Truckers - what's the story on these new tires I'm seeing..?

[AJMD429]

About 10% of the semis now seem to be sporting non-dualie type tires. Are they better or cheaper or what?

It seems like if one blew out you'd have more problems than with the dualie ones.

We also noticed on a recent 1,000 mile drive that there seem to be more shreds of truck tires all over the road than usual. Anything to do with the new kinds of tires...?

[Bridger]

I'm no trucker, but I believe they are called "super singles" and I have noticed Schnieder seems to run a lot of them.

[pwl44m]

Are they big fat ones like the Concrete Trucks use ?
Perry
Funny, just had to use the saved draft thingy

[pdentrem]

Seen these first in Europe. I think Michelin is the one that pushed these, but I could be wrong.

[deafrn]

The way a contact who is in the industry explained it to me was that for trucks which never leave improved roads there are savings in fuel, maintenance and tire wear by using supersingles, but the cost to convert over and worries about what happens when a tire goes flat without a redundant dual keep some people shy of them. They are also expensive, but that is softened a bit by the fact that the operator is buying one tire instead of two conventional tires.

AFAIK, much of the rubber left along the highway is still the result of poor quality retreading or a tire that was already toast before getting recapped.

[Sixgun]

Doc,
As I load trucks for a living I see these new tires a lot-----always on company owned trucks as deafrn says they save the company on wear and tear, fuel, etc. The owner/operators hate them as they are more expensive to replace and they have a lesser load capability. I have to load the trucks with single pallets on the nose of the trailer because of the weight issue that these tires have.

One guy I load everyday bought a used company tractor that had these "super singles" on and he blew a tire last month--it left him on the side of the road until he could get it fixed when before if he had a half of a tandem blew he could continue to his destination as long as it was not too far.-------------Sixgun

[Rusty]

Yes super singles were sold to the industry as a way to save weight on the unit. IIRC when they first came out they were only supposed to be used on trailers. Not intended to be used on drive tires. Now they use them on drives as well. I think I read somewhere that California either is going to or has now required all trucks to be equipped with them because they claim the super singles don't tear up the roads as bad.
Griff would know more about that I'm sure.

Drivers I have talked to don't like them. They claim they don't feel firm on the road and are even worse in the rain.

[flatnose]

Remember first seeing them 40 yrs ago in the U.K.
Gas and bulk tankers used them on their trailers, then they were used on the driven axles on ridgid trucks.
Drivers love them for off road and construction sites in the U.K. Advantages are, longer tire life, better fuel mileage, increased payload due to ligter wheels and tires. One of the best benefits especially for off road and construction site usage is the fact there is no space between two tires as with the dually set up. No gap for bricks, rocks, boulders, mud and debris to get stuck in, and therefore no time spent in cleaning that space out before hitting the highway. Ever see a rock launched from between the wheels of a dually?

[Old Ironsights]

Our "new" (M35A3) Duce & 1/2 wildland fire truck has super singles instead of the old-school Army duals (M35A2).

[Old Time Hunter]

I'd differ to Griff, but will add my two cents from my experience as owning a transportation company years ago to handle my produce brokerage business.

They started showing up back in the mid-80's around the USA and from what I could tell they did not catch on. Sorta like soccer, worked in Europe, but not here. Back then we tried 'em out on both a trailer and on the drives of one tractor. None of my drivers' liked 'em. Balance was a real issue, especially haul'n 1029 boxes on 21 skids of granny smith apples (approximately 50k). Fuel mileage gains were marginal on light loads, and worse on heavy loads. They also had a tendency to have tread separation in the center causing major vibrations. Tire company said I needed to slow my drivers down, that they were only rated at 100kph (62.5 MPH + 10% safety factor). Back then, my trucks had 4 1/4(417 to the wheels) 3406B Cats with 15 overs and 3.55 gears on 24.5LP's...Griff, you'd understand this better. They cruised @ 72 MPH while only turning 1650 RPM...500 more to go, 'sure ya got the picture. My drivers thought that Montana was a 10 hour drive.

So now they are back, and still don't see the reason. Supports the tire companies and the service concerns....I guess.

[mikld]

I was told they would save on fuel costs plus they were all tubless. Also they were safer to change; no "decapitizing rings". I changed a lot of tires about 20 years ago for a large city power utility's construction equipment. All the mixer trucks had super-singles (city owned about 35). All the tires I worked with/changed were done on the floor, no changing machine, and I defineately needed a break after I changed a super-single...

[Old Ironsights]

Not having to mess with split rings & tubes is a big deal IMO...

[AJMD429]

I think I read somewhere that California either is going to or has now required all trucks to be equipped with them because they claim the super singles don't tear up the roads as bad.

If Kalifornia is requiring them, that makes me not like them already...!

[Griff]

They are a weight saving deal. One super-single wheel & tire weighs about 75% of comparable sized/rated duals. Losing weight increases payload capacity and fuel mileage. Claims of fuel economy increases seem to be around ½ mpg. Few actually see that. ¼ is more likely, aand cost differences are minimal, but can be huge IF you're replacing dual wheel vs buya new truck equipped with them. I was quoted $700 a wheel about 6 years ago. I was offered to exchange my duals for SuperSingles for the cost of the tires at that time. Those offers are gone away. I spent $70,745 on fuel last year, a ½mpg improvement would have reduced that to $69542.33. That ain't chicken feed, but neither is it free money.

