out performs the 25-06 with 100 gr bullets and moreso with distance.

When you harvest some more of whatever you've been smoking please send me an ounce or two

It's been a number of years since I've experienced that "high"

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:56 pm

I have a beat up Ruger 77 tang safety in 25-06 that I sometimes use.

Around here, its the gun people use for Antelope. You might get a 100yd shot, but 300+ is the norm. Good friend of mine shot a Rem 700 adl for decades then sold it to my little brother for use on coyotes, when he was on the tractor. Now, his kids use it for the same thing.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:15 pm

Streetstar wrote:
AJMD429 wrote:[
Actually, there are cartridges that just look cool, and one should probably buy guns for them just to justify owning a few.

.

Probably the reason i am so enamored with the Weatherby family of cartridges

I have #1's chambered for the 270 Weatherby and 300 Weatherby that are okay !
I had a Remington 700CDL that was chambered for the 257 Weatherby that shot nicely . But I've been aware of this 6.5mm Weatherby that McWhorter came up with by simply necking down the 270 Weatherby and I'm thinking again I might like one of them on a nice old 700 action .

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:40 pm

I hunted with the .270 for many years, and it is a good caliber but I like the 25-06 with 100gr bullets a lot, and the model 70 in that caliber that I own is my most accurate rifle and recoil is quite mild with that bullet weight, but I believe it probably drops deer, about as good or better then my old 270 with 130gr bullets.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:55 pm

My Dad's side of the family has always been into the .257s, Roberts, Savage and the '06!
I had an elderly cousin that had a beautiful custom Springfield in .25-06.
She'd grab it and run out on the porch and pop a woodchuck or rabbit in her garden off hand at 50-80 yards
like a kid shootin' pop cans with a BB gun at 10'. Boom, done!

Sure wish I knew what happend to that rifle! Their kids were such dirt bags. Probably got sold for $50

jb

DixieBoy · Post by **DixieBoy** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:04 pm

Cool discussion, when we're talking about quarter inch (okay, .257") cartridges and rifles.

The most accurate "hunting rifle" (as opposed to "tactical rifles" with heavy barrels) I ever shot was a guy's .25-06 that I was offered a chance to put a few rounds through at the 100 yard + 200 yard range at our club. It was a Ruger, not a heavy barrel, and scary accurate at both of those admittedly shorter distances than you antelope hunters shoot at.

Most all of us here are handloaders, but I think reasonable availability is a consideration for a lot of hunter/shooter who are not handloaders. Heck, I live on the beach here on the coast of central Florida. Most hunters here are hog hunters and deer hunters. Yet, you can go into the beachside Wal-Mart and find .25-06 pretty much all the time. Maybe not as common as .30-06 or .30-30, but still, along with .243 these are the calibers that we'll find literally everywhere. Maybe .270 Win too.

As much as I love the .257 Roberts (that's my last name), I know that if I was out somewhere in the country and needed ammo for whatever reason, my chances of finding factory ammo are a whole lot less than for the other cartridges mentioned here. Still, that .257 Roberts is a darn sweet shooting cartridge, and pretty easy on the shoulder even for the youngsters. - DixieBoy

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:02 pm

6pt-sika wrote:
Old Savage wrote:My 6mm out performs the 25-06 with 100 gr bullets and moreso with distance.
When you harvest some more of whatever you've been smoking please send me an ounce or two

It's been a number of years since I've experienced that "high"

No, he's not at all out in the weeds from what I can see. Hornady's 95gr 6mm Superformance load outperforms their 90gr .25-06 Superformance load over the long haul. I didn't look any deeper than that, but it made it pretty clear he's not smoking anything.

Oly

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:09 pm

olyinaz wrote:
6pt-sika wrote:
Old Savage wrote:My 6mm out performs the 25-06 with 100 gr bullets and moreso with distance.
When you harvest some more of whatever you've been smoking please send me an ounce or two

It's been a number of years since I've experienced that "high"
No, he's not at all out in the weeds from what I can see. Hornady's 95gr 6mm Superformance load outperforms their 90gr .25-06 Superformance load over the long haul. I didn't look any deeper than that, but it made it pretty clear he's not smoking anything.

Oly

He made comments about handloads I assume .

And in my latest Hornady book the 25-06 with 100 grainers at the muzzle showed almost a 200 FPS advantage over the 6mm REM . I still think he was smokin that stuff before it cured out totally

I own and like the 6mm REM as well as anyone , but I can't buy that one . Maybe I'll just have to run the 25-06 and the 6mm over the Chrony next wednesday !

