Battle of Midway - 70 years ago today

[El Chivo]

Ok the big day was June 4, but the first B-17's went out after the Japanese fleet on June 3. It's always been my favorite battle, especially the Marines flying Brewster Buffalos knowing they had no chance and went up anyway. Also the men in the torpedo planes who went down quickly but in doing so set the stage for our dive bombers. A few brave men gutting the world's most powerful navy.

[RIHMFIRE]

incredible group of men ....
outnumbered, outgunned, and still won...

btw..excellent movie too!

[new pig hunter]

something not many folks know is that John Ford, the movie director, was on Midway when the Japanese attacked ....
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq81-8b.htm

Cheers,

Carl

[DixieBoy]

I met Ensign George Gay at the Warbird Air Show in Titusville, Florida back in 1989. Got a chance to shake his hand. Bought his book, Sole Survivor and he signed it for me. Ensign Gay, for those not familiar, literally was the sole survivor of Torpedo Squadron 8 from the Battle of Midway. Meeting him made a big impression on me, that this man was able to go on after having every single one of his buddies in his squadron die during that battle.

Something else impressed me too. George Gay always signed his books with an admonition: "Keep America Strong." His generation knew what it was like to have to fight against almost overwhelming odds, especially in the early part of the war. I wish we had more with his spirit and plain old guts today. - DixieBoy

[.45colt]

God Bless them All.

[Griff]

...I wish we had more with his spirit and plain old guts today. - DixieBoy

We do, just not on Capital Hill.

I was stationed there for most of '71. Learned to play golf, they confiscated my surfboard... but they compensated by installing beer machines in the barracks! Plenty of artifacts around if you looked or knew who to ask.

[bdhold]

the war was decided that day, though sadly, the next two years mopping up took 100,000 American lives.

[gak]

Arguably the turning point of the war. Though many setbacks were to follow, it was critical for us to deliver that first, ultimately crippling blow. Still odd to think, as many WWII afficianados know but most others don't, Midway is techically part of the Hawaiian island chain, by distant extension. It'd be fascinating to visit (don't know if open? - I think it's not) Virtually treeless IIRC.

[Griff]

Arguably the turning point of the war. Though many setbacks were to follow, it was critical for us to deliver that first, ultimately crippling blow. Still odd to think, as many WWII afficianados know but most others don't, Midway is techically part of the Hawaiian island chain, by distant extension. It'd be fascinating to visit (don't know if open? - I think it's not) Virtually treeless IIRC.

Yep, after my 1st stint in VN I'd asked for shore duty in Hawaii... got Midway Is. 1300 NW of Honolulu! But it counted as "sea duty"! In the end, all good! Not treeless. Lots and lots of trees! During the Korean War my Dad visited Midway... well his sqdr'n did... and when I recv'd my orders, he said, "...you'll LOVE it there, there's a native girl behind every tree... too bad there're no trees left!" But some 20 years later, LOTS of trees. I have "1,000s" of pics, if I remember, I'll scan some the next time I'm home.

...A few brave men gutting the world's most powerful navy.

Not so. Even without our battleships, we defeated them. If our carriers had been in Pearl on 12/7/41... then it'd been a much different war. (IMO).

[gak]

Not treeless. Lots and lots of trees! During the Korean War my Dad visited Midway... well his sqdr'n did... and when I recv'd my orders, he said, "...you'll LOVE it there, there's a native girl behind every tree... too bad there're no trees left!" But some 20 years later, LOTS of trees. I have "1,000s" of pics, if I remember, I'll scan some the next time I'm home.

That's interesting, would love to see the pics. Was going off some documentaries and "nature" program focused on the unique bird situation there, which depicted a pretty feature-and tree-less landscape.

[El Chivo]

...A few brave men gutting the world's most powerful navy.

Not so. Even without our battleships, we defeated them. If our carriers had been in Pearl on 12/7/41... then it'd been a much different war. (IMO). [/quote]

Griff you don't quite make sense. Their navy was considered the most powerful in the world at the time, and I wanted to point out that it came down to a handful of aviators going into the thick of it to change that. Battleships were almost irrelevant in the Pacific war.

I had always wondered why we didn't sink more ships after their carriers went down, as the remaining ships would not have had air cover. I read some good stuff on Wikipedia about that. Apparently we did pursue the Japanese ships over the next few days, but only sank one cruiser. Also, since other Japanese task forces were around, Nimitz couldn't be sure that some battleships or cruisers would pop up and find our carriers and attack them with gunfire.

One important part about this loss for Japan was their inability to replace big ships quickly. They just couldn't do it, whereas we could. Heck, all but 3 of the ships sunk at Pearl Harbor were salvaged and put back into service.

[bdhold]

After Midway, it was the gradual destruction of their merchant fleet by our submarines that starved them as an army and a nation.
There was not another naval battle in the war until the Battle of Philippine Sea and that was our light cruisers and escort carriers against their remaining battle fleet, after Halsey foolishly took our main fleet chasing their diversion.

[Griff]

El Chivo,

Yes, they had the largest presence in the Pacific, but total naval strength? I'd never read that. My point was, they couldn't have been the most powerful, as they ultimately lost. At the time of the Battle of Midway, yes they were, and as you say those pilots were courageous. And, yes again, you're correct, battleships were not very effectual in the Pacific. The Japanese far exceeded their supply chain and they would have needed even more damage @ Pearl Harbor to have won. I agree, it was the carriers with their Navy and Marine pilots that overshadowed other elements in the Pacific. And I don't mean that to detract from what the land units and the Army Air Corps ultimately accomplished.

