Henry? Why Not?

[Sixgun]

Driftwood Johnson, You have not offended me. As Americans, we are free to voice our opinion. Thats what makes this country so great. And yes, I will agree their advertising is deceptive to unknowledgable people but, in this case I look the other way because the gun is American made.

What really boils my blood is how everyone extrolls on Jap guns. Yes, they are excellent guns with fine fit and finish and I seldom hear of mechanical complaints but..........did those buyers forget the history of those bloodthirsty villians who made 'em and the fact that they themselves can't use firearms in their own country. ----------Sixgun

(to everyone---No, I did not steal this thread--I'm sticking up for American made Henrys )

[ornery]

Dang, offended? Sounds cereal. It IS just a gun. Play nice 'er no TV fer' you guys

[Ben_Rumson]

I'm starting to want a Big Boy now...Ugly.. Ungainly..Distained...Sounds like the perfect rifle to whip some Winny, Marlin & Rossi shooters butts with!!

[jsimmons]

The original poster has said he intends to use a Big Boy in Cowboy Action shooting. If he intends to shoot at matches sanctioned by the Single Action Shooting Society, the Big Boy is a SASS legal main match rifle. It is not legal for NCOWS competition.

Actually, I said Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette, or more specifically, Pistol Cartridge Cowboy Lever Action Silhouette, which only limits the gun to a certain selection of calibers. At first, I'd considered a H001T (.22 mag), but people were talking about often merely ringing the rams (100 meters) instead of knocking them over, so I decided a larger caliber might be better.

[AJMD429]

If you can, get hold of a Marlin 1894, a Puma 92 or Winchester, and shoot them, and shoot a Big Boy.

They all go 'bang' and they are ALL good guns, but you'll just KNOW which you like, then you won't care what the rest of us think! None of the posts seem to give any serious condemning issues with the Henry, but rather list things they personally just don't like about them.

I agree with the 'ungainly' appearance, and I would probably paint the brass receiver but I'd still get my deer .

I actually LIKE the concept of 'tube' loading, and am toying with the idea of building a tube-loading Marlin .357 from a .44 receiver and magazine tube, by just re-barreling and replacing bolt and carrier.

Marlin is the most 'historic' other than the used Winchesters and re-makes.

As far as the .22's, I actually like my Ruger 96/22 best of all, and it is not pretty, and not historic, but was inexpensive, shoots accurately, and the short lever throw is great for fast shooting with a red-dot scope.

[Texican]

...Their advertising is full of deception.

The Henry Repeating Arms Company has absolutely no connection to the historic Henry rifle, manufactured by the New Haven Arms Company from 1860-1866......the HRAC has no connection at all to that company. They simply chose the name because it was in public domain, and attempt to link themselves to the historic name by association.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is a bit perturbed by their ads; maybe if the guns were at least faithful to the original design I'd warm to them. USFA garners my respect even though they use the Blue Dome/Colt association for their marketing, but I also perceive high quality, attention to detail and historical accuracy associated with their name. I've heard of Mr. Imperato before, and from what I remember, his claim to brilliance was as a marketer not a designer. Did they indeed chose the name from the public domain or did they license it? Licensed names do carry some legitimacy of pedigree, but the product must also match the perception for the name to continue to carry value.

We all know the gun industry isn't the same as fifty years ago. These days, the name on the gun is just the company selling it and not necessarily the manufacturer. Ithaca, Dan Wesson, Charles Daly are all in essence just names, licensed to whoever bid enough to own them and in some cases the designs associated with them. (Dare I say) Winchester and Browning are too. Springfield's XD is a Croatian import. The list goes on and on. Because of my personal experiences and perceptions I have no problem buying a Winchester or Browning made in Japan. I am considering an XD at some point. I respect the American made label and I do enjoy a connection with history. That why a Marlin is most often my go to gun. My fondness and loyalty is also due to having them help me win in competition many times.

That said, if one likes the HRAC guns and enjoys shooting them, great! Do it and be happy. Be very glad you are in a place where you can own the firearm of your choice. Don't be put out if someone elses tastes and desires don't match yours. This is the Leverguns 'community' after all and any us would welcome any other on the shooting line.

