The Mountain Men

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:33 pm

Just got to thinking about the Mountain Man of the 1820s to 1840s. I know a little and thought I'd bring-up this subject so maybe some of you could tell me some things I don't know. Perhaps some of you participate in Mountain Man types of 'shindigs.'

I think I have the time period pretty accurate and I believe during this period beaver hats, etc. were popular, therefore fur prices were up and money to be made out West where most of the beaver lived. Around 1840 the demand lessened considerably and that was about the end of the Mountain Men.

I recall a movie starring Charleton Heston as a Mountain Man. Pretty good movie but I've forgotten it's name or title. Robert Redford also played a Mountain Man in a movie and I can't remember it's name. Perhaps Jedidiah Smith or at least I believe that's who he portrayed.

I believe the Hawkins rifle with octogen bbl and 50 cal was one of the more popular guns of the Mountain Men. Could be wrong. Of course their guns were flintlocks during that time period.

A couple of Mountain Men that come to mind are Hugh Glass and Jedidiah (sp?) Smith. Was it Hugh Glass who was mauled by a grizzly and left for dead but crawled a long distance, received help and survived? I'm guessing the mauling was a result of either poor shooting or guns not as powerful as they needed to be for grizzlies.

African hunting author Peter Capstick tells a story in one of his books about a Mountain Man who was with a buddy and somehow they became desparate for food. His buddy died and he was forced to eat a greater or lesser portion of his friend. When asked about this experience Capstick said he replied: S...........meats, meat!
Capstick illustrating the toughness of the Mountain Man.

Welcome corrections and additions to this.

Don

LGS · Post by **LGS** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:43 pm

Movie with Charleton Heston and Brian Keith - Mountian Men. Great movie. Robert Redford was in Jeramih Johnson. My cousin is big into the re-inactment of 1750 to mid 1800 moutian men. He says the most populer rifle caliber from this time was a .40 caliber. Lead and powder was very expensive in those days.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:49 pm

The movie with Charlton Hesston and Brian Keith is "Mountain Men". The movie with Robert Redford is "Jeremiah Johnson". I love both of those movies. They were a different breed and tough as nails. It would of been a very challenging life.

My brother, RIP, was born two hundred years late. He was as close to a mountain man as any man I've known or met. One summer he and a buddy thinned trees and lived pretty much off the land except for a few staples. I pulled into their place once with some beer, sugar, salt, pepper, etc.. and there hanging in camp was a bear skinned out. We drank beers and ate bear. He was different that's for sure.

Can't answer the firearm question. I do believe most carried a substantial blade on them because it was always loaded and you only had one shot with your longarm if things were getting "interesting". I always carry a substantial blade on me when I'm woods walking. Things happen as quickly now as they did then.

RustyJr · Post by **RustyJr** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:05 pm

The movie that you are thinking of with Charleton Heston was called "The Mountain Men". The one with Robert Redford was "Jeremiah Johnson". As to the preferred long gun of the mountain men, not sure how popular the Hawken was. I know in the movie Jeremiah Johnson the writers said you couldnt do no better but not sure historically how popular they were. I think they were cap guns mostly. Trade guns were pretty popular. They essentially were a shotgun. I think .62 caliber (20ish gauge) was pretty popular. Gave them the option of shooting small game or large. Some also carried primitive bows and arrows to use when they were wanting to keep a low profile. Im sure someone else will come along who knows more than me.

RustyJr

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:11 pm

I beleive 40 was more of an eastern thing, the plains and mountains required heavier calibers. Much was made of the "50 caliber Hawken" in the Jeremiah Johnson movie, but he actually used a 56 I believe. His gun is in the Cody museum. 50 was common, and 52, 54 and 56 weren't uncommon. A 50 only throws a 180 gr ball, a 52 a 200 gr, a 54 a 220 gr. I don't know what weight ball a 40 throws, but it isn't very heavy, and would be more suited for deer than buffalo, bear and elk. There are a number of Hawken and other plains rifles in the Cody museum, I haven't seen or heard of any less than 50 cal.

Percussion was quite common after it became available. Most of the true Hawken guns were percusion, as were most other plains rifles. Yes, some felt flinters were not tied to supplies from the east,or were just reluctant to change, but they still needed lead and powder, traps, and other supplies, and had to sell their catch. Getting caps wasnt that big of an issue. Caps are more certain in varied conditons, and generally faster lock time to ignition.