[turnkey]

My favorite book on Midway is Barrett Tillman's "DAUNTLESS". Though a work of fiction, I think it really gives you a feel of what those young pilots went through. I recommend it highly.

[awp101]

B25 and a Japanese destroyer off Formosa, April 1945:


So it's not Midway related. I still think it's appropriate...

[Griff]

That's interesting, would love to see the pics. Was going off some documentaries and "nature" program focused on the unique bird situation there, which depicted a pretty feature-and tree-less landscape.

Go to Google Earth, type in "Midway Island". The view is from 2007 and much changed from '71 when I last saw it; but, much the same also. It lies @28º 12' 33.97" N by 177º 22' 31.00" W. The highest point IIRC was 58'. There were no airstrips on Eastern Island, and Sand Island only had the one. You'll be abe to see the shadows of trees and some buildings. No cars, everyone rode bikes.

Here's a pic of my wife on mine during her visit. A 20" Schwinn I painted, extended the forks and had to fill with lead so the front wheel would stay on the ground!

And one of some youthful lookin' kid she sez is me!

[gak]

Go to Google Earth, type in "Midway Island". The view is from 2007 and much changed from '71 when I last saw it; but, much the same also. It lies @28º 12' 33.97" N by 177º 22' 31.00" W. The highest point IIRC was 58'. There were no airstrips on Eastern Island, and Sand Island only had the one. You'll be abe to see the shadows of trees and some buildings. No cars, everyone rode bikes.

Cool, I've been Googling Midway today.

[DixieBoy]

Bulldog's right that our "Silent Service" did most of the damage to the Japanese ability to wage war, and sustain their far flung outposts after Midway. But ... I'd qualify the statement that "there were no naval battles after Midway until the Phillipine campaign and The Battle of Leyte Gulf."

The Japanese beat us up pretty badly in several naval engagements off Guadalcanal in the later part of 1942. The Battle of Savo Island and one other I can't remember the name of now taught us that the Japanese had developed skill at rangefinding for use with their naval gunnery, and at night, in several engagements where we got beat up pretty badly. Their long lance torpedo was especially nasty and effective. Then there was the Battle of the Java Sea. The Brits would be surprised to hear us talking about "no naval engagements" after Midway (till Leyte Gulf).

For you guys who enjoy a really good read about the war in the Pacific from a fighting ship perspective find a book titled Japanese Destroyer Captain. My Dad gave me my copy, and being that he was on a destroyer in the Pacific from early 1943 through the end of 1944, he found it fascinating. It is an extraordinary book, and you get it on amazon in paperback for just a few dollars. Excellent read from the enemy's viewpoint. - DixieBoy

[Hawkins]

The best nonfiction book about Midway is Gordon Prang's "Miracle at Midway". The Japanese had an overwhelming force arrayed against a small American fleet, and Prang lays out in detail the code breaking, the Japanese mistakes, and the heroism and bravery that led to our victory. Also, an excellent book about the carrier Enterprise, covering most of the naval engagements in the Pacific theater, is Commander Edward Stafford's "The Big E".

There were several major engagements between Midway and the Phillipine Sea. There was constant action near Guadalcanal and Iron Bottom Sound, including carrier action in the Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz, and one of the few battleship against battleship fights in the Pacific.

Hawkins

[J35]

There were several major engagements between Midway and the Phillipine Sea. There was constant action near Guadalcanal and Iron Bottom Sound, including carrier action in the Eastern Solomons and Santa Cruz, and one of the few battleship against battleship fights in the Pacific.

Hawkins

Yep-- Just google BB56, -- My father was on that ship.

2009 i was at the Maguire Va emergency room with my father and met a fellow that was on the Yorktown at Midway.

Have fun

[Ben_Rumson]

And they called it the Miracle @ Midway because....Serendipity is what let us get the enemy flattops at the height of their vulnerability... Two flights of our planes sent by different carriers each arrived from different directions simultaneously by coincidence...one high & one low by coincidence .... The extremely effective enemy AA couldn’t concentrate their fire as it had when downing everything we sent at them before.... Most of the enemy air cover fighters were down refueling re arming and trying to take off... Their other planes were sitting on deck full of fuel and air crew...bombs and torpedoes scattered about...The rest is history... Along with not being able to produce ships at our rate... the enemy couldn’t produce a quality pilot as fast as we could...The likes of the highly trained ones that we sent up in smoke that day were never to been seen again by the Imperial Navy....

[Ji in Hawaii]

And they called it the Miracle @ Midway because....Serendipity is what let us get the enemy flattops at the height of their vulnerability... Two flights of our planes sent by different carriers each arrived from different directions simultaneously by coincidence...one high & one low by coincidence .... The extremely effective enemy AA couldn’t concentrate their fire as it had when downing everything we sent at them before.... Most of the enemy air cover fighters were down refueling re arming and trying to take off... Their other planes were sitting on deck full of fuel and air crew...bombs and torpedoes scattered about...The rest is history... Along with not being able to produce ships at our rate... the enemy couldn’t produce a quality pilot as fast as we could...The likes of the highly trained ones that we sent up in smoke that day were never to been seen again by the Imperial Navy....

Amen, a whole lot of bad luck plagued the Japs in this battle that they could never recover from especially the loss of their top pilots.

When I think about the inferior planes the US had at the time I cringe yet it makes me admire the courage of US pilots even more.

Chance-Vought SB2U Vindicator (aka Vibrator)


Brewster F-2A Buffalo (aka Flying Barrel)