Elk vs 308 WIN

[6pt-sika]

Any of you regular or semi regular elk/moose hunters had any experince taking them with a 308 WIN and say a 180 grain bullet .

Also I'm intrested to know the percieved recoil you feel , as I'm thinking of setting up a 308 WIN for a small woman to use on elk and or moose .

[6pt-sika]

I'd actually rather set her up with something in a 338 Federal but again the recoil will be a deciding factor be it 308 WIN or 338 Federal .

[jnyork]

If she can hit with the .308 and it doesn't make her flinch then that would be a great setup. A lot of the trick is in getting the stock to properly fit the individual so as to reduce the effect of recoil.

[harry]

150 to 165 would be better.
Harry

[Mike D.]

168 Barnes TSX will do the job nicely in the .308. Keep the range within reason, not over 200 yds and everything should be fine. When shooting at game recoil is seldom felt; it is more pronounced at the bench where you are often sitting in a less than comfortable position.

[DBCinID]

The 308 with a 180 gr bullet would be a very good combination for elk/moose. On a small framed woman the recoil could be kind of unpleasant depending on recoil pads and/or muzze brake. I know when I use 180 gr bullets in my 30-06 I definitely feel when it goes off and I am 185 lbs and fairly muscular (minimal recoil pad and no muzzle brake).

My $0.02 is that she should shoot something that she is very comfortable with and can shoot accurately. The bottom line is to get a well made bullet into the boiler room. I would much rather my wife shoot a 270 with a 150 gr bullet that she can drill tacks with than my 338 Win Mag with a 250 gr bullet that makes her flinch and she is scared of. The caveat of a lighter caliber and bullet is they don't have the penetration of the heavier bullets, so you need to be sure to go for heart/lung shots. With my 338, I like to take out the shoulders on elk and it has the knockdown power to do it. I did use my 30-06 with a 165 gr bullet on a moose once and while I killed it with one shot, the bullet fragmented badly. I shot a bit high and took out the spine, good news is that it dropped in its tracks. Bad news if I would gone for the shoulder I would have had a really crappy tracking job in the thick willows.

My $0.02 anyway.

[Blaine]

What's the range, Sir? I'm thinking one of your .444s maybe loaded down a RCH. If she's a good shot, and the range close, a 30wcf would be cool.

[6pt-sika]

I am working on the premis that she takes NO shots over 100 yards .

Also want a short semi light rifle . The 308 with a 165 Accubond or Interbond may not be a bad idea .

I am also considering a muzlle brake and or recoil reducer in the stock .

Might try and get a 308 set up with 150's for whitetails blackies and then see how she can handle 165's .

[Don McDowell]

165's work about the best in the 308.
My wife's blr gets it's best accuracy from the hornady 165 interloc bt's, and that combination has been deadly on elk out to 250 yds is about as far as she's shot one.

[6pt-sika]

What's the range, Sir? I'm thinking one of your .444s maybe loaded down a RCH. If she's a good shot, and the range close, a 30wcf would be cool.

Thats a thought !

I'm waiting for that Marlin 336-44 44 MAG to arrive that might be a good idea inside 100 yards with the Ranch Dog 432-300GC .

As to her shooting ablility thats not been broached yet , to the best of my knowledge she's never fired a gun of any kind !

Maybe I can back off the H322 with my MM/RD 432-325GC in my Retro 444P and that'll do the job inside 100 yards also . But it ain't light regardless of how you look at it !

[6pt-sika]

165's work about the best in the 308.
My wife's blr gets it's best accuracy from the hornady 165 interloc bt's, and that combination has been deadly on elk out to 250 yds is about as far as she's shot one.

You guys had any experience with the 308 and Bullwinkle ?

I got on this kick after watching one of the TV Super Hunters in Newfoundlad chasing moose .

[olyinaz]

Is 308 the only option? If you have access to a 6.5mm Mauser it's a legendary elk killer that is known for its mild recoil.

Oly

[tman]

Another + for the BLR .308. If you can kill an elk at 500 yards with a 300 magnum, A 308 will work out to 400 yards if u can shoot.

[pokey]

a 30wcf would be cool.

almost every elk i've killed has been with an old thutty-thutty,
because that's what was at hand.

a 6.5mm swede Mauser

another good suggestion.