I have 95 grainers for the 6mm and 100 grainers for the 25-06 and both rifles have 26" pipes in the same configuration guns .

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:14 pm

Yes 6, it is called a chronograph and a ballistics table. It is the loads that are smokin

. The rifle has about 1450 rds through it - most over a chronograph.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:37 am

6pt-sika wrote:
olyinaz wrote:
6pt-sika wrote:
Old Savage wrote:My 6mm out performs the 25-06 with 100 gr bullets and moreso with distance.
When you harvest some more of whatever you've been smoking please send me an ounce or two

It's been a number of years since I've experienced that "high"
No, he's not at all out in the weeds from what I can see. Hornady's 95gr 6mm Superformance load outperforms their 90gr .25-06 Superformance load over the long haul. I didn't look any deeper than that, but it made it pretty clear he's not smoking anything.

Oly

He made comments about handloads I assume .

And in my latest Hornady book the 25-06 with 100 grainers at the muzzle showed almost a 200 FPS advantage over the 6mm REM . I still think he was smokin that stuff before it cured out totally

I own and like the 6mm REM as well as anyone , but I can't buy that one . Maybe I'll just have to run the 25-06 and the 6mm over the Chrony next wednesday !

I have 95 grainers for the 6mm and 100 grainers for the 25-06 and both rifles have 26" pipes in the same configuration guns .

Latest Speer manual. If I give you 150fps they're 2" apart at 500 yards.

.243 100gr Spitz BTSP BC .446 Muzz 3050 @ 300/-6.6 @ 500/-38.5

.257 100gr Spitz BTSP BC .393 Muzz 3200 @ 300/-6.0 @ 500/-36.5

And as I said, Hornady's Superformance line offers a 6mm load at 95gr and a .25-06 at 90gr. The 6mm drops less at 500 yards according to their data. The tables in my manual make it appear to me as though the more aerodynamic .243 bullets can hold their own right up to about 100fps differential vs. .257. Anything more and they fall behind, any less and they can surpass the .257 slugs. In the case of Hornady's Superformance ammo the 6mm slug has an even higher BC advantage as well as a kinetic energy advantage (95gr vs. 90gr) so at long range it bests the .25-06 by a hair despite starting out slower. The SAAMI max pressure spec for 6mm is a tad higher than for .25-06 and it looks to be a bit more efficient as well.

So given the case capacity difference between the two does it make sense for you to question the Doc? Sure, but not to scoff because it's clearly quite a horse race by any measure. In HIS experience he's getting better performance out of his 6mm and I can believe it in HIS experience.

If you're going to go do some tests I'd prefer that you did it with various factory loads with 100gr bullets as I'd love to see that data just for grins, but don't spend any money at my request unless you really need a good excuse to go and burn powder

because the manuals seem to make it pretty clear: The .25-06 has about 150fps on the 6mm but the 6mm has higher BC and higher SD bullets comparing apples to apples. Burns less powder and probably barks less too! Just guessing there though, I was always a .243 Win guy and only had one buddy with a 6mm my whole life so clearly I need to go and get one and get to know it real well.

Oly

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:25 am

My 6mm is faster than the manuals I have seen. I would not count on another rifle to match. On the other hand with powders like RL22 you may get a surprise.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:25 am

Old Savage wrote:My 6mm is faster than the manuals I have seen. I would not count on another rifle to match. On the other hand with powders like RL22 you may get a surprise.

I was contemplating RL22 since Hornady lists it for both . But by their numbers the 25-06 loaded to max in both with RL22 the 25-06 beats it at the muzzle by a little over 200 FPS I think . And that being with the 6mm shooting a 5 grain lighter bullet .

Now I have no aspirations for either of my 26" barreled rifles to equal what the book says . But I'd be willing to bet that at the muzzle the 25-06 is gonna smoke the 6mm NO PROBLEM .

Heck by Hornady's manual they claim the 257 Bob with a 100 grainer will out run the 6mm at the muzzle .

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:17 pm

I can easily get 3150 fps with number of combinations of powders and 100 gr bullets. With the slowest powders or 95 gr bullets over 3200 fps. The Speer manual is far off of this. In my experience 24" barreled 25-06s tend to under perform relative to some manuals. Results can reallly vary depending on the rifle used AND pressure barrels skew things further. Idon't hunt with 26" barrels on bolts.

