I am peeved ........

[J Miller]

Isn't peeved a step or two above annoyed?

I was going to buy a pound of black powder to do some load testing with but I found out the one and only place that carried B.P. no longer does. So ... that means there is NO place in the Springfield area that carries B.P.. According to the LGS guy I have to drive somewhere around 35 miles to another town to get any.
I suppose if I'm going that way it's not so bad, but I rarely go that way and I'm not gonna make a special trip.

So I do without.

Stinking place, I disapprove of it's very existence.

Joe

[Mac in Mo]

Joe,

I only use the real stuff in my muzzleloaders. As far as I know there is only one place around here that still carries it. If they stop I will be in the same boat, that would really stink. Now you have me wondering, I'll have to check that out tomorrow. I think it is almost inevitable that it will be almost impossible to find in a few years, I hope I'm wrong.
While we are on the subject, what is the situation with BP substitutes? I have not even looked into those since I tried pyrodex years ago and did not like it. I still have the one and only bottle of the stuff that I bought.

Kevin

[Chas.]

Had the same problem, but I found that there are individuals that buy a lot at one time to allay the hazerdous shipping and they are willing to part with a pound from time to time.

[Nath]

Joe, I have to get bits of paper from big bro before I can go get some from anywhere but I can buy Pyrodex no questions asked! Go figure!

Maybe some one can collect for you??

Nath.

[J Miller]

12 years ago I loaded the remains of a pound of Pyrodex "P" into a bunch of .45 Colt cases. It gummed up the guns so bad I ended up having to use the lubed wads they sell for cap and ball guns to help with the problem.

After getting to IL I finished off the batch of ammo and scrubbed my OM BH with soap and hot water. Lubed it good too. Later on I found pits in the bore and chambers. Then every time I'd shoot the gun and clean it the pits kept growing in the chambers till it looked like small chunks of chamber wall were missing.

After that I never bought any Pyrodex and I never will. I've been told this could not have happened with Pyrodex, but it did.

As for the other substitute powders I have no experience with them and probably won't. The way I look at it if I can't buy real black powder I'll just shoot smokeless.

Since I don't shoot very much B.P. it's not worth the expense to buy it in bulk. Nor do I know anybody around here that does.

So once I finish up the partial box I have left, that's all she wrote.

Joe

[Malamute]

Dang Joe, are you sure you want to move back to the west? 35 miles isnt that far. Many will drive 90 miles to go eat somewhere they like, shop for something they can't easily find at home, or to stock up at the membership stores. I have to drive 35 miles to go out to eat, buy groceries, or anything else.

I don't know of anyone in this area that carries black retail within 60 miles or more. There are cowboy shooters that buy in bulk and split up orders. I've gotten a bit from them for my percussion pistols. You might try getting on the sass forum and see if anyone in your area buys black and would sell a pound or two.

[J Miller]

Malamute,

Yeah, but you see 90 miles out west is shorter than 35 miles here.

Kinda like AZ is a dry heat ......

Naw, I ain't gonna join another forum just to try to mooch some black pdr.


Joe

[Chuck 100 yd]

My wife drives 90 miles one way to get her hair done.I used to drive 90+ each way to go to a Thursday evening trap shoot.
But that was when gas was .65 cents a gallon.

28 miles up to the gun club is about as far as I go for a quick day trip any more unless I am with someone.

Splurge Joe, you can do it!!

I sold pokey 5 pounds of 2f just the other day. He picked it up on his way home from work.

[rond]

I've used American Pioneer for several years in .45-70 and my muzzle loaders, have Pyrodex for the c&b revolvers. Won't replace the Pyrodex when it's gone.

[6pt-sika]

We have two options here for actual BP !

The first is a rather large gunshop in the sorta Northern VA area and they charge about $6 a pound more then anywhere else ! They are also about 45 miles away which unto itself is not a big deal to me !

The other place is about 65 miles away and a what I would call BP distributer for our area . They are there pretty much because they are in about a rocks throw of the N-SSA grounds in the WInchester VA area . And his prices are about $2-3 a pound less then what it normally lists for .

So about once a year a bunch of us get together and ride over when they have the N-SSA event and buy several pounds each . We split the gas , go see the Skirmishers shoot , look at whats for sale and come on home . Pretty pleasent way to spend a saturday once a year !