[cshold]

Another + for the BLR .308. If you can kill an elk at 500 yards with a 300 magnum, A 308 will work out to 400 yards if u can shoot.

Agree, the 08 is only about 80fps behind the famous big long cased 06

[Marlin32]

I would say the 180's would be fine. I do not notice extra recoil from 165 to the 180's or the 200's. But that is me not her.

Are there reduced recoil loads in 308? If she shot them while "practicing" and then slip the 180's in for the hunt, she will never know. The TSX might not be bad idea either. I saw the results of a deer shot with a 7mm-08 and the TSX and I have to admit I was impressed.

35 Remington should do the trick at that distance too, but at 100yards, the 32 special would fit the bill as well? 300 Savage?

[6pt-sika]

a 30wcf would be cool.

almost every elk i've killed has been with an old thutty-thutty,
because that's what was at hand.

a 6.5mm swede Mauser

another good suggestion.

I washed my hands of 30-30's a couple years ago .

And as to the 6.5x55 I'd be okay with that but I already have a 260 REM that "could possibly" be used for that with the Nosler 140 grain Partition . Which leads me to possibly consider the 7mm-08 in a short left handed Remington Model 7

[Don McDowell]

165's work about the best in the 308.
My wife's blr gets it's best accuracy from the hornady 165 interloc bt's, and that combination has been deadly on elk out to 250 yds is about as far as she's shot one.

You guys had any experience with the 308 and Bullwinkle ?

I got on this kick after watching one of the TV Super Hunters in Newfoundlad chasing moose .

Not much experience with moose, a cousin of mine drew a permit back around 72 or 73, and he had no problem filling his tag with his savage 99 that he shot 150's out of for everything.
Some of these bulls that Carol has whacked with her blr carcass at 400 lbs, and there's no doubt about them being hit, so I can't imagine a moose would be much more trouble.

[6pt-sika]

Can't see me buying any 30-30's , 32 Specials , 35 REM's or 300 Savage's since I've already cleaned house of all that stuff once .

Davidson's did a special run of Ruger #1B's with 22" barrels in 338 Federal a year or so ago . That with a recoil reducer would be about perfect and it just so happens I already have a cut down #1 stock so I could fit it with a recoil reducer and a KickEez pad all the while reducing the LOP bu about 3/4 to 1 inch .

Ruger is also chambering the #1A in 308 WIN . I could possibly get one of those and use the already cut stock for her again with a recoil reducer !

Then there's the thought of finding a nice used Ruger #1A in 7x57 same scenario . Of course they made a limited run of them as well in 6.5x55 two years ago and still a few NIB for sale on GB .

If I'm not mistaken Jack O'Conner's wife Eleanore killed Elk and Moose with a 7x57 with a 150 grain bullet . So I don't see why that might not work again or the 308 with a 165 .

[6pt-sika]

Not much experience with moose, a cousin of mine drew a permit back around 72 or 73, and he had no problem filling his tag with his savage 99 that he shot 150's out of for everything.
Some of these bulls that Carol has whacked with her blr carcass at 400 lbs, and there's no doubt about them being hit, so I can't imagine a moose would be much more trouble.

My fiancee is about 5'2" and about 110-115 . How bad you think the standard 165 grain lods gonna thump her and again bear in mind she is a virgin to shooting any guns .

Now of course she'll have to shoot alotta paper and prove herself before I even let her try for a whitetail . But I'm curiouse about the thump factor .

I like shooting mag's in the Ruger #1's up to the 416 REM MAG so me personally is a poor judge of subjective recoil .

[DBCinID]

My personal experience is limited, killed a number of elk, but only one moose. From my experience, anecdotally from other hunters and observation of other moose being shot, while they are bigger they don't seem to "soak up" lead like an elk will. I would say that a well built bullet from a reasonably powered rifle through the heart/lungs will bring home the bacon.

My hunting buddy has a 16 year old daughter and a 13 year old son. He bought a 7mm-08 and both kids have taken deer and elk with it out to 200 yards. He said the recoil was very tolerable for both kids.

[6pt-sika]

My personal experience is limited, killed a number of elk, but only one moose. From my experience, anecdotally from other hunters and observation of other moose being shot, while they are bigger they don't seem to "soak up" lead like an elk will. I would say that a well built bullet from a reasonably powered rifle through the heart/lungs will bring home the bacon.