[engravertom]

What really boils my blood is how everyone extrolls on Jap guns. Yes, they are excellent guns with fine fit and finish and I seldom hear of mechanical complaints but..........did those buyers forget the history of those bloodthirsty villians who made 'em and the fact that they themselves can't use firearms in their own country. ----------Sixgun

(to everyone---No, I did not steal this thread--I'm sticking up for American made Henrys )

Bloodthirsty villains??

Can't own guns? have you checked into the gun laws in New York City lately? American made? Didn't someone post above that the owner only had them made in America because the cost of overseas production had gotten too high?

Like Henry's if you want to, buy American if you want to. You don't need to justify your preferences. I am hoping none of our members of Native American descent won't refuse to buy a Marlin or Winchester because they are made by the descendants of the bloodthirsty villains who killed their ancestors and stole their land.

Best to consider each person for their own transgressions, I would think.



Tom

[jsimmons]

None of the posts seem to give any serious condemning issues with the Henry, but rather list things they personally just don't like about them.

Yeah, I noticed that.

The weight issue is actually worthy of consideration, and I found out today that you have to turn the gun upside down in order to load ammo in the tube. I understand why, but that's darn inconvenient. Like someone else already pointed out, the gun needs a side loading gate (or whatever it's called). It's looking like I might be changing my mind and getting a Marlin or something. I still want the octagon barrel. My decision will be base on the actual rifle I chose, and not by the company behind it (beyond its reputation for customer service).

[engravertom]

Not everyone expects their levergun to serve in a defensive role, but if one did, and I do, the lack of a loading gate would be a condemning issue for me.

Take care,

Tom

[1x2]

This is an excellent thread. I'd been cogitating over whether to buy a Henry. But I can't get over the brass receiver, the weight, the fact that the barrel and mag tube are not cast as a single piece, the existence of the forearm, the weight (I understand the originals were over 9 lbs.).

ursavus.elemensis, good write-up.


I too am happy that Henry is made in America, and hope they do super-well. It wouldn't hurt my feelings for them to put out a 92 case-colored remake and NOT call it a Henry. In the meantime, I just can't find anything I like...

1x2

[Driftwood Johnson]

1x2:

According to the New Haven Arms Co. 1865 Catalog, the Henry rifle weighed 9.81 pounds.

According to the digital fishing scale I use to weigh out lead when I cast bullets, my own Uberti made 44-40 Henry weighs 9 pounds 6 ounces.

As far as the Henry name goes, there never was a historical Henry rifle company. At least not connected to the 1860 model lever gun. They were made by the New Haven Arms Company, which was the successor to the Volcanic Repeating Arms Company. Henry was the shop superintendent and was responsible for developing the design under the supervision of the company's chief stockholder, Oliver Winchester. Henry and Winchester parted on unfriendly terms in a disagreement over money, around 1865. There is some evidence that while Winchester was on a well deserved vacation in Europe Henry approached the Connecticut legislature and petitioned to have the name of the company legally changed to Henry. When Winchester got wind of this he cut his vacation short and hurried home. According to some accounts the company was known as the Henry company for less than a year. According to other accounts the Henry name never appeared as the name of the company. In any event, by 1866 Winchester had complete control over the company and renamed the company after himself, ending the possibility of a Henry name.

The patent for the rifle was issued in Henry's name as a gesture to the designer when he and Winchester were on better terms in 1860. But the rights to the patent were always owned by the New Haven Arms Company. Without an officially chartered company using the Henry name, there was nothing to prevent a modern company from appropriating it.

[1x2]

Driftwood,

Thanks for the background!

1x2

[Sixgun]

What really boils my blood is how everyone extrolls on Jap guns. Yes, they are excellent guns with fine fit and finish and I seldom hear of mechanical complaints but..........did those buyers forget the history of those bloodthirsty villians who made 'em and the fact that they themselves can't use firearms in their own country. ----------Sixgun

(to everyone---No, I did not steal this thread--I'm sticking up for American made Henrys )

Bloodthirsty villains??

Can't own guns? have you checked into the gun laws in New York City lately? American made? Didn't someone post above that the owner only had them made in America because the cost of overseas production had gotten too high?

Like Henry's if you want to, buy American if you want to. You don't need to justify your preferences. I am hoping none of our members of Native American descent won't refuse to buy a Marlin or Winchester because they are made by the descendants of the bloodthirsty villains who killed their ancestors and stole their land.

Best to consider each person for their own transgressions, I would think.