[6pt-sika]

I've used American Pioneer for several years in .45-70 and my muzzle loaders, have Pyrodex for the c&b revolvers. Won't replace the Pyrodex when it's gone.

I used Pyrodex for the first time about 34 years ago in a Ruger Old Army revolver . Seemed to me you could never get that thing clean regardless of what you did !

[Malamute]

Malamute,

Yeah, but you see 90 miles out west is shorter than 35 miles here.

Kinda like AZ is a dry heat ...... ...

Joe

Well, I have to agree with you about that. Driving in the midwest seems like swimming upstream in molasses compared to driving in the west. Could be some sort of time warp/distortion effect.

[Ysabel Kid]

Can barely find loose Pyrodex here - and no one carried Goex. When I found some in Gettysburg while on vacation I purchased 5 pounds!

[Chris83716]

Joe,

I feel your pain. You would think in Boise Idaho, that someone would carry honest to god black powder. I've been to every place I know that carries anything gun related for about a 50 mile radius.

All I have gotten for my time and trouble is a lot of stupid looks from people trying to sell me Pyrodex. I don't even try to explain the difference now. I just shake my head any walk away.

Chris

[6pt-sika]

Can barely find loose Pyrodex here - and no one carried Goex. When I found some in Gettysburg while on vacation I purchased 5 pounds!

Next time you slide thru VA on the way to PA get on 81 over around Winchester and there's a dealer/distributer over there that handles every brand !
And his prices are cheaper !

All you gotta do is go on the Goex website and I believe they have his addy and everything !

[765x53]

I have found no discernible difference between BP and Pyrodex except, Pyrodex is cheaper, easier to find, safer to handle , more shots per pound, and fouling is softer giving more shots between cleaning.
Clean up and corrosion potential is identical. They both contain saltpeter which is a salt. Only water will clean salt from steel. No amount of oil will prevent corrosion if salt is present.
That's why one day of shooting = two days of cleaning.

[El Chivo]

Isn't peeved a step or two above annoyed?

peeved is well below annoyed.

distracted
displeased
uptight
affronted
peeved
chagrined
huffy
cross
frustrated
galled
piqued
riled
annoyed
inflamed
angry
outraged
irate
furious
infuriated
enraged

Joe, I think you're outraged, inflamed, or perhaps riled, about the lack of real black powder in your area. Annoyed is when a displeasing event is recurring beyond your control, such as the neighbors playing loud music or your wife clacking her knitting needles when you're trying to load 45 Long Colt. The repetition as much as anything else contributes to the annoyance. This can lead to outrage, but for a singly occurring event it would be hard to claim annoyance.

Outrage on the other hand, sounds strong, but is a natural reaction when something just isn't fair. I think your problem falls into this category.

-El Chivo

[olyinaz]

After that I never bought any Pyrodex and I never will. I've been told this could not have happened with Pyrodex, but it did.

As for the other substitute powders I have no experience with them and probably won't.

I don't know why anyone would tell you that it could not happen with Pyrodex. The stuff is just as corrosive and moisture attracting as black powder and I can't for the life of me figure out what the "improvement" is with the stuff. I guess it's less liable to ignite from static? Dunno, but whatever their claim may be I find it dirty and down on power as compared to the Holy Black. Yuck, who needs that? And the same goes for that American Pioneer stuff. It's better than Pyrodex, but that's not saying much when I can't see why one would prefer it to real black.

The only black substitute that I know of that is non-corrosive and non-hygroscopic is Blackhorn 209. As the name suggest it needs strong ignition so I've never used it since all my BP pistols are cap & ball and I don't own a 209 ignition muzzle loader. I look forward to loading some .45 Colt with it when the weather cools off. The stuff cleans up with regular cleaners like Hoppes etc.

If what you need BP for is cartridges, maybe give that stuff a try? It seems pretty widely available.

Cheers,
Oly

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I have found no discernible difference between BP and Pyrodex except, Pyrodex is cheaper, easier to find, safer to handle , more shots per pound, and fouling is softer giving more shots between cleaning.
Clean up and corrosion potential is identical. They both contain saltpeter which is a salt. Only water will clean salt from steel. No amount of oil will prevent corrosion if salt is present.
That's why one day of shooting = two days of cleaning.