My hunting buddy has a 16 year old daughter and a 13 year old son. He bought a 7mm-08 and both kids have taken deer and elk with it out to 200 yards. He said the recoil was very tolerable for both kids.

I am thinking I need to get her a Ruger #1 in either a 6.5x55 , 7x57 or 308 preferrably in the #1A configuration and use the extra stock for her and I can use the original stock while working up loads and later if she doesn't like it or looses intrest !

I like the 7-08 plenty and have used it myself for maybe 20-26 deer . But being as she is a lefty I wanna get a #1 and they didn't make many #1's in 7-08 and when you see them they are kinda pricey .

[Don McDowell]

If it's a rifle like the BLR , something with a bit of heft to it, and fits her well she should be fine. She's about the same size as my wife.
Another option to think on is the 7x57 or 7mm08, have not used the 708 on elk, but the 7x57 works like a champ and isn't bad on recoil. Carol used her 7x57 on a couple of elk and whacked an muley buck at 500 yds, with it. She about shot me when I told her how far it was after the shot. I told her just to pull the crosshair up until she saw just a touch of daylight over his back and let it rip..... down he went....but she was still mad because I let her shoot beyond 250 yds.
One thing I might pass along from a fella I know that runs one of the biggest gunshops in Wyoming. He says he makes more money selling Remington model 7's in 308 than any other rifle. The reason is folks come in a buy their kids one , take it home and the thing is so light it makes the kids not want to shoot, so they bring it back and he sells it again on the used rack.....
Be careful going with to light of a rifle, and try to shy away from muzzle breaks, the increased muzzle blast from those can have devistating affects on a less experienced shooter.

[olyinaz]

My fiancee is about 5'2" and about 110-115 . How bad you think the standard 165 grain lods gonna thump her and again bear in mind she is a virgin to shooting any guns .

Now of course she'll have to shoot alotta paper and prove herself before I even let her try for a whitetail . But I'm curiouse about the thump factor .

I like shooting mag's in the Ruger #1's up to the 416 REM MAG so me personally is a poor judge of subjective recoil.

Well, I hate to say it, but I find very little difference between a .308 and a .30-06 (or 7.62x54r or .303 Brit) which is to say I think they kick pretty hard and she wont like it. My wife HATES bolt guns and wont shoot them anymore unless it's my Rem 700 in .223. I think you need to go down to 6.5mm Norwegian or .25-06 to get a significant reduction in recoil, but the 7mm Mauser is also pretty mild owing to it's very early design and mild pressures. Your .260 Rem will be just as lethal as the 6.5x55 with just a bit more recoil but less than a .308 and that's where I'd go if you already have one, but I don't know how you have that rifle set up. To me, 7mm-08 kicks exactly like .308 and I have no use for it when the .260 Rem exists.

One thing I'll bring up is that American made 8mm Mauser ammo is very mild. Noticeably less so than .308 or .30-06 factory loads, or even .303 Brit surplus ammo. If you have access to an 8mm Mauser you could stoke that baby with Federal or Remington 8mm ammo and get reduced recoil with still pretty heavy bullets, but even so I think they kick more than a 6.5mm. Surpluss Yugo sniper 8mm Mauser ammo will hammer you like a smack from Thor hisself! Don't use that stuff.

Cheers,
Oly

[6pt-sika]

One thing I might pass along from a fella I know that runs one of the biggest gunshops in Wyoming. He says he makes more money selling Remington model 7's in 308 than any other rifle. The reason is folks come in a buy their kids one , take it home and the thing is so light it makes the kids not want to shoot, so they bring it back and he sells it again on the used rack.....
Be careful going with to light of a rifle, and try to shy away from muzzle breaks, the increased muzzle blast from those can have devistating affects on a less experienced shooter.

Yep you are correct !

I have a Remington Model 7 stainless synthetic in 260 REM that I truely love to hunt with . But I "had" a pair of the same thing in 308 WIN's and undoubtedly they were the kickingest sonsab's u ever laid your hands on !

Also had one of the older Ruger 77RSI tang safety rifles in 308 that would rock you a bit !

Those Model 7's in 243 , 260 and 7-08 all seemed okay to me for shooting . I think with the added weight of a Ruger #1A she should be okay . And of course if she follows along with her shooting I can start with uhm lighter loads and get her more up to speed as time goes on . I've been wanting a Ruger #1A in 7x57 for awhile now . Or possibly one of the new #1A's in 6.5x55 possibly .