Tom

Hey Tom---------Can you read J-A-P-S------?????? I said JAP guns-------------OK, Now you learned how to read---So take it a step at a time and continue to the bottom line. Can you say STICKING UP FOR AMERICAN MADE HENRY'S??? Please put your brain in gear before your fingers in motion

[ursavus.elemensis]

Yeah, the name/advertising thing bugs a lot of people and probably costs them more sales than it gains them, though their accountant may wish to argue that point.

Names are interesting things these days. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Colt firearms company is basically gone with the name living on in licensure only. Same goes for my Lionel trains. The comapny, Lionel LLC, that makes and sells Lionel trains does not own the name Lionel and the familiar orange and blue trademarks. We all know that Winchester is not the original, and in fact, the interesting thing that many people do not know is that the original Winchester company ceased to exist in like 1930, or somewhere around there. After that, it was all licensure.

Abercrombie and Fitch is the same way, not that anyone on HERE actually buys from them, or cares, but it is all licensing of names.

I do think the Henry .44 Mag lever rifles have some good points to consider:
1. Reliability. Never had a problem with mine.
2. Smooth action right out of the box. Cycling the action is really easy and smooth.
3. The company President personally answers every email that comes in to the company. If anything ever goes wrong, he WILL help you and I defy anyone to get the President of Marlin (uh, I think that means Cerberus Captial, or at least Remington) to answer your email. In fact, I hearby and herein forthwith declare a LeverChallange by which I say that if ANYONE can get the President of Marlin, Remington, or Cerberus Capital to answer an email of yours, I will personally award you some sort of LeverPrize to be named later when I think of it. But my point stays active: Get the President of Marlin, Remington, or Cerberus Capital to answer your email, and you win a LeverChallange LeverPrize to be named later. I don't think you can do it, but go ahead and try. You can get an email reply from the President of Henry in 24 hours or less, even on Christmas Day (don't ask me how I know that...)
4. Can you imagine the shock and awe if I showed up at the shooting range with a Bushnell sitting on top of a model 1873 replica rifle????? No such problem with a Henry lever rifle. They'll even provide you with a nifty catilever scope mount.
5. What's wrong with BRASS?

Still weighs too darn much.

[Leverdude]

I think the board at Marlin stayed the same, the way I understand things it should stay about the same but they now have acess to much greater capital.
Its not really a fair comparison anyway. Its like comparing a mom & pop grocery to a nationwide chain. If Mr Imperato's buisness ever gets as large as Marlin, Ruger, Win or any other major manufacturer he wont be answering every e-mail either.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy again

Colt may have drastically reduced their civillian offerings, but the company is not a licensee. Colt is still doing business as Colt in West Hartford Ct. And despite what you may have heard, they still make all their parts and assemble their guns in Hartford. They moved out from under the Blue Dome some years ago into a modern facility in West Hartford. USFA occupied the space under the Blue Dome for a few years, but they are currently in their own new facility in Hartford.

Yes, Winchester is a sad story today. But I drove past the Marlin plant in North Haven on my way home from NYC on Sunday. The sign is still on the wall and they are still doing business. So is Savage and S&W, still doing business in New England within sight of the road, no licensing going on there either.

I agree, the president of HRAC does personally see to it that customers receive good service. Never said otherwise. I just don't like the way he chooses to misrepresent his company and his products.

[GANJIRO]

What really boils my blood is how everyone extrolls on Jap guns. Yes, they are excellent guns with fine fit and finish and I seldom hear of mechanical complaints but..........did those buyers forget the history of those bloodthirsty villians who made 'em and the fact that they themselves can't use firearms in their own country. ----------Sixgun

Hmmm, I did not realize the workers at the Miroku (and Howa) plants are bloodthirsty villians.

I also did not realize that all these (bloodthirsty villian?) Japanese hunters can't use firearms in their own country.

http://www.zenryo.or.jp/contents/contentsmenu.html
http://www.crowbusters.com/begart3.htm
http://www.hihoo.net/symphony/otousuke/

I hope more people buy into this BS then maybe it'll bring the price down on a nice Browning 1886 I've been searching for.

[Leverdude]

Cool links Ganjiro!

[Grizzly Adams]

What really boils my blood is how everyone extrolls on Jap guns. Yes, they are excellent guns with fine fit and finish and I seldom hear of mechanical complaints but..........did those buyers forget the history of those bloodthirsty villians who made 'em and the fact that they themselves can't use firearms in their own country. ----------Sixgun

Hmmm, I did not realize the workers at the Miroku (and Howa) plants are bloodthirsty villians.

