Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
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- J Miller
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Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
OT: Sorry Hobie, I just had to do that for old times sake
As some of you know, ( and I'm sure don't care ) I've taken up a hobby fixin' and using sewing machines. Occasionally I get one that will give me a buzz when I touch it.
What I'm looking for is a place to start diagnosing it. I can check all the wiring connections (I guess that's a place to start), to make sure there's nothing wrong there, but if that don't fix it, where do I look next? I have one that will buzz me, and one that's almost a byte.
This happens more in the basement where there is a strange electrical thing. Lots of metal, conduits, and a bare concrete floor.
Joe
As some of you know, ( and I'm sure don't care ) I've taken up a hobby fixin' and using sewing machines. Occasionally I get one that will give me a buzz when I touch it.
What I'm looking for is a place to start diagnosing it. I can check all the wiring connections (I guess that's a place to start), to make sure there's nothing wrong there, but if that don't fix it, where do I look next? I have one that will buzz me, and one that's almost a byte.
This happens more in the basement where there is a strange electrical thing. Lots of metal, conduits, and a bare concrete floor.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: OT: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
Are Your outlets Grounded ?
Perry
Perry
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- J Miller
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Re: OT: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
The one the machine is plugged into is. Well the machine is plugged into an extension cord that has a built in circuit breaker. That is plugged into the grounded outlet.pwl44m wrote:Are Your outlets Grounded ?
Perry
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: OT: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
Is it only the two Machines that do it ? Assuming they have original cords, check under the paper insulator to see if the wires are frayed and touching the other prong.
Perry
Perry
Perry in Bangor----++++===Calif
Re: OT: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
what vintage machine?
3 wire cord [external ground]?
2 wire cord [insulated case]?
obvious stuff, you are the path to ground when you get "buzzed".
in your basement you are providing a better path, for whatever reason.
3 wire cord [external ground]?
2 wire cord [insulated case]?
obvious stuff, you are the path to ground when you get "buzzed".
in your basement you are providing a better path, for whatever reason.
careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
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- horsesoldier03
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Re: OT: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
If your getting buzzed it aint grounded properly. The question is "WHERE IS IT NOT GROUNDED PROPERLY"? I would go to True Value or other place with electrical stuff and get a Receptical Test Plug that you plug into the outlet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptacle_tester
http://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Recept ... B0012DHVQ0
If it aint the wall socket, it is probably a spliced wire on that old sewing machine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptacle_tester
http://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Recept ... B0012DHVQ0
If it aint the wall socket, it is probably a spliced wire on that old sewing machine.
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Re: OT: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
Joe, I remember Our first encounter - No I don't think U R a blithering Idiot. But Are You sure Your outlets are grounded or are You assuming because they have 3 prongs ? One of those outlet testers like horsesoldier mentioned would tell U for sure.
Perry
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Re: OT: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
How many prongs on the sewing machine cord?
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- J Miller
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Re: OT: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
Perry,pwl44m wrote:Is it only the two Machines that do it ? Assuming they have original cords, check under the paper insulator to see if the wires are frayed and touching the other prong.
Perry
Only two that I can say for sure. Maybe three. But since we have over 30 and most don't do it, it's kind of a icky feeling when it happens.
I should say that those machines that are doing this are very old.
Two are pre WWII, one is maybe 100 years old.
>One of the machines has been completely rewired from the inside of the motor out.
>One has a new cord set from the motor block to the wall and a new foot controller as well. The light has been rewired too, but the motor is original. This is the one that started this thread.
>The last one has been completely rewired from the block out to the wall and foot controller.
Pokey,pokey wrote:what vintage machine?
3 wire cord [external ground]?
2 wire cord [insulated case]?
obvious stuff, you are the path to ground when you get "buzzed".
in your basement you are providing a better path, for whatever reason.
Very old, I covered that above.
All have two wire cords. None of our machines up to the newest one made in the mid 80s have three wire cords.
I think, I did a thread some time back about the first machine wiring. But it's been a very long time. This basement has a lot of metal AC ducting in the end my work area is in. I can touch a volt meter to the ducting and to a metal object plugged in, running or not and get nearly a full voltage reading.
The link to it was on our dead hard drive.
It's like the air in the basement is the conduit as much as anything else.
I can take the machines upstairs and get little or no buzz off the same machines.
horsesoldier03,horsesoldier03 wrote:If your getting buzzed it aint grounded properly. The question is "WHERE IS IT NOT GROUNDED PROPERLY"? I would go to True Value or other place with electrical stuff and get a Receptical Test Plug that you plug into the outlet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptacle_tester
http://www.amazon.com/Electrical-Recept ... B0012DHVQ0
If it aint the wall socket, it is probably a spliced wire on that old sewing machine.