[Don McDowell]

Carol shot an antelope with my 1A in 06, and got along alright.
I've often thought a 1A in 7x57 might just be the ultimate in smokeless cartridge hunting rifles.

[6pt-sika]

Carol shot an antelope with my 1A in 06, and got along alright.
I've often thought a 1A in 7x57 might just be the ultimate in smokeless cartridge hunting rifles.

They brought it out this year in 6.5 Creedmoor !

For some reason that one calls me !

And she could still shoot the Nosler 140 Partition in it

We have no less then 5 guys at our local gunclub that are shooting 6.5 Creedmoor bench guns at the moment . Three are Svage factory HB's while the other two are complete full blown custom bench guns and they ALL shoot down in the .2" area at 100 yards . I am thinking with some carefull loading on my part and perhaps a Keplinger trigger I can possibly get a #1A to shoot easily inside 3/4" or maybe even 1/2" at 100 yards for 3 shots .
Keeping her inside 100 yards with that and the 140 Partition outta do the job on an elk or moose .

[6pt-sika]

Carol shot an antelope with my 1A in 06, and got along alright.
I've often thought a 1A in 7x57 might just be the ultimate in smokeless cartridge hunting rifles.

Well heck if your Mrs.'s can handle the 06 and I can get mine used to the 280 REM or 270 WIN I already have both of those in Ruger #1B's . Also have one in a 264 WIN MAG that she might be able to handle . Or even the 270 Weatherby

[Don McDowell]

My sisterinlaw, shoots a Ruger 77 in 264, but the muzzle blast off of that thing is hideous.
The mild mannered 7x57 in factory loads isn't enough behind the 280 to get worried about, and with some careful handloading it'll match the 280 stride for stride.
Women usually do best when they have their own rifle. Might not be a bad thing to take her to a good slobber shop and let her pick out her own rifle, and you can learn to live with the cartridge she chooses.

[dkmlever]

I have shot three elk with a 308 and been with a buddy that shot one also with a 308. The 308 round works well. One was even a "texas heart shot" at slightly over 200 yards, granted it was a yearling but still a nice sized elk. That one was with a BLR. The others were both lung/heart shots broadsided. I used the 180 gr bullets handloaded, he used Federal Fusion 165 gr. Recoil is stiff I used a Kimber Montana light weight rifle and he was using a Ruger light wieght.
I see you don't want to go back to the Savage but a 99 in 300 with the rifle weight really reduces recoil.

[6pt-sika]

Women usually do best when they have their own rifle. Might not be a bad thing to take her to a good slobber shop and let her pick out her own rifle, and you can learn to live with the cartridge she chooses.

Yeah I agree it's a good idea to get her something just for her !

However I am pretty sure she gonna say "what do you think" !

She's seen many many pics of Ruger #1's and seems to like them . So perhaps the 7x57 or 6.5x55 will be the way to go .

I already have a 257 Roberts #1B set aside for her to use once she gets here . Well after I get my extra shortened stock repadded of course .

[6pt-sika]

I see you don't want to go back to the Savage but a 99 in 300 with the rifle weight really reduces recoil.

No not really I had two of the 99's in 300 and another in 30-30 . I can't honestly say I was ever taken with any of the three although the oldest 99 in 300 was a TD and it sure liked 150 grain cast bullets !
That gun was made in the late 20's if my memory serves me .

[ollogger]

Got one for ya, Take the 280 with 175 gr. bullet & load it like a 7x57
its killed every thing on earth
back to the 308 ive shot 2 moose with a 99 Savage with 180 Rems
it worked well, Recoil well she has to be the judge

[DunRanull]

Don McDowell, your wife is amazing! Congrats on those critters!

Those who don't like .30-30s, well so it goes. I've hunted almost exclusively with the .308, generally in my old style BLR. Never felt under-gunned. Still like the .30-30, and bought a 6.5 Swede long rifle for shooting over distances in New Mexico. The Swedes use the 6.5X55 for everything, including elk and moose.
In the 60's and 70's a lots of the 6.5s were sporterised and used for a kid's rifle or a wife's rifle. Very effective.

[Don McDowell]

Dunranull yes she is.

[FWiedner]

So... the lady has never even been behind a rifle and you're setting up a firearm for her to take an elk?

