Hunting accuracy

[Pisgah]

I had a real-life refresher class Saturday on the meaning of hunting accuracy. No, this time I was not carrying a leveraction. It was my cut-down .30-06 carbine, a Ted Williams Model 53 (post-'64 Win.M70) with 18" barrel. Late in a day of seeing nothing, a big doe stepped out in to a logging trace I was watching. It was the longest shot available, paced off in advance at 215 yards.

Now, many people would not regard my rifle as outstandingly acccurate. With inexpensive Remington 180 gr. factory loads it will reliably group three shots in to 1.25 to 1.50" off the bench, and some people aren't fired up about that level of accuracy. I realize the important thing about it -- consistency. It may not be MOA, but it is darned close shooting at 100 yards, close even on out to 300 or so.

I had no solid rest in the stand I was sitting in, but there was a tree trunk I could press most of my body against to ease the shakes. A quick sight, a clean trigger break, and she dropped at the shot.

Now, I am no whiz of a shot, and to tell the truth I am a bit rusty. But I have shot enough that I have become, and still am right now, consistent. That may fail me if I don't practice more, but for now a careful, average shot with a consistent rifle equals hunting accuracy good enough for 'most anything reasonable. If you know your level of performance, and your rifle's, you're halfway there. But it also needs to be said that, even the best, most-practiced shooter has to asnswer the question -- will this shot be accurate? -- every time he pulls the trigger.

[madman4570]

215 yds ain't nothing to sneeze at!
That's good shooting
Congrats!

[AJMD429]

If a gun can hit with the first shot, from the anticipated 'field' position, an area half the size of the vital-zone you're going for, at the range you anticipate, and delivers the right projectile at the right energy level, you've got it made! That sounds like a tough standard, but assuming you have a 'reasonable' chambering for the intended game, 'hunting accuracy' for anyone but prarie-dog type shooters probably means if you can hit something between the size of a quart oil can and a gallon jug at 100 yards you're good to go.

For me, whatever the 'group size' is at 100 yards offhand will likely be triple that from a good rest, so first-shot hits on a pop-can at 100 yards from a rest would give me great confidence in the gun (not that I can always do MY part... ).

[FWiedner]

It is incumbent upon any ethical hunter or shooter to know where his/her shot will land before he or she pulls the trigger.

The inventory of concerns are; familiarity with the firearm and ammunition in use, knowledge of the characteristics and dimensions of the target, an awareness of the environment, and a level of skill that allows the hunter or shooter to coordinate those elements to advantage.

Average sized deer fall into a MEDIUM game category. An 18" .30-06 digests a 180gr Core-lokt bullet at about 1860fps, strikes at 210 yds at around 1500 fps with about 900 ftlbs of energy, which puts it at the low end for taking LARGE game. Off the bench you were regularly shooting 1.5" groups. Assume that opens to 3" or 4" at 215yds. You were in a position of advantage that allowed a clean shot and did not alarm your game. You used a rest adequate to stabilize your shooting position, looking at an animal with an average vitals kill-zone of 8".

My math says that's a formula for success.

Of course, if you had sneezed at the same time you squeezed the trigger, or done something that spooked your quarry just prior to firing, You might multiply the above calculation by 0.

[Silent Sam]

"An 18" .30-06 digests a 180gr Core-lokt bullet at about 1860fps, strikes at 210 yds at around 1500 fps with about 900 ftlbs of energy, which puts it at the low end for taking LARGE game."

You need to get your 30-06 fixed...

[kasTX]

An 18" .30-06 digests a 180gr Core-lokt bullet at about 1860fps, strikes at 210 yds at around 1500 fps with about 900 ftlbs of energy, which puts it at the low end for taking LARGE game.

Not sure where you got those numbers, but they look really low for a 30-06.

Edit: Oops, Silent Sam beat me to it.

[FWiedner]

An 18" .30-06 digests a 180gr Core-lokt bullet at about 1860fps, strikes at 210 yds at around 1500 fps with about 900 ftlbs of energy, which puts it at the low end for taking LARGE game.

Not sure where you got those numbers, but they look really low for a 30-06.

Edit: Oops, Silent Sam beat me to it.

I tend to calculate on the conservative side, but I did use the factory numbers provided by Remington.

In your august opinion, am I mistaken in concluding that Pisgah's outfit should have worked?

[Pisgah]

An 18" .30-06 digests a 180gr Core-lokt bullet at about 1860fps, strikes at 210 yds at around 1500 fps with about 900 ftlbs of energy, which puts it at the low end for taking LARGE game.

Not sure where you got those numbers, but they look really low for a 30-06.

Edit: Oops, Silent Sam beat me to it.

I tend to calculate oe. They're way low for a .30-06.n the conservative side, but I did use the factory numbers provided by Remington.

In your august opinion, am I mistaken in concluding that Pisgah's outfit should have worked?

In an 18" barrel, a .30-30 has the ballistics you quote. For a .30-06 they are 'way low.

[Dave]

That is a good shot. A gun that will do 1.5" at 100 yards is usable. I think the application of the gun is just as important as it's mechanical accuracy. Maybe moreso. Your ability to use whatever is available to steady your position and place your round says a lot about your abilities with a rifle. A man needs to be able to make himself into a stable shooting platform using whatever is at hand.

[FWiedner]

In an 18" barrel, a .30-30 has the ballistics you quote. For a .30-06 they are 'way low.

Glad you had a good hunt and your stuff worked.