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:06 pm

Old Savage wrote:I can easily get 3150 fps with number of combinations of powders and 100 gr bullets. With the slowest powders or 95 gr bullets over 3200 fps. The Speer manual is far off of this. In my experience 24" barreled 25-06s tend to under perform relative to some manuals. Results can reallly vary depending on the rifle used AND pressure barrels skew things further. Idon't hunt with 26" barrels on bolts.

Nothing wrong with 26 inchers matter of fact all of my Ruger #1's are 26" except the 220 Swift , 375 H&H and the 416 .

I am also more inclined to get 26" for the bolt action magnums as well if I can .

You'll have to understand me NOT taking your word for it .

I still think you harvested a good patch of weed

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:15 pm

olyinaz wrote:If you're going to go do some tests I'd prefer that you did it with various factory loads with 100gr bullets as I'd love to see that data just for grins, but don't spend any money at my request unless you really need a good excuse to go and burn powder because the manuals seem to make it pretty clear: The .25-06 has about 150fps on the 6mm but the 6mm has higher BC and higher SD bullets comparing apples to apples. Burns less powder and probably barks less too! Just guessing there though, I was always a .243 Win guy and only had one buddy with a 6mm my whole life so clearly I need to go and get one and get to know it real well.

Oly

Don't worry I have no intention of wasting money on a bunch of factory loads .

All I care about is the speed coming out the barrel and hence thats all I'm gonna try next week . Or anytime there after .

Since both rifles are Ruger #1's with factory 26" barrels thats about as close as I think anyone can get to being fair .

I'll use RL22 in both with whatever the max load is for the 6mm with a 95 grainer and the 25-06 with a 100 grainer .

I might even do something along these lines with the 257 Bob and 243 WIn as well wednesday !

I am quite certain I'll find the 25-06 the fastest the 257 second the 6mm thrird and the 243 last . All with 26" pipes on #1's .

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:39 pm

Well, there are repeatedly observed facts and preconceived notions. Let's see which should I go with, hmmmm

, I wonder?

I did have a .257 Roberts in a 22" Win 70. It wouldn't equal the 6mm w/in acceptable pressure limits with 100 gr. bullets - approx. 100 fps short.

Oly, on the factory front IIRC the 6mm operates at 65,000. 100 gr Corelokts were always 3100 or better.

The .25-06 is a couple thousand back at 63,000.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:37 pm

I don't think the 25-06 case uses slow powders ad effectively as the 6mm.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:41 pm

Old Savage wrote:My 6mm out performs the 25-06 with 100 gr bullets and moreso with distance. . . Still I loaded for two other fellows who killed antelope and deer at 352 and 440 yds with 120s and I think 50 grs of IMR 4831. . . It may be noted that the 270 is based on the 30-03 case.

I was wondering if anyone would mention that the .270 technically isn't a ".30-06 derivative".

The 6mm Remington is awesome, and I think is under-appreciated. Glad to hear you appreciate yours. The 4831 powder for me was perfect.

I can see that with the super-high-ballistic-coefficient bullets available for the 6mm, that once you get past the first hundred yards and things start settling in a bit, the bullet will keep on flying and be on target with plenty of punch, whereas I could see the slightly-larger and therefore stubbier, low-ballistic-coefficient, .25-06 bullets slowing down more quickly.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:59 pm

All true AJ. Rem factory 80 gr chrono avg 3500 fps. The copper 85s ee would use should do 3300-3400. 55 gr Noslers with I think about 53 gr of 414 reached almost 4,000.

44shooter · Post by **44shooter** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:14 pm

I have owned two and killed my first few deer with the first one. I found it two be a reliable deer killer both near and far. I used mostly 120 gr Corelokts and got good penetration. However, blood trails do not compare with those of 308/3006 shots. I have studied ballistic tables a lot over the years, and the 25-06 does not shoot any flatter than 270 or 280 with bullets I would hunt big game with. This is mainly due to superior BC of many hunting bullets from .264-.308. If you cherry pick bullets, even the 30-06 can match the trajectory of the 25-06. I also think if you are going to shoot bullets 100 grains or lighter, you are better off with one of the 6mms. Also these rifles were the same size as a 300 Mag, very long actions with 24 inch barrels.