Very interesting period, I admire the men that lived the life. When in the mountains, I like thinking about them, wondering what it would have been like then. It's a good feeling standing somewhere, looking out across the country, and knowing it looks exactly like it did then.

rustyguns · Post by **rustyguns** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:21 pm

Howdy friend
I have been burning black powder at Rendezvous since about 1994 here in Ca. Have had a lot of great memories, met a lot of great folks, One Rendezvous near West Point claims there have been rendezvous on that spot for over 170 yrs.
Folks who get involved with muzzle loaders love to learn about the history of this very colorful part of our past.
Flintlock and Percussion were in use, Percussion cap came into use in the 1820's but some folk didn't like the new method, caps were expensive and were harder to come by than flints.
The fur trade didn't last much more than 20 or so years but it was an interesting period

WyoShooter · Post by **WyoShooter** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:06 pm

I am not into black powder or the mountain man stuff but I live in a area rich in mountain man history. The movie Mountain Men was filmed on Togwotee Pass in the Dubois Wyoming area about a hundred miles to the west of where I live and on down into the valley of the Teton Range. Kit Carson and Jim Bridger roamed this country.
Right in town where I live at the fork of the Wind River and the Popo Agie is a 1838 rendezvous site where they have an annual trade and shoot every summer around the 4th of July.
The South Pass of the Wind River range is fifty miles to my southwest. That's where Jim Bridger lead wagon trains along the Oregon Trail. This was the first big mountain range they had to cross heading west from the great plains. West and northwest of me is the Jackson Hole area and Yellowstone Park.

Here's a few pictures I took of the area I live close to where the movie The Mountain Men was filmed and where mountain lived.

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:23 pm

I think perhaps the biggest attraction--whether conscious or subconscious--of the Mountain Men is their personal freedom. No bosses, you come and go and do as you please. Of course there's no 'freedom' from obtaining food, clothing and shelter--no matter where or how you live. You're 'behold'in' to no man. I think this might be a line from one of the characters in the Heston movie. The guy who was ranting after being buried by the Indians with only his head sticking-up out of the ground.

Self-sufficiency is another attraction to this type of lifestyle--and the challenge it presents.

I asked Dick Proenneke one time what was the most important thing he derived from his life in the Alaskan wilderness and he replied, personal freedom.

Be going over to visit with his brother Raymond in Hemet, CA in a day or two. Dick was a bachelor and had savings and believe his brother Raymond had an investment advisor who made them both some pretty good money during the big bull market in the 80s and 90s. Not at all the same as having to truly live off the land. However Dick could have done that as well as anybody.

Don

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:28 pm

Outstanding pictures Malamute and Wyoshooter.

Kinda makes you want to get your gun and 'walk right in' to one of those pictures--and stay for awhile.

Came back to this to add a couple of links to very interesting articles at the Wikipedia site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mountain_Men

Just read about Hugh Glass. He WAS the man left for dead after being attacked by a mommy grizzly. Amazing survival story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_man

Don

gak · Post by **gak** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:38 pm

I believe Jeremiah Johnson started out with a .30 or so "...weren't no .50 but it was a genuine Hawken" or some such was his comment. He later got a .50--maybe from the frozen hands of Hatchet Jack?--and made mention of it. Here you go:
Intro and mention of .30 Hawken (Edit--better/longer clip):
rtsp://v3.cache7.c.youtube.com/CjgLENy73wIaLwlxdb4m6cWvBRMYESARFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSB3Jlc3VsdHNg-veBsOSbnphODA==/0/0/0/video.3gp

Hatchet Jack and the.50.

rtsp://v7.cache2.c.youtube.com/CjgLENy73wIaLwnCOlGHxOq5fxMYESARFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSB3Jlc3VsdHNg-veBsOSbnphODA==/0/0/0/video.3gp

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:57 pm

I lived in Afton, Wy for a while working the surrounding area for a heli-portable seismic outfit back in about '82. That is some of the most beautiful country I've ever seen. I remember one time standing on a ridge after being dropped off that there couldn't of been many white men to stand right where I was standing. It was breathtaking. Unfortunately, I worked seven days a week, seven to seven. Didn't have much time to really look around.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:12 pm

In the book "The Hawken Rifle" the author said "there are no known real Hawken Flintlock rifles in existence".