That sounds like a good idea. I'll pick up one of those testers next trip to the hardware store.
I'm pretty careful with my wiring, but I suppose a stray wire could exist. Another thing to check.
Perry,pwl44m wrote:Joe, I remember Our first encounter - No I don't think U R a blithering Idiot. But Are You sure Your outlets are grounded or are You assuming because they have 3 prongs ? One of those outlet testers like horsesoldier mentioned would tell U for sure.
Perry
Your memory is better than mine ~or~ do I really want to remember?
And sometimes even I think I'm a blithering idiot. I just try to not to do it too often.
The one the extension cord is plugged into is a three wire system ... I'm semi sure. I haven't taken the plate off the box to look, but it's a 2 wire with ground cable going from the breaker box to the outlet. No guarantee the ground wire is hooked up though.
Something else to check.
All are two wire systems.williamranks wrote:How many prongs on the sewing machine cord?
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: OT: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
The problem could be inside motor no? Something grounding to the housing and then through the mounting points to the sewing machine frame?
Oly
Oly
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Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
- J Miller
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Re: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
Could be.
That I can check with a meter.
Joe
That I can check with a meter.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
- J Miller
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Re: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
Well this is interesting, but not unexpected.
I brought the machine in question up stairs.
She's a White Dressmaster made in the 30s as far as I can find out, and yes she's OD green
The using my continuity meter I checked for any form of continuity between the cord block and the rest of the machine. Since the contacts in the cord block are directly connected to the motor wires if there is bad insulation inside the motor and it's making contact the meter would show it.
Nothing. OL all the way across.
So then I plugged it in to a non grounded extension cord which was plugged into a non grounded outlet and there was no buzz.
What ever the problem is, it is in the basement.
Joe
I brought the machine in question up stairs.
She's a White Dressmaster made in the 30s as far as I can find out, and yes she's OD green
The using my continuity meter I checked for any form of continuity between the cord block and the rest of the machine. Since the contacts in the cord block are directly connected to the motor wires if there is bad insulation inside the motor and it's making contact the meter would show it.
Nothing. OL all the way across.
So then I plugged it in to a non grounded extension cord which was plugged into a non grounded outlet and there was no buzz.
What ever the problem is, it is in the basement.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
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Re: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
Build yourself an outlet with a ground circuit interrupter (we call 'em earth leaks, I think you call 'em GFCIs or some such). That'll spare you the buzz and mebbe a trip in a white van with a cross on the side.
- Griff
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Re: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
Aye, Joe, it sounds like the wiring into the basement is butt backwards... or simply isn't going to ground as it should. Or in one socket or another the hot side is touching the case. You have metal boxes, or plastic ones?
My F-I-L and B-I-L were excellent electricians... wished I learned more from them when I worked for them in college... but hating that "buzz" I never trusted them too much. They LIKED working on hot circuits... they always said they could tell when stuff was right that way! Not me. Getting knocked on my kiester once was enough to learn me!
My F-I-L and B-I-L were excellent electricians... wished I learned more from them when I worked for them in college... but hating that "buzz" I never trusted them too much. They LIKED working on hot circuits... they always said they could tell when stuff was right that way! Not me. Getting knocked on my kiester once was enough to learn me!
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- J Miller
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Re: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
This house was built in the 50s. By the looks of the materials and construction we're pretty sure it was not built by a construction company. The wiring is at least three generations. The newest appears to be the circuits we are using for the machines. This is the circuit the wash machine is on as well.
If the wires are backwards or not properly grounded it is the landlords responsibility to fix them. And unless one of us is killed he couldn't care less. Typical landlord.
We are planning to buy one of the little testers mentioned above, and then we should know.
Until then I figure we'll have to move the machines away from those circuits.
Joe
If the wires are backwards or not properly grounded it is the landlords responsibility to fix them. And unless one of us is killed he couldn't care less. Typical landlord.
We are planning to buy one of the little testers mentioned above, and then we should know.
Until then I figure we'll have to move the machines away from those circuits.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Re: OT: Is there any small appliance doctors in the house?
revisit this.J Miller wrote:
This basement has a lot of metal AC ducting in the end my work area is in. I can touch a volt meter to the ducting and to a metal object plugged in, running or not and get nearly a full voltage reading.
Joe
could be it's not the machines.
sounds like your ductwork may be hot.
careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
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"BECAUSE I CAN"