Browning Mod 92 and Keith SWC's

[Old Ranger]

Just laid my hands on a stunning '81 production Browning 92 in .44mag. Now here's my question for you folks that shoot similar weapons. I had loaded tons of rounds for my old Smiths using the 250 Lyman Keith SWC with 21 gr of 2400. My old 4" and 6 1/2" ate them up and were super accruate. Now, with the longer barrel, no gas escaping from a cylinder gap, etc., given the same load in the 92, is it possible that leading may occur by having a single lube groove? My old Lyman 450 has do heater and thus I'm limited to such as the NRA formula lube. I haven't had a chance to shoot this weapon yet, so I may just be thinking out loud here. The first owner must have shot only jacketed stuff as I was pulling copper fouling for quite sometime when I got the weapon home! The bore is shinny and bright with no pitting, dark spots, and such. I figure that there is a possibility I 'might' get some leading out of this load, but if any of you have fired similar and such, I'd appreciate any info you might have.

Thanks,
Wade

[Newtmaker]

It will depend mostly on the lead hardness and the pressure of your loads. In my 357 revolver and Ross 92 lever in 357 I have found that most moderate loads with lead bullets don't cause significant leading in either gun. Actually, the only loads that I have had leading problems with were wadcutter loads using very soft lead at very low or very high pressures. In between loads were not a problem. I don't shoot the flat wadcutters in the Rossi but it really like the flat point "cowboy rounds" at around 1200 to 1500 fps.

Walt

[Leverluver]

My 92 Browning would not feed the 44 mag case loaded with the Keith loaded to crimp in the crimp groove due to bullet shape as well as OAL If the bullet was loaded as short as possible and the bullet then crimped as far forward on the front driving band as possible, you "might" get away with it. Even so it will feed poorly compared to a more rounded nose bullet loaded to the correct (~1.6") OAL. I was able to come up with a workable solution by loading in the 44 Spec case but the flat nose still did not feed smoothly and your loadings and performance expectations will have to be reduced. That's the history with my rifle; others may be different.

[Old Ranger]

Here I was worrying about leading. But now that you mention it, the OAL of that cartridge is a stretch with that round. It's been a while since I loaded them as I no longer have any of my .44's , but there's a dandy 4 cavity Lyman mould in my gear. I was just thinking I had it made. Oh well, there's lots of other moulds available. I was just thinking I could use the Keith as it did so well in my pistols.

Thanks guys....

[Malamute]

That's my favorite bullet in my pistols also. The Browning doesn't feed them in magnum cases, but there is a way to do it. The gun can be modified, but I havent done it yet. Keith wrote of it being done on originals years ago.

As I understand it, the carrrier stop (what stops the cartridge as it comes out of the magazine) nees to be cut back slightly, and I believe the bottom edge of the ejector needs to be clearanced also.

I've had good results with 44 spl cases feeding the Lyman/Keith bullet, but that's not what I want to do with it. I carry and use the gun very little, partly since it doesnt use the same loads as my pistol.

[J Miller]

Regarding the leading:
I don't own a .44 mag rifle, but I do own a couple lever guns in .45 Colt. In those I've found I can shoot the Ruger -T/C level loads, even the Lyman 454424 K-SWC with the small grease groove cast from wheel weights without any leading.
As long as the bullet is .001 to .002" over the groove diameter of the barrel all is OK.

As for the feeding of Keith bullet loads, take the rifle to a lever gun knowledgeable gunsmith and have him modify the action to work with them. Skip the 44 spcl cases and use the proper ammo you already have loaded.
That is what I had to do with my Rossi 92 in order for it to feed full length Keith loads. Once it was tuned for the Keith bullet loads it fed everything else much better too.

Joe

[Old Ranger]

Well, I got home before the light was too bad to shoot and the rain had let up, so I hopped ou to my range and blasted off ten rounds of some old "gunshow" ammo I had. They were some shorter 240 SWC's. Feeding was a not too bad. The weapon fired sweet and I love that gentle nudge that resembles recoil! Just blasted them off at 25 yds standing to get the feel of the piece. I like it

But I can see where some more rounded bullets will be the order of the day with this weapon. That's ok. I can deal with that and get a mould that will be better suited for this rifle.