.50 and up were the common bore sizes.

Machado · Post by **Machado** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:26 pm

Interesting reading on this subject is the book "Mountain Men", by Vardis Fisher. This was the book that inspired the movie "Jeremiah Johnson".
Antonio

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:41 pm

I was heavy into the muzzleloading scene back in the early 80's. At that time I met Leighton Baker who was talked about in "Foxfire #5" in the section where they wrote on muzzleloading rifles. Leighton was a retired state Rep. and owned a gun shop in Mt.Dora. He was also a direct descendant of the mountain man, Jim Baker. I have a book written by him about Jim Baker.
There were two kinds of trappers in the fur trade era. There were "company men" who worked for the fur companies and "free trappers" that were totally independent. Most carried trade guns which were about .62 cal smoothbores but there were also rifles in use as well. Cost was a major factor. A rifle other than a true Hawken was over twice the cost of a trade gun. A real Hawken could run 3 times the price of a trade gun.
When I started into the hobby the net wasn't as popular as it is now so the local public library was my main source of information. Jeremiah Johnson was based on the book by Vardis Fisher "Crow Killer." You might also want to check out "Across the Wide Misouri" by Benard DeVoto. There is also a group of books written by Allan W. Eckert that starts around the time of the F & I War and goes into the fur trade era.
Another good movie on the era is "The Big Sky" directed by Howard Hawks starring Kirk Douglas.

gak · Post by **gak** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:45 pm

See my Jeremiah Johnson Hawken updates in my first post, above

One of my all time favorite movies. Setting and cinematography still right up there.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:59 pm

The Allan Eckert books are about the best that I have ever read about the eastern frontiersmen. his book The Frontiersman is about Simon Kenton, a trapper and indian fighter. The book Crow Killer is the life of John "Liver eating" Johnston. He died in a V.A. home in California around 1912. Another good book of that period is The Big Sky by A.B. Gutherie, JR., agood novel of the mountainmen.
A book by John Baird (no kin to me) about the Hawken's Rifle is a well documented book.
Looks like Rusty beat me to it again, I will say he has fine taste in reading.

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:13 pm

"say, you ever find that valley? one that's always swarmin' with
beavers. where they run up on the banks and fight one another to
get in your traps. hollerin' take me bill tyler, take me! beaver as
many as stars in the sky." henry frapp [brian keith].

a favorite quote from a good movie.

now, where did i leave that time machine?

Marlin32 · Post by **Marlin32** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:39 pm

"...Blackfoot God (dang it)..."

WyoShooter · Post by **WyoShooter** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:42 pm

kimwcook wrote:I lived in Afton, Wy for a while working the surrounding area for a heli-portable seismic outfit back in about '82. That is some of the most beautiful country I've ever seen. I remember one time standing on a ridge after being dropped off that there couldn't of been many white men to stand right where I was standing. It was breathtaking. Unfortunately, I worked seven days a week, seven to seven. Didn't have much time to really look around.

My wife was born in Afton (Star Valley). We spend a lot of time up there in the summer and have a little place we park our camper about seven miles from Alpine up toward the base of Stewart Peak. It is a beautiful place indeed.

Here's one for you.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:19 pm

While I was there I stayed in an upstairs apartment over a bar that overlooked the antler bridge. I was always afraid some drunk cowboy was going to start shooting through the roof of the bar and send bullets up through the floor. Never happened, but I still thought about it. I've got a funny story about a handgun and that apartment, but it'll wait.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:56 am

The 30 cal Hawken was movie funny business (never could figure out why). I've never heard of that small of a caliber in a Hawken, I don't believe they ever made any. It was considered a squirrel rifle in the east.

Gobblerforge · Post by **Gobblerforge** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:07 am

I think the Jerimia Johnson movie was to take place in the late 1860s. A little later than the Mountain Man time frame.
Gobbler

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:44 am

The Jeremiah Johnson movie was loosely based on "Liver-eating" Johnson... fictionalized and set in the late 1840's. Look at his uniform Do a Google search on J & S Hawken, you'll come up with many references on "Hawken" rifles. Some research shows that percussion caps were moving well to the fore in the late 1820s, and were a LOT more prevalent than many previously suspected, (based on fur trade company inventory lists).

One of the many was this one: Sublette-Beale Hawken.

My replica was made by Uberti, it is a copy of one that resides in the Santa Fe Museum... a .53 caliber example.