So I switched to shorter rifles in larger calibers. I feel that I can hit just as far, hit harder, and make bigger holes with a rifle that is shorter, lighter, and not as loud. Although they do kick a bit more. Really though, with 120s a 25-06 can do anything the 130gr 270 can do in the field.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:44 am

44shooter wrote:I have owned two and killed my first few deer with the first one. I found it two be a reliable deer killer both near and far. I used mostly 120 gr Corelokts and got good penetration. However, blood trails do not compare with those of 308/3006 shots. I have studied ballistic tables a lot over the years, and the 25-06 does not shoot any flatter than 270 or 280 with bullets I would hunt big game with. This is mainly due to superior BC of many hunting bullets from .264-.308. If you cherry pick bullets, even the 30-06 can match the trajectory of the 25-06. I also think if you are going to shoot bullets 100 grains or lighter, you are better off with one of the 6mms. Also these rifles were the same size as a 300 Mag, very long actions with 24 inch barrels.

So I switched to shorter rifles in larger calibers. I feel that I can hit just as far, hit harder, and make bigger holes with a rifle that is shorter, lighter, and not as loud. Although they do kick a bit more. Really though, with 120s a 25-06 can do anything the 130gr 270 can do in the field.

Very interesting comments. I love long barreled rifles for poking holes in paper etc., but I can see where something like .260 Rem or 7mm-08 makes a ton of sense for a field rifle.

Oly

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:04 am

Old Savage wrote:All true AJ. Rem factory 80 gr chrono avg 3500 fps. The copper 85s ee would use should do 3300-3400. 55 gr Noslers with I think about 53 gr of 414 reached almost 4,000.

Reaching 4,000 with a 55 grain bullet in a 6mm should be no problem . I did that with a Pre 64 Model 70 Varmint in 243 when Nosler first came out with the 6mm 55 grain Ballistic Tip about 15 years ago . If I'm not mistaken the fastest load I clocked back then was right at 4,200 .

44shooter · Post by **44shooter** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:08 pm

Very interesting comments. I love long barreled rifles for poking holes in paper etc., but I can see where something like .260 Rem or 7mm-08 makes a ton of sense for a field rifle.

I hunt with a 308 mostly, but would be entirely comfortable with either of those as well. The 260 and 6.5 Creedmoor can play like a 257/25-06 with light bullets and like a 7-08,7x57,270 with the heavies. Mostly anyway.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:02 am

Well, I just found a 25-06 in a left handed version.

http://www.browning.com/products/catalo ... d=255&bg=x

Looks like a fine rifle.

Ruger Hawkeye is another one.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:00 am

243 with 85 gr TSX ammo is about perfect for deer in our area. Chrono about 3225 fps.

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:18 am

6pt,
Got watch how fast you get those 6mm bullets. Had a 6mm AI (actually marked 244 AI) once with a heavy 26" bbl. In damp weather the 55 grainers would "blue mist" about 50 yards out the muzzle. Never chronoed them but am pretty sure they were well past 4,000.
My all-time favorite deer rifle is a 660 Rem in 6mm. 100 grain bullets and they almost never take another step. Yeah, the 243 will do the same but you have keep trimming the cases 'til they separate after 6 or 7 loadings. I know, probably loaded way too hot but the 6mms seem to never need trimming. The 243 AI doesn't need much trimming either. Not much velocity gain but the brass seems to last forever so it makes it worthwhile.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:10 pm

Old Savage wrote:243 with 85 gr TSX ammo is about perfect for deer in our area. Chrono about 3225 fps.

True, and I will probably be going for yotes from now on anyway. I just finished a speaker setup for my fawn decoy. Might take it out over Labor Day weekend.

I do have a .243, a Handi-Rifle youth, very light. However, since I got my Savage .22, I find myself wishing for a "dead-nutz" accurate centerfire rifle.

I ran across the Ruger #1 last night, bull barrel, heavy, looks great.

J35 · Post by **J35** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:21 pm

El Chivo wrote:I was looking through the brass at the reloading store and for some reason became enamoured with the shape of the 25-06. Another thing that makes sense about it is...it makes quarter-inch holes. Why so many calibers are in odd sizes is beyond me.

Who shoots 25-06?

I have a Win Mod 70 in 25-06 I shot the heck out of it for about ten years, now it's a safe queen for the last 12 years.

For hunting it was a one bullet gun with me, the 117 Sierra BT 4831 and a Win LRM primer 3150FPS. couse deer, pronghorn, coyotes in the summer, Jackrabbits and a truck load of Prarrie dogs.

I worked up one load with the 87 gr speer that went 3580 AV. FPS it was accurate but I never shot anything besides paper with it. That is the fastest speed I have ever logged on the chrony with anything.

It's the only bolt rifle I still own. To many good memories to ever part with it.

Have fun-- J