Guys, thanks a bunch as I didn't load up any with the Keith's and that saved me a lot of bullet pulling! As always, you folks are there for all of us and that is what makes this oldman happy!

Wade

[Machado]

Wade, I shoot the Lyman 429421 245 out of my Rossi 92 often. It has a 24" barrel and I get ~1600 fps using 19.5 grains of old Blue Dot. It goes bang good and the crescent buttplate was ergonomically designed to whack and bruise my shoulder. I cast the bullets @ BHN 23, push a styrofoam gas check over the powder, size the bullet to .430 and I get no leading. No cycling problems. Accuracy stinks. Same load works well in my Redhawk and is VERY accurate in my 10" Contender, however exceedingly unpleasant in the latter gun. Somebody said that I am pushing the envelope with this load, but what I don't know hasn't hurt me yet.

[Pitchy]

At least ya didn`t learn the hard way like i did and load the whole tube with 250`s and find out they won`t cycle.

[Old Ranger]

Machado,

Yes sir, I always viewed 17.5 of BlueDot as tops for that bullet in this cartridge. I'd say that your load is a bit over the top so to speak. That could explain why it is so unpleasent for you

My main old .44 was a S&W M29 4". That was my duty piece for some years before the department forced us to go to a .357mag. Then it was a 4" M28 and I used 170 Kieth SWCHP's with that one and a nice dose of 2400. That .357 load was fine in an older Marlin levergun and made things simple. That was the reason I wanted to use the Keith in the .44mag. However, I can see where using long SWC loads would make it difficult.

The loads I shot yesterday gave me a little trouble feeding, but not too bad. I'll shoot them up and use the brass to build me some RNFP's soon. I've had bad luck with Lee moulds, but there are a couple that Lyman makes that interest me. If not, I can always get them all set up to go from Meister Bullet. They make fantastic cast rounds and are afforadable. Even for an old retired cop like me! I shoot their 300 gr RNFP from my 45-70 with 15 gr of Unique. A gentle 1330 fps load that is a tack driver! Kills hogs on the spot too!

Well, it's getting warmer and the light is getting better too. Shucks, I'm off to my range out back to go shoot!!!

Adios,

Wade

[Old Ranger]

Howdy Pitchy!

Yes sir, I'm glad that I thought to ask here first before I cast up a bunch and loaded 'em! Sorry to hear that you had to find out the hard way. I bet the frustration level was way up there then huh? So what ya loading in you 92 nowadays? I'll bet you got a load dialed in that is perfect too. I sure like this Browning 92. It is 30 years old and has had less than a boxof ammo run in it. The thing is so tight. It really needs to be broken in! Oh well, its a tough job but somebody's got to do it right?

Thanks for the input pard.

Wade

[Pitchy]

Wade i don`t shoot the Browning much and if i do i just run factory jacketed hollow points in it. I have a Rosie that feeds anything so shoot that one when i carry a 44, but i`m having a love affair with my 1895 Cowboy 45-70 at the moment.

[Old Ranger]

I know how aditictive the 45-70 is. Been having a fulltime afair with that round since 1967! It is my absolute alltime favorite rifle round! In fact, I just installed a Williams Fire Sight up front last night that came from Brownells yesterday afternoon. I'm on my way tomy little range in my woods after I shut this thing down and zero the Marlin and then play with the Browning.

Now you go and have a good time with that Marlin Cowboy! My Marlin is an'09 Guide Gun, but it sure is a blast to shoot! (No pun intended) and the hogs at work hate me! (We shoot 'wm on sight!)

Thanks again for the replys and you have a good day sir!

Wade

[Pitchy]

Good shootin pard.

[mikld]

No Browning here, but a Puma (Rossi) M92. One of the first things I did with my Puma was to slug the bbl. Good thing I did, the groove diameter on mine measured .431" to .432" (ran about 4 slugs through and measured with my mics). I now use a Ranch Dog 265 rg. RNFP cast from wheel weight alloy (.432"+ as they come from the mold) and powered by a mid range load of Bluedot. Works great and will shoot all the way through a 24'x60' mobile home! I tried my 429421 unsized but they ran a little too long to cycle reliably (I could have crimped over the forward band or loaded in Special brass, but settled on the Ranch Dog bullet first).