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:07 am

Get a copy of Osborn Russel's journal. An educated mountain man who kept a journal of his life. Pretty unique stuff and makes great reading.

I live in northeast Oklahoma and have spent a lot of time in the J. M. Davis Museum in Claremore. The curator at one time told me that most of the rifles in there (there are hundreds) were 40 caliber with 1 in 48 twist which sounds about right for a 40 but too fast for a 50 round ball. A lot (probably most) of the flinters were converted to cap lock after caps became readily available.

My personal front stuffer is a Hawken copy with all iron furniture like the originals only I replaced the barrel with a Green Mountain bullet barrel and after getting old I even put a scope on it. Have actually killed a buck with it at 200 yards, measured with a wheel type counter.

Udy · Post by **Udy** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:12 pm

M. M. Wright wrote:Get a copy of Osborn Russel's journal. An educated mountain man who kept a journal of his life. Pretty unique stuff and makes great reading.
.

+1 The title is called Journal of a Trapper

Any one that wants to get a real acount of the mountian mans life this is it. It does not read like a story, but is written as Mr. Osborne Russell kept his journal durring nine years in the rocky mountians trapping in the years of 1834-43. Some parts are rather boring, but shows the day to day life he led. When on occasion something exciting happend he made more talk of it, and elaborated a bit more, like grizz attacks and indian attacks and such. Really puts into perspective how simple and yet HARD of a life it was. Comes along with some history involved as well and names he met along the way you may recognize like mr. Bridger, Eldbidge Trask, McLaughlin, Joseph Meek, ect. I think the full text can be found online, but I like to have a book in my hand to read as I have time to flip through it.

Some one else pointed out already, but I think the majority of trappers were not free trappers, I could be wrong, but from the different readings I've done on the subject I kinda think most were company men, mostly due to the fact that a feller needs help from time to time. Imagine trying to truly live alone on the land for years on end, that would be quite a task between the snow, food, lodging, travel, indians, and mean critters. Not impossible, but I think most went out in teams of a few men and met back up with the fort on occasion to cashe hides and regroup/get supplies etc.

Link to book on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Journal-Trapper-O ... 0803251661

cover decription:

'Reader, if you are in search of a Classical and Scientific tourist, please to lay this 'volume' down, and pass on, for this simply informs you what a Trapper has seen and experienced. But if you wish to peruse a Hunter's rambles among the wild regions of the Rocky Mountains, please to read this and forgive the authors foibles and imperfections, considering as you pass along that he has been chiefly educated in Nature's School under that rigid tutor experience...' Born in a little Maine village in 1814, Osborne Russell ran away to sea at the age of sixteen, but he soon gave up seafaring to serve with a trading and trapping company in Wisconsin and Minnesota. In 1834 he signed up for Nathaniel Wyeth's expedition to the Rocky Mountains and the mouth of the Columbia. Subsequently he joined Jim Bridger's brigade of old Rocky Mountain Fur Company men, continuing with them after a merger that left the American Fur Company in control of the trade.When the fur trade declined, he became a free trapper operating out of Fort Hall, staying in the mountains until the great Westward migration began. Osborne Russell's journal covering the years 1834 to 1843 is, in the words of editor Aubrey L.Haines, 'perhaps the best account of the fur trapper in the Rocky Mountains when the trade there was at its peak. It is a factual, unembellished narrative written by one who was not only a trapper but also a keen observer and an able writer'. Edited from the original manuscript and originally printed in a limited edition of 750 copies, this classic piece of Western Americana is now available to the general public.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:34 pm

Gobblerforge wrote:I think the Jerimia Johnson movie was to take place in the late 1860s. A little later than the Mountain Man time frame.
Gobbler

He would have been returning from The Mexican War Gobblerforge, ca. 1847-8.
I've heard different things, that he was in the Navy for one(the real liver eatin Johnson)' and another that he did not serve at all.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:48 am

kimwcook wrote:...I've got a funny story about a handgun and that apartment, but it'll wait.

No it won't. Let's have it!

Gobblerforge · Post by **Gobblerforge** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:24 am

C. Cash wrote:
Gobblerforge wrote:I think the Jerimia Johnson movie was to take place in the late 1860s. A little later than the Mountain Man time frame.
Gobbler
He would have been returning from The Mexican War Gobblerforge, ca. 1847-8.
I've heard different things, that he was in the Navy for one(the real liver eatin Johnson)' and another that he did not serve at all.