I also did not realize that all these (bloodthirsty villian?) Japanese hunters can't use firearms in their own country.

http://www.zenryo.or.jp/contents/contentsmenu.html
http://www.crowbusters.com/begart3.htm
http://www.hihoo.net/symphony/otousuke/

I hope more people buy into this BS then maybe it'll bring the price down on a nice Browning 1886 I've been searching for.

I believe most of those "bloodthirsty villains" we fought during The War, are by and large mostly dead now from old age - provided they survived the War!:lol:

At least Miruku is up front about who they are, and lay no claims to anyone else's history. ....and they make beautiful high quality reproductions of classic Winchesters.

Interesting links!

[Chuck 100 yd]

Ganjiro! , I dont see any guns in any of those photos. lots of people from Japan go to the indoor ranges here. They say they cant own/shoot in Japan. What gives?

[GANJIRO]

Ganjiro! , I dont see any guns in any of those photos. lots of people from Japan go to the indoor ranges here. They say they cant own/shoot in Japan. What gives?

Aloha Chuck,
Please read the article at http://www.crowbusters.com/begart3.htm
(quote) Guns and hunting in Japan? Most westerners think that guns are outlawed in Japan. The truth is that local Japanese cannot own handguns, but are free to purchase shotguns and rifles.
Any competent person can own a shotgun or rifle. All firearms have to be registered with the local police department and when registered, a "blue book" containing information on the firearm is received." (unquote)

I have lived in Japan, I personally know hunters there, first hand info.

Look at these pictures from: http://www.hihoo.net/symphony/otousuke/


The Japanese are a little more humble about gun display, but think about this why are these two hunters in photo wearing "hunter orange", and what is that hanging from the shoulder of hunter in second photo?
The main hang-up in Japan is handgun ownership, not firearm ownership in general, that is why they LOVE to fire HANDGUNS when they come to visit America (Dirty Harry fantasies).
Also if you ask the average Japanese off the plane about gun laws in Japan you will get the same ignorant response as asking the average urban American about gun laws here. You don't want to base your information on ignorance and inaccuracies.
I had a lot more Japanese hunting websites in English bookmarked but they are no longer available.

[claybob86]

Good links, Ji. Thanks. I would guess that from the point of view of those piggies and crows, those guys might just be bloodthirsty villains!

[Griff]

I try to dispense with personal opinion, except: When I first heard of the Henry Repeating Arms Company I had high hopes of getting an 1860 Henry built here in the US. I watched and waited until I finally saw one of their advertisements. What a let down. Basically, what Driftwood said.

As an Endowment member of SASS, I liked their stance on qualifications for arms for their competitions, then they bowed to a few and accepted the Henry. Again, a let-down.

But, in reality the proof is in the pudding, or in SASS, in the competition. I've watched them in the various stages. Some of this could be operation unfamiliarity, or ???, but I have seldom seen one run where it didn't stutter during a rapid fire session. I've seen some pretty slow runs where they worked perfectly.

Now, I'll say that I've seen shooters have similar problems with Marlin 1894 and Winchester 94s (in pistol calibers), but... they aren't $900 guns, either.

No thank you. 'Sides, it would take away from the few pennies I get to buy either real Winchesters, or faithful (& some not so faithful) reproductions thereof.

[Sixgun]

What really boils my blood is how everyone extrolls on Jap guns. Yes, they are excellent guns with fine fit and finish and I seldom hear of mechanical complaints but..........did those buyers forget the history of those bloodthirsty villians who made 'em and the fact that they themselves can't use firearms in their own country. ----------Sixgun

Hmmm, I did not realize the workers at the Miroku (and Howa) plants are bloodthirsty villians.

I also did not realize that all these (bloodthirsty villian?) Japanese hunters can't use firearms in their own country.

http://www.zenryo.or.jp/contents/contentsmenu.html
http://www.crowbusters.com/begart3.htm
http://www.hihoo.net/symphony/otousuke/

I hope more people buy into this BS then maybe it'll bring the price down on a nice Browning 1886 I've been searching for.

Ji,
Nothing personal. Its just that I am a Nationalist and if its not American made, I cannot "connect" to it.

The websites you posted are very informative but you gotta admit, there's no freedom with firearms and hunting like there is here in the states. I can go to an auction or gunshop and buy 25 guns, pay cash and walk out the door, and take 'em home. I ain't willing to give that up.