Wow.

IMO the .308 should be entirely sufficient. It's a wonderful round. Placement, placement, placement.

Personally, I prefer heavier bullets just for penetration, and would MAKE the 180s work.

Hope everything goes as planned. New shooter, new hunter, you probably want to back her up with a second gun.

[Don McDowell]

Personally, I prefer heavier bullets just for penetration, and would MAKE the 180s work.

The 1 elk I shot with 180 out of the 308 actually penetrated less than 165's, the 165's will generally blow clear tru an elks ribcage out to 200 yds, the 180 stopped under the hide on the far side.

[6pt-sika]

Personally, I prefer heavier bullets just for penetration, and would MAKE the 180s work.

The 1 elk I shot with 180 out of the 308 actually penetrated less than 165's, the 165's will generally blow clear tru an elks ribcage out to 200 yds, the 180 stopped under the hide on the far side.

So a Nosler 165 AccuBond or Partition or the Hornady Interbond would be the ones to choose in a 308 for elk and bullwinkel by your estimations ?

[6pt-sika]

Hope everything goes as planned. New shooter, new hunter, you probably want to back her up with a second gun.

You certainly wouldn't think I would go hunting without a rifle

Now the question would be am I gonna be nostalgic and carry a 444 Marlin with a 300-350 grain cast bullet or am I gonna take my Ruger #1B 338 WIN MAG with the Nosler 210 grain Partition !

More then likely I'll take both to the camp !

[Don McDowell]

Either one works, but the 165 offers less recoil, and the added velocity makes for a further pbr.
But if the recoil for your lady friend is tolerable with both bullets then it comes to which one does the rifle shoot the best.

[6pt-sika]

Either one works, but the 165 offers less recoil, and the added velocity makes for a further pbr.
But if the recoil for your lady friend is tolerable with both bullets then it comes to which one does the rifle shoot the best.

Well looks to me as if I can lay my hands on a nice used Ruger #1A in 7x57 then the 140 or 150 Partition will be the way to go . But if I can't then get a #1A in 308 and go with one of the bullets mentioned above !

I've had very good luck accuracy wise with the Hornady 30 cal 165 SST in the 300 SAUM , the 300 WIN MAG and the 300 Weatherby . So perhaps the 165 Interbond will work nicely in a little Ruger 1A 308 .

[6pt-sika]

Cool thing is all the bullets I have mentioned for the 6.5mm , 7mm or 30 cal are all on the shelf in my loading room !

As well as dies and brass for the 260,7x57 , 7-08 and 308

[Glenn]

6pt,
A couple different ways to look at this. One is to practice with light bullets loaded down, if necesary, then put the real stuff in for the hunt. We all know we don't feel the recoil when hunting.

The other is to use a lighter Barnes X-bullet (or whatever they call them now). Throw all the standard recommendations out the window when you use these bullets for two reasons: They don't lose ANY weight so what you shoot is what you get. If your 180 gr. Partition weighs 140 grs. when recovered, the 140 gr. X-bullet will actually out-perform the 180 Partition because of the second reason: They don't create a large "mushroom" and therefor penetrate forever!

My buddy and I took two teenage boys on their first deer hunt this past weekend. We lent them rifles, and at the range they both liked the Rem. Model 7 in 7-08 over the Savage 110 in 270 - it kicked less.

One boy shot his deer with the 270 at about 80 yards from a tree stand. Broke her back - dropped like a rock (130 X-bullet).

The other only got a looking away shot at the very end of the hunt at about 120 yards. The 120 gr. Barnes-X (7-08) entered just left of center, broke the pelvis (or femur - didn't dig enough to find out), plowed through the stomach, destroyed the heart and was found in the neck, looking just like the advertisements. Deer hobbled about 15 feet. Both were good-sized Colorado whitetail does. No, they're not moose, but you'll get plenty of penetration with the X-bullet.

Glenn

[6pt-sika]

6pt,
A couple different ways to look at this. One is to practice with light bullets loaded down, if necesary, then put the real stuff in for the hunt. We all know we don't feel the recoil when hunting.

The other is to use a lighter Barnes X-bullet (or whatever they call them now). Throw all the standard recommendations out the window when you use these bullets for two reasons: They don't lose ANY weight so what you shoot is what you get. If your 180 gr. Partition weighs 140 grs. when recovered, the 140 gr. X-bullet will actually out-perform the 180 Partition because of the second reason: They don't create a large "mushroom" and therefor penetrate forever!