I disagree. Even water can leave residue salts. I shoot the BP CAS categories so I use a lot of Black powder and usually buy is 25 to 50# at a time. I bulk order with local CAS shooters.
I also live on the Gulf Coast. you can literally watch things rust here. When I clean I use hot water but I also use Windex General purpose cleaner. It's clear not blue. The reason it work well though is because it has a slight amount f vinegar in it. Vinegar is acidic so it helps neutralize the salts. Next is a hot water rinse the flush the remaining water out with Auto Zone brand Brake Parts Cleaner. Finally spraying the gun down with your favorite spray lube, wipe it down, grease where it needs it then back together.

After that I never bought any Pyrodex and I never will. I've been told this could not have happened with Pyrodex, but it did.

As for the other substitute powders I have no experience with them and probably won't.

I don't know why anyone would tell you that it could not happen with Pyrodex. The stuff is just as corrosive and moisture attracting as black powder and I can't for the life of me figure out what the "improvement" is with the stuff. I guess it's less liable to ignite from static? ...............................................................................................Cheers,
Oly

The primary difference is Pyrodex is classified as a flamable where BP is classified as an explosive and requires a special license and storage equipment to resale it. That's why you don't see many shops that carry it but will sell Pyrodex.

Joe,
If you want a good BP sub see if you can find Pioneer select Shockley's gold. It's very clean as BP subs go and non corrosive. It can be order just like smokeless.

[Cimarron]

I've been using Pyrodex for about 29 years. Recently bought some Pyrodex Select for use in the Cimarron 1876 .45-75 WCF. All I can say is that I've not had any problems with it and the velocities over my Oehler 35P are consistent. I clean it the same as if I was using black powder. I must say that in this rifle I like 5744 or 4198 better than black or Pyrodex if for nothing else I don't have to be concerned about cleaning immediately after shooting it.

[J Miller]

What is the point of shooting phoney black powder that isn't much more than smoky smokeless powder?
I do not need to shoot black powder. When I do it's because I want to shoot it for nostalgia.
Rather than try this or that pseudo black pdr stuff I'll just stick with smokeless.

Thanks for all your suggestions though, I do appreciate your taking the time to respond.

Joe

[Old Time Hunter]

From my experience I can not fiind the difference between cleaning up after "real" black and Pyrodex. So far so good in that after upteen years, no pits on any of the guns I use it in. Especially concerned with my original '73-'84 Trapdoors (1 made in 1876 ser #131XX) and Mauser 71 and 71/84's. What I have noticed is that using 62 grains of Pyrodex RS behind a 435 grain 20-1 HB bullet yields a bit more velocity than loading 70 grains of FFg Swiss BP in the .45-70's. So I would say that the Pyrodex has a little more Oomph! About 100 fps out of the rifles and 70 or so out of the carbines. Clean up with either is hot water & Dawn dish soap, rinse with hot water, mop the bore well, rinse again with either Windex or water vinegar solution (window cleaner like in the old days, always have a spray bottle around), mop out again, and then slather with bore butter (always run a patch through it before using the gun again though). My buddy says to just run WD-40 through 'em after the hot water/patch dry cycle, but that sounds too easy.

[2571]

Had the same problem, but I found that there are individuals that buy a lot at one time to allay the hazerdous shipping and they are willing to part with a pound from time to time.

Local gun board warns that this sharing practice is illegal without appropriate sales licences. Major change in enforcement since 911.

Dispatched two F-16's to escort a passenger flight here yesterday because 2 people were in bathroom together. Investigation indicates they were not planning terrorism but having sexual relations.

If they dispatch jets about casual sex, you know they'd lock you up for contraverting bp laws.

[J Miller]

Some things will cause a chemical reaction. I used the pyrodex and the lubed wads under the bullet to help with the horrid gunk that the pyrodex alone caused. No idea if it was a bullet lube issue as well. But all I do know is after the pyrodex I have a pitted gun. I'm not into the old black powder guns, so I do not "need" that type of powder.

Smokeless will be fine.

Joe

[pokey]

Local gun board warns that this sharing practice is illegal without appropriate sales licences.

I sold pokey 5 pounds of 2f just the other day. He picked it up on his way home from work.

sshhhhh

thanks man.

[Charles]

There are so many insurance restrictions and local fire code regulations on the storage of more than a few pounds of black powder that most gun shops stopped stocking it.

So most shooters buy it direct and often go together in the purchase.