I must apologize for calling the japs "bloodthirsty villians" as I am sure most are decent people. Its just that two of by fathers relatives were "casulaties of the South Pacific". One was on the Bataan Death march, and the other was used for live germ testing. Its hard to get that kind of behavior that was supported by the Japanese military out of my head. -------------Sixgun

[engravertom]

[


I must apologize for calling the japs "bloodthirsty villians" as I am sure most are decent people. Its just that two of by fathers relatives were "casulaties of the South Pacific". One was on the Bataan Death march, and the other was used for live germ testing. Its hard to get that kind of behavior that was supported by the Japanese military out of my head. -------------Sixgun

I'm sorry to hear that, (about your relatives and their suffering)and glad to see your comments here.

My wife's dad served in France and germany with the Big red One, and one of her uncles served in the Nisei battalion that was very highly decorated in the ETO. Some of his relatives, and maybe he himself, I don't remeber, did time in those "camps".

My wife's mother lived in Korea and Japan during the war, and ended up near Hiroshima at the end. maybe her death at 56, 2 weeks after I married her daughter, was related to radiation exposure? No way to know.

I'll buy American when I can. I appreciate fine craftsmanship and good value wherever I find it.

Anyway, this has ended up being a good thread.

take care,

Tom

[GANJIRO]

Ji,
Nothing personal. Its just that I am a Nationalist and if its not American made, I cannot "connect" to it.

The websites you posted are very informative but you gotta admit, there's no freedom with firearms and hunting like there is here in the states. I can go to an auction or gunshop and buy 25 guns, pay cash and walk out the door, and take 'em home. I ain't willing to give that up.

I must apologize for calling the japs "bloodthirsty villians" as I am sure most are decent people. Its just that two of by fathers relatives were "casulaties of the South Pacific". One was on the Bataan Death march, and the other was used for live germ testing. Its hard to get that kind of behavior that was supported by the Japanese military out of my head. -------------Sixgun

No offense taken, no apologies necessary, you'll get no argument from me as far as Japs from that generation. My Dad fought them thru the Southwest Pacific from the Admiralty Islands thru the New Guinea Campaign, and then thru the Philippines. He also went through China including Nan King shortly after the war so was a eye witness to the villainy and atrocities of these heartless bastards. He himself was a victim in a way as these experiences effected him the rest of his life, I've come face to face with him and his 1911 a few times when coming home late at night through the back door.

There is no place on Earth that compares to America as far as gun ownership is concerned though here in Hawaii isn't that far behind Japan as far as rules regulating firearms, we can never do the type of purchases you just described. My bond with this state endded when my parents passed away but my wifes love for her aging parents will keep me here.

I wish Winchester as we knew it as kids still existed and they still made the 1886, and 1892 models arguably the best designs ever put out by Winchester but I'm happy I can get a great quality fact simile made at all, but especially from one of the strongest allies to the USA, and a modern Democracy, the Japan of today a totally different animal from the Japan of the 1930-40s. (Italians also making the 1860, 1866, 1873, 1876 Winchesters, ironic how our former enemies helping to preserve our culture today)

I always recommend the book "Flyboys: A True Story of Courage" by James Bradley (his father a Iwo Jima veteran), a balanced view of what led Japan to war, that cruelty and atrocities were not unique to the Japanese, and the story of courage of young American heroes just young boys who came to the call of duty as US Navy & Marine pilots in the South Pacific. Please read this book.

[engravertom]

+1 on "Flyboys" A tough read, but a good one.

Tom

[Gryphon Black]

I gave serious thought to the henry when I was thinking about my ideal leverrifle. I decided that I like thier stocky/chunky look and feel, and I like a heavy gun in general. What I didn't like was that it loaded from the front of the tube, and I knew I wouldn't be at peace with that. I knew I would get only one [at least for now], and it had to be reciever gate loaded. Also, I have a little thing about yellow metal. I like that they did it in brass, cuz that's different, but I don't do yellow metal. Silver, black, or copper. I saw the Marlin Cowboy Limited with the 24" barrel, and the square-bolt side eject, and I knew that was the gun for me.
In the end, it all comes down to that phrase, "the gun for me". Most all will echo that. If the Henry is the gun for you, then get it without reservation, and tell everybody else to go pound sand.
Am I right?