I used to pull for a company that has started using them. At 1st on trailers. They aren't as wide as duals, so on rutted roads your hind end is constantly being thrown from side to side. When you do have a blow-out on a super single, it's my understanding that abt 25% of the time thhe wheel will kiss the pavement before you can get stopped. That's about a $1500 tab, instead of about $400 for just a regular dual tire.

90% of blowouts are caused by under-inflation. Under inflation causes more flex in both sidewalls and tread. All that flexing geberates heat. And said heat causes separation of casing to tread. The thing that concerns me most about them is flotation. As any off-roader knows, if you want better flowtation, you mount wider tires. The downside to flotation is that you CAN have too much. especially when the road surface is covered with one form of H2O or another. When in its liquid state, it is advantageous to have as little under the tread as possible.

I might not be the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, but those engineer types at Micheliln have yet to convince me that making that water move FARTHER is better. But that's just IMHO.

And, as for CA requiring them... the CARB is recommending and mandating sevveral things in the name reduced emissions, but the DOT there has considfered outlawing them due to seemingly increased involvement with accidents in inclement weather.

[jcw]

We have them on our fleet of tankers and on the tractor drive axels. As to cost savings, I think the jury is still out on that issue. They are lighter so we haul a bit more. I've no access to the numbers so don't know how long, or if they will pay for themselves. I have close to 400,000 miles on the equipment I drive. They ride a little bit better than the duels. The tire shop doesn't have to dismount rim from hub to change tire. They jack up the unit , deflate tire , break the bead, use a pry bar to pull off rim. Looks simple enough. The only down side is chaining. Company won't let us use cables so we use the real thing. Pain in the butt. There is no way to get and keep chain tight. Needless to say, we break a lot of cross links. also Washington makes you chain both drive axels if running singles on a 5 axel set up. We have not had any blow outs at our terminal, but we are also running a wireless remote tire pressure warning system that will tell you if you have a leak. You can also monitor tire pressure on each tire while driving. This probably is why we have had very few tire issues. On the other hand, if I was running my own truck I would stay with duels. Not every tire shop is set up with spare s/singles and rims. Rims and tires are sitting in regional tire warehouses and have to be ordered in many cases.

[AJMD429]

The only down side is chaining. Company won't let us use cables so we use the real thing. Pain in the butt. There is no way to get and keep chain tight. Needless to say, we break a lot of cross links. also Washington makes you chain both drive axels if running singles on a 5 axel set up.

What's "chaining"...? (I know it's probably a dumb question, but the biggest truck I ever drove was a 24 ft Ryder rental... )

[Rusty]

Tire chains for snow.

Not a problem for us here in Fla. but I did wonder about that.

[Griff]

If the roads are bad enough for chains... I PARK! Regardless of what CA, WA, OR those other states say, snow shouldn't require chains. ICE requires chains... and if the roads are iced... PARK. Nobody's freight is valued higher than my life. 'Sides, chains won't fit on my truck...




I did get inspected in CA (@ Truckee) shortly after getting the truck rebuilt... the inspector was actually rubbing his hands together in glee as he asked me how I planned on complying with the CA law for chains with my rear fenders. I told him, "...the requires that I CARRY chains, not that I install them. I plan on parking when the chain law is in effect."

They sometimes state that chains are required, but in actual fact, have imposed the "modified chain law", where "twin-screw" tractors don't require chains if they have traction tread tires, ie, mud/snow whether of a closed or open shoulder design. Single drive tractors must still chain their drive and at least one set of trailer tires (on each trailer if pulling doubles).

I see far too many drivers still driving too fast in snow and ice. It doesn't matter how fast your able to go and keep traction, what matters is what'll happen when you hit your brakes. If you can't come to a controlled stop (& by that I mean straight and without sliding), you're forward speed is too fast! But, hey! that's just my opinion.

[Hobie]

Our "new" (M35A3) Duce & 1/2 wildland fire truck has super singles instead of the old-school Army duals (M35A2).

I'd like to see a photo of that! Hard to imagine!!

[Old Ironsights]

Our "new" (M35A3) Duce & 1/2 wildland fire truck has super singles instead of the old-school Army duals (M35A2).

I'd like to see a photo of that! Hard to imagine!!

When we get it in I'll take some pics. But IIRC all of the M35A3s have Super Singles on the rear 4.

[Borregos]

If the roads are bad enough for chains... I PARK! Regardless of what CA, WA, OR those other states say, snow shouldn't require chains. ICE requires chains... and if the roads are iced... PARK. Nobody's freight is valued higher than my life. 'Sides, chains won't fit on my truck...




I did get inspected in CA (@ Truckee) shortly after getting the truck rebuilt... the inspector was actually rubbing his hands together in glee as he asked me how I planned on complying with the CA law for chains with my rear fenders. I told him, "...the requires that I CARRY chains, not that I install them. I plan on parking when the chain law is in effect."