[madman4570]

"An 18" .30-06 digests a 180gr Core-lokt bullet at about 1860fps, strikes at 210 yds at around 1500 fps with about 900 ftlbs of energy, which puts it at the low end for taking LARGE game."

You need to get your 30-06 fixed...

Way low guy?


http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/October05.htm


S/B about 2400fps out of that 18" with the 180gr at the muzzle and about 1950fps at 210yds
Also trajectory when sighted in(zero) at 200yds--------------------S/B about +2.4" at 100yds / -10.4" at 300yds

[kasTX]

I tend to calculate on the conservative side, but I did use the factory numbers provided by Remington.

In your august opinion, am I mistaken in concluding that Pisgah's outfit should have worked?

I checked the Remington site before I replied the first time, and the slowest 180gr load I could find leaves the muzzle at 2,665 fps and doesn't drop down to 1,856 fps until 300 yards. I too thought you might have clicked on 30-30, but they don't list a 180gr load. Your numbers sound more like a 357 out of a rifle, except it wouldn't retain that much speed at 215 yards.

[FWiedner]

Geez. OK...

With further research...

I calculated the muzzle velocity at 2520fps for the R30064 .30-06 180gr SP and then used my ballistics calculator to determine the velocity at 200yds as 1862fps.

For some reason I mistakenly used the caclulated velocity at 200 yards as the muzzle velocity and calculated velocity at 200yds a second time, resultng in an oddly low and apparently controversial number.

All I can say is...

Oops.

In a vain attempt to recover, I will weakly make a claim that my fabricated and anemic .30-06 would still kill a deer at 200 yds.

[BigSky56]

Good shooting anytime you can one round them and they drop you done right by the animal. My nephew shoots a ruger 77 with short bbl 18-20"? for elk Ive seen him whack them out to 300 yds, with todays powders you can make up for the short bbls and get the job done. danny

[stretch]

All of which just goes to prove that the 30-06 is "adequate" out
to 200 yards or so on whitetail........

Seriously, though - this is an interesting post, and a great discussion
about field - or "real-world" accuracy. The late Jeff Cooper always
wrote, "If you can get clsoer, get closer. If you can get steadier, get
steadier." (Or words to that effect.......) Pisgah may or may not be
God's gift of a rifleman in terms of Camp Perry 1,000 yard accuracy, but
he's obviously a dandy practical rifleman.

Good on yer, Pisgah! Enjoy your venison. 215 yards on live game is good
shootin' in anybody's book.

Make a good story better and tell us you used iron sights.....

-Stretch

[horsesoldier03]

Just dont tell any of those GUN RUG writers! Everyone else seems to know a 30-06 even with an 18" barrel will still reach out and do it's buisness, even if you only use REMINGTON CORELOKTS and dont buy the high dollar ammo. As far as the velocity, your only going to loose about 50 fps per inch from your barrel, so your only going to loose approx. 200-250 fps with an 18" barrel. GREAT JOB!

[tman]

Way back in the ancient times i walk into a gun store and took particular interest in a Remington 30-06 760 with an 18" barrell. When the clerke told me that the rifle was useless beyond 100 yards, i left. I've seen amazing long range shootings with 16" barrelled .308WCF's. Once again, it's the man behind the gun. Look what SGT. York did with Army issue weapons. Nice shooting. Our weapons are more accurate than we are.

[Streetstar]

People routinely use SKS rifles, AK variants and Moisins in my neck of the woods that are 4MOA rifles at their absolute best to take deer every year (well, a good Moisin might do considerably better than that with upgraded sights but i digress) -- and i have seen just as many SKS and AK type rifles that struggle with 6 MOA (Mini-30's too .

If you keep your shots under 100 yards and know the rifle's tendencies , 6 MOA (at 100 that is) - has you in the game. There are probably some of us out there in lever land that do well to hold 4 MOA at 100 yards with iron sights on our leverguns but the shot is still do-able at 150 yards or less ---

In either of the above scenarios - i would obviously recommend getting as close as possible over taking a 150 yard shot with a 4 or 5 MOA rifle -- and even if the rifle shoots tighter when clamped into a lead sled, the guy pulling the trigger has to do the job too

Personally, i greatly prefer at least a 2MOA rifle or tighter too ---

[O.S.O.K.]

As long as the gun maintains zero, a 6" grouper is 3" away from point of aim... which is usually plenty good if you're taking a heart/lung shot.

A 2", 100 yard gun is fine to 250 IMHO.

I like MOA guns but really, for hunting it's just not necessary unless you're taking neck shots or something like that -which is not my method.

[Pisgah]

> As far as the velocity, your only going to loose about 50 fps per inch from your barrel, so your only going to loose approx. 200-250 fps with an 18" barrel. GREAT JOB!

A super magnum might lose close to 50 fps per inch of shortening, but the "standard" cartridges of the .270/.30-06 class do much better -- more like 25 fps. Go from 24 down to 18" and you're losing only around 150 fps.

[wolfdog]

Way back in the ancient times i walk into a gun store and took particular interest in a Remington 30-06 760 with an 18" barrell. When the clerke told me that the rifle was useless beyond 100 yards, i left. I've seen amazing long range shootings with 16" barrelled .308WCF's. Once again, it's the man behind the gun. Look what SGT. York did with Army issue weapons. Nice shooting. Our weapons are more accurate than we are.

Should have jumped on that one tman, my 760 carbine will group an inch with most loads at 100 if I do my part, and you don't get the barrel too warm. Back to topic you don't have to shoot bench rest type groups to take game so long as you shoot within your firearm and your limits be it rifle, shotgun, handgun, or bow.