Winchester 94 dilemma... solved

[ryangrey]

Well folks I was going to use my first post here to ask a question but while I was waiting on admin approval I emailed Mr. Young with my question. Since Im guessing Im not the only knucklehead who breaks things I figure Ill post the question and answer.

Anyways, I just moved to CT and had to sell my AK so I made a trade for a Winchester 94 Canadian Centennial carbine. It is in good shape but not a collector. I bought it as a hunter/shooter. After installing an xs front stripe sight, williams 5-d peep sight I found that it likes 170 grain core-lokts the best with 3 shots in 1" at 50 yards.

My next project was to refinish the stock will an oil finish. Ive been using Watco Danish Oil for a while on all my wood stocks and really like how easy it goes on, how well it holds up, and how it looks. The buttstock was a breeze and even though most here surely turns up the nose at 1967 winchester 94s, the wood is really nice, simple but nice. At 27 Im thankfull I can appreciates a simple piece of strait grained walnut with just a hint of figure. The forearm on the other hand... not so much (the wood is nice, the removal was the issue).

I read a few places online that the tube should just pull out without removing the pin on the bracket. Wrong. I thought maybe 45 years of crud glued them together and twisted a bit to hard and broke the magazine hanger. ERRRRR!!! Storry of my life. I ordered a new one but couldnt figure out how to remove the piece still stuck in the barrel.

I emailed Steve Young after reading a lot about him here (ive been lurking 5-6 years). And the answer issssss, it twists on.

I cant tell you how much pounding he saved me. And I would have pounded it out too.

I hope this posts helps someone, someday.

[Old Savage]

Welcome and nice that you are making progress with that rifle.

[buckeyeshooter]

I hope I am misunderstanding your post and you were not forced to sell your AK because you moved to a new state? Anyway, an extra lever gun is always good!

[ryangrey]

Yes sir, in CT you can have an AK-74 as long as it doesnt have a a bayonet lug, or flash surpressor but you cannot have an AK-47 of any type. Why? because its 762 as apposed to 5.45. Although you can have a mini 30, sks, or vz58s which are all chambered in 762 soviet.

[Griff]

Most HERE would not turn up their nose at a 1967 Canadian Centennial.

Besides, that nice old levergun don't scare the neighbors like that nasty AK... although it probably SHOULD!

I recently decided I needed an 1897 Winchester... but every one I've seen of the originals at my budget level has already been shot out by some CAS shooter that abused it... so I decided on a clone... 20" Riot barrel or 20" Trench gun? I went with the Trench Gun with it's bayonet lug... to quote a forum member, "Because I CAN!"

[Malamute]

I'm curious, have you actually removed the old broken magazine ring yet?

The older guns had magazine rings that did twist in the barrel, the newer ones like your Canadian Centenial, I believe, were spot welded or sweated on. I bought a Buffalo Bill barrel with a broken ring, the guy gave me a new ring with it, it isnt anything like the old rings that twist in. The base is flat and square, no dovetail of any sort, rotary or square. The old piece doesnt twist out either, it's VERY firmly attached to the barrel.

So, I'm curious if you got the old piece out yet? If it's the old rotary type, I wonder when they changed to the welded/sweated rings?

[pokey]

welcome home,

i've rebuilt/refinished a few '94s, because i can.
yup there are a few little tricks that you need to know.

only trouble is, i can't see the PICS you must have posted.

[ryangrey]

I'm curious, have you actually removed the old broken magazine ring yet?

The older guns had magazine rings that did twist in the barrel, the newer ones like your Canadian Centenial, I believe, were spot welded or sweated on. I bought a Buffalo Bill barrel with a broken ring, the guy gave me a new ring with it, it isnt anything like the old rings that twist in. The base is flat and square, no dovetail of any sort, rotary or square. The old piece doesnt twist out either, it's VERY firmly attached to the barrel.

So, I'm curious if you got the old piece out yet? If it's the old rotary type, I wonder when they changed to the welded/sweated rings?

Im thinking this one might also be sweated on, cause it aint twisting. If it is I may wait for the new part then file the old piece so I can fit the new one inside of it and maybe silver solder it.

Sorry no pics, I only have film cameras.

[Griff]

They do just twist in. Winchester didn't sweat or solder them in place. They don't have to. The wide dovetail with the ring in place is held by the tube from twisting or moving. If it's tight, a close fitting dowel or rod will give you the leverage you need. You mag tube itself is usually enough, but... they can bend before the ring will move. Use a little penetrating oil to loosen any corrosion or crud that's in there.

[ryangrey]

good to know, except the hole is gone. Reapplying elbow grease now after a 1/2 bottle of whiskey

[ryangrey]

They do just twist in. Winchester didn't sweat or solder them in place. They don't have to. The wide dovetail with the ring in place is held by the tube from twisting or moving. If it's tight, a close fitting dowel or rod will give you the leverage you need. You mag tube itself is usually enough, but... they can bend before the ring will move. Use a little penetrating oil to loosen any corrosion or crud that's in there.

Then this rifle is one of a kind because it is not twisted on

[J Miller]

Disassemble the magazine from the barrel, remove the forearm and cap. Take rifle and new barrel hanger to a gunsmith