They sometimes state that chains are required, but in actual fact, have imposed the "modified chain law", where "twin-screw" tractors don't require chains if they have traction tread tires, ie, mud/snow whether of a closed or open shoulder design. Single drive tractors must still chain their drive and at least one set of trailer tires (on each trailer if pulling doubles).

I see far too many drivers still driving too fast in snow and ice. It doesn't matter how fast your able to go and keep traction, what matters is what'll happen when you hit your brakes. If you can't come to a controlled stop (& by that I mean straight and without sliding), you're forward speed is too fast! But, hey! that's just my opinion.

Some very wise words there Griff

[olyinaz]

Our "new" (M35A3) Duce & 1/2 wildland fire truck has super singles instead of the old-school Army duals (M35A2).

I'd like to see a photo of that! Hard to imagine!!

I think all new Army deuces have singles:



Cheers,
Oly

[Rusty]

I'm with ya Griff. The older I get the less I care about the freight gettin there and more about me gettin back.

I just logged my million safe miles earlier this month.

I heard an older driver telling a youngster about driving a mountain road one time. He said "son you can go down that hill a bunch of times too slow, but you're only goin down it once too fast."

[jcw]

[quote="Griff"]If the roads are bad enough for chains... I PARK! Regardless of what CA, WA, OR those other states say, snow shouldn't require chains. ICE requires chains... and if the roads are iced... PARK.

Where we run, we Have the chance of running into snow from late Oct. to the end of May. The latest I have chained is may 23. It's part of the job and you get used to it or you don't. Been doing it for 37 years now. You're right, if you are not comfortable driving in it don't.

[Sixgun]

Griff,
Thats a clean looking KW Very nice.------Sixgun

[AJMD429]

Tire chains for snow. Not a problem for us here in Fla. but I did wonder about that.

Wow. I'd have thought you just didn't GO out if it was that bad, at least not in a semi-trailer. I suppose if you're already way out somewhere and a mountain blizzard hits suddenly...but even then, if I had to choose between putting on tire chains while pulled off to the side in a blizzard (especially on a semi-tractor), or parking and sitting it out, I think I'd be parking...!

I did drive from Cincinnati to Indianapolis on officially-closed roads once; started out with studded tires on the rear, but after the wind blew me in circles a couple times, I stopped right in the middle of I-74 and put the studded tires on the front and added the chains as I swapped the front tires to the rear. Got some frost-bite in the process (took over an hour, warming my hands up in the car every few minutes), but no cars came along for me to be in the way of. I guess I learned why they had blocked off the interstate and officially closed it... - I think it was a 9-hour trip that day.

[Old Ironsights]

Our "new" (M35A3) Duce & 1/2 wildland fire truck has super singles instead of the old-school Army duals (M35A2).

I'd like to see a photo of that! Hard to imagine!!

We got our Truck Back!

All new A3 Chassis under our cab & Fire Package:




Note the Super Singles. According to the USFS guy who built it for us, it's 5" narrower because of it but has almost the same rubber on the ground. Narrower is good because it keeps us from chewing off the outside tire sidewalls on narrow 2-tracks.

[Moondawg]

In Korea 1965-66, our old GMC duce and a half 105 howitzer tow trucks had large singe tires on the rear axles as opposed to smaller diameter duelies. I understand a lot of WWII duce and halfs also had large singles on the rear drive axes. So it apparently is an idea that has been around for awhile.

[Coldfingers]

I saw the first set of SuperSingles up on the Dalton last summer. They were short lived Once the first snowflake hit the ground the driver KNEW he was in trouble.

Chains are a fact of life for me. Even with hardpacked snow with the power divider and both sets of lockers in there is no way to get that darn tanker up some of our grades without iron hanging. Chains are my friend! Burning out and sliding backwards is never any fun.

I wonder how much starting fluid one must shoot into a SuperSingle to get it to re-seat on the bead while doing a roadside repair?

Be safe out there.

Scotty

[jcw]

'I saw the first set of SuperSingles up on the Dalton last summer. They were short lived Once the first snowflake hit the ground the driver KNEW he was in trouble.'

All the drive axels have to be chained and you will chain them in places you don't have to chain duels. Whole new learning curve.

"Chains are a fact of life for me. Even with hardpacked snow with the power divider and both sets of lockers in there is no way to get that darn tanker up some of our grades without iron hanging. Chains are my friend! Burning out and sliding backwards is never any fun."

Hills, snow/ice, tankers = BIG boat anchor..

"I wonder how much starting fluid one must shoot into a SuperSingle to get it to re-seat on the bead while doing a roadside repair?"

IIRC, the volume of a SS is about 1.5 X the volume of a single.


Be safe out there.

Scotty

[dogngun]

Griff, I used to drive a straight truck many years ago.

Anybody who drives on ice is just nuts. We have icy conditions here in PA several times every year, at times so bad the State Police close the interstates, and there are ALWAYS some people who drive as if they had never seen it before, and are amazed when they can't stop.

I was very relieved when I retired and did not have to drive in those conditions again.

I just watch the terrible traffic on TV.

Link: http://www.truckinginfo.com/news/news-d ... s_id=69389


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