My buddy and I took two teenage boys on their first deer hunt this past weekend. We lent them rifles, and at the range they both liked the Rem. Model 7 in 7-08 over the Savage 110 in 270 - it kicked less.

One boy shot his deer with the 270 at about 80 yards from a tree stand. Broke her back - dropped like a rock (130 X-bullet).

The other only got a looking away shot at the very end of the hunt at about 120 yards. The 120 gr. Barnes-X (7-08) entered just left of center, broke the pelvis (or femur - didn't dig enough to find out), plowed through the stomach, destroyed the heart and was found in the neck, looking just like the advertisements. Deer hobbled about 15 feet. Both were good-sized Colorado whitetail does. No, they're not moose, but you'll get plenty of penetration with the X-bullet.

Glenn

Thanks for the info and glad to hear the young guys did some good !

I have several of the TSX bullets on my shelf as well as some of the older X Bullets . I used a 130 TSX in a 270 WSM a couple years back to do in a Virginia buck at about 75 yards DRT !

Used the 130 grain X bullet in a 264 WIN MAG a time or two to take some slicks as well as the 140 grain X bullet in a 7mm Ultra to knock over another pair of slicks one day .

There was a time not to far back that I killed a good many deer with what I would call premium jacketed bullets and I still have several rifles at the ready . Just for the past 4 or 5 years I've killed a good many more with my own cast bullets then I have with jacketed .

Incidently if this all pans out , I'll take a home cast bullet for whatever 444 I carry and a jacketed for the 338 WIN MAG . I may however go a little harder lead alloy then just water quenched wheelweights

[dkmlever]

Forgot about one other elk I took with the 308, a big cow and I was using a Winchester 88 with 180 gr partitions. I love that rifle, quick and points well, open sites cause it is a lever!
She wasn't far about 60 yards broadside but trotting, shot three in to her lungs ( I belive in shooting till they are down on elk) and she slid down a short hill in the snow. My buddy couldn't belive how fast that lever worked.

You have got some great suggestions, the hard part will be deciding which way to go for her.

By the way, when is this elk hunt and where will it be? Self guided or with an outfitter?

[2X22]

I have a little neighbor gal that I reload 140 accubonds in her 7mm08 a little below maximum. She's taken an elk the past 4 year with it.

I'm sure your .308 will do fine.

2x22

[Ji in Hawaii]

A stainless BLR in 338 Federal is one of my dream leverguns.

[6pt-sika]

By the way, when is this elk hunt and where will it be? Self guided or with an outfitter?

My fiancee is still in the Philippines dealing with her annulment that we've been doing for about 2 years now !

She and I are both 50 so I am assuming where ever we go it's got be a fairly "not difficult" hunt . So it's gonna have to be guided . Might try Newfoundland first for moose since thats a good deal closer for me !

But before we do any of that , I wanna get her where she
s killed 4 or 5 deer atleast before we shell out big bucks for a guided hunt !

[Marlin32]

I have two more cents to add, I personnally think the 25 calibers way too small for elk sized game. 6.5 and 7mm also.

Buy or have customized the 308, a little bit of weight, a good recoil pad and maybe a leather cheek pad, and she will be able to shoot it just fine. 165 or 180's.

I would stay away from light weight rifles period.

Need to use enough gun and the right bullet regardless of who is going to shoot it. Just because a 22 is all that someone can handle doesn't mean that is the one you are going to use on Elk.

[harry]

I have two more cents to add, I personnally think the 25 calibers way too small for elk sized game. 6.5 and 7mm also.

Buy or have customized the 308, a little bit of weight, a good recoil pad and maybe a leather cheek pad, and she will be able to shoot it just fine. 165 or 180's.

I would stay away from light weight rifles period.

Need to use enough gun and the right bullet regardless of who is going to shoot it. Just because a 22 is all that someone can handle doesn't mean that is the one you are going to use on Elk.

If you can't hit what your aiming at this might be true, the Texas heart shot will not work with a 25-06. But if you are a skilled hunter and hit where you are supposed to I've seen just as many elk killed with a 25-06 or 6.5x55 as with a 340 Weatherby.
Harry