I wasn't aware of the Mex American war time frame. I just recall towards the early part of the film Johnson had on striped sided military pants and I always asumed it was from being in the civil war. Grey I think the pants were. Bear Claw mentions that he "must have missed another war down there" and Johnson says "Didn't miss nothin".
Gobbler

t.r. · Post by **t.r.** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:27 pm

If you enjoy reading, you'll love Give Your Heart to the Hawks which is about the mountain men and their adventures. Lord Grizzley is about Hugh Glass and his ordeal.

TR

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:18 pm

Interesting Thread! Thanks.

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:29 pm

Also thought is was just after the Mexican War with the firearms being used. 50 caliber made sense. Just enough for the big stuff and not waste powder and lead. The concept of use enough gun didn't exist yet

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:59 am

Another interesting author from the early 1800's is George Frederick Ruxton. He was an Englishman who spent time in a Spanish army and fought in Spain. He traveled with two mountain men in the west. He spent some time in Colorado and New Mexico. He wrote about his adventures for periodicals so they are in serial form. The stories have been gathered into various books, one being Ruxton of the Rockies. You can sample his writings here:http://user.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/ruxton.html George led an adventurous life and died young. He was 28 years old IIRC.

My uncle had one of his books when I was a youngster and I read it then. I don't know which version it was but I was fascinated.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:12 am

Third vote for Osborne Russell's "Journal of a Trapper, [1834-1843]". Have a copy sitting right here. Hard reading at times for it has very little editing done to it and it's amazing what a little puncuation can do (or I should say lack there of).

At one point in the journal they (3 of them IIRC) have their gear and horses lifted by the Crow and have to hoof it out from the yellowstone area to what is now Nebraska with not much more than their knives. Now that I think about it they may of had one rifle. Good reading.

LK

Fiddler · Post by **Fiddler** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:34 pm

One thing I've wondered about the mountain men.
Did they walk right over thousands of gold nuggets while they were setting their traps in mountain streams which later became the scene of prospecting and mining stampedes?
Did they not see the gold under their feet? I would find that hard to believe.
Did they ignore the gold under their feet?

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:36 pm

Fiddler wrote:One thing I've wondered about the mountain men.
Did they walk right over thousands of gold nuggets while they were setting their traps in mountain streams which later became the scene of prospecting and mining stampedes?
Did they not see the gold under their feet? I would find that hard to believe.
Did they ignore the gold under their feet?

Fiddler,

I expect finding gold may not be as easy as you'd think. Well....enough to live on year after year--let alone lots of it.

No doubt many of us have been near significant amounts of gold but didn't know it. I've thought, what a shame, it's there somewhere. Finding it's the catch. I found some "fools gold" one time.

Don

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:23 am

If they weren't looking for gold, they likely would not find it. Even those looking don't always see it when they are around it. Looking would mean panning for it to find it amidst the sand, dirt gravel etc. Meaningful amounts of gold can still take time to find and collect when actively looking for it.

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:33 am

If they had found gold, there likely wouldn't have been much of a "mountain man" era, as there would have been a much earlier gold rush and the desolate land would have been much more crowded. I don't know, maybe it wouldn't have made much of a difference, but gold fever attracts a lot of people. There would have been more people hunting game. Likely we would have had the Army there to combat indian raids that would have escalated with the movement of more settlers, etc.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:42 pm

Malamute wrote:The 30 cal Hawken was movie funny business (never could figure out why). I've never heard of that small of a caliber in a Hawken, I don't believe they ever made any. It was considered a squirrel rifle in the east.

IIRC, it was referred to as a "30 Hawken", as in "thirty(balls)-to the-pound" (old measurement) Hawken rifle - a .50-.53 caliber.

.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:43 pm

Here's a website dedicated to the mountain men: http://www.mman.us/index.htm

.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:04 pm

Did a search, Journal of a Trapper online:

http://user.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/h ... lintr.html

Not sure if it's complete but at first glance it appears the same as my book.

LK

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:09 pm

Pete44ru wrote:
Malamute wrote:The 30 cal Hawken was movie funny business (never could figure out why). I've never heard of that small of a caliber in a Hawken, I don't believe they ever made any. It was considered a squirrel rifle in the east.
IIRC, it was referred to as a "30 Hawken", as in "thirty(balls)-to the-pound" (old measurement) Hawken rifle - a .50-.53 caliber.

.

I thought they had refered to it as "a .30 caliber, but dang if it wasnt a genuine Hawken", and made a big deal out of Hatchet Jacks being a .50. I may be mistaken tho.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:18 pm

Pete, thanks for the link. Looks like a lot of good reading.

gak · Post by **gak** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:35 pm

Malamute wrote: I thought they had refered to it as "a .30 caliber, but dang if it wasnt a genuine Hawken", and made a big deal out of Hatchet Jacks being a .50. I may be mistaken tho.

Yes, you're right, see my posted clips earlier in this thread.

gak · Post by **gak** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:25 pm

(I hadn't seen this movie listed/discussed in this thread yet. If it was, my apologies).

Heads up/warning/recommendation of a do-pass-on 2011 movie "Meek's Cutoff"--a tale of a small group of settlers-to-be wagoning westward in 1845, misled to a shortcut along the Oregon Trail, accompanied by a "mountain man" scout, and thus finding themselves hopelessly lost. IMO, be not swayed by the following (linked) writer's vote to praise the "artistry," winning out over a "watching paint grow" characterization. I'm decidedly of the latter view.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/22 ... f-20110422

Had the film been shot better--especially the very poorly lit night/campfire scenes (a try at realism gone too far?) and audio listenable--impossible to discern conversation--I might have bitten on the idea that this was the filmakers' intent: a starkly minimalist take on what it must've really been like. Problem is, it perhaps was too successful. Minimalist is right. Minimalist acting, sound, story, characters. The only thing left that you might appreciate is its utterly honest portrayal of a hopelessly sparse landscape--appropriate to the story line. No snow capped Cascade Mountains bekoning in the distance here! This is the American plains and Great Basin emptiness at its least inviting deariness. You do come away with an appreciation for "good grief, what our ancestors endured..."

I list this here as it is germane to the subject and, no judgment here

, you just might find it your cup o' tea! Different films can be that way with different folk! Now that you're intrigued...

Les Staley · Post by **Les Staley** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:54 pm

I apreciate knowing the title of the book on Hugh Glass .. Lord Grizzley... Richard Harrris played in a movie loosely based on the Hugh Glass story.. Man in the Wilderness.. I have watched it several times.. a 40 cal round ball weighs 90 grains. I wouldn't use one on deer .. built mine with a 42" Green Mountain barrel. slow twist, 1 in 70 inches I believe.. 30 gr. of FFF and a little FFFF in the pan.. death on grey squirrels.. Les

Bosco · Post by **Bosco** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:47 am

If one likes this type of reading and also the time period I suggest
"Company of Adventures" and "Cesars of the Wilderness" by Peter C.Newman. Serious readers only need apply. The story of the Hudson Bay Company. Great stuff on the voyagers! These books are out of print and hard to find, but outstanding North American history.

Old Shatterhand · Post by **Old Shatterhand** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:31 pm

WyoShooter wrote:
kimwcook wrote:I lived in Afton, Wy for a while working the surrounding area for a heli-portable seismic outfit back in about '82. That is some of the most beautiful country I've ever seen. I remember one time standing on a ridge after being dropped off that there couldn't of been many white men to stand right where I was standing. It was breathtaking. Unfortunately, I worked seven days a week, seven to seven. Didn't have much time to really look around.
My wife was born in Afton (Star Valley). We spend a lot of time up there in the summer and have a little place we park our camper about seven miles from Alpine up toward the base of Stewart Peak. It is a beautiful place indeed.

OT- "Afton" is swedish for "evening". I don't know, however, it that has something to do with the town.

Interesting thread, and really great photos!

Pete

willygene · Post by **willygene** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:30 pm

kimwcook my family owns land on the hoback a mile south of the the snake i was there in 82 and 83 while the siezmic exploration was going on we took many flights with helicopter pilots i spent several years in jackson and over in victor and driggs idaho great place just to expensive to stay in.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:42 pm

Willy, I didn't get much time to look around. Working seven days a week, 12 hours a day didn't leave me much time to do anything but work. Beautiful, beautiful country. I just wish I'd of had more time to really explore.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:26 am

In 1961 I worked for the NPS in grand tetons. We went to jackson a lot. Loved that country, one of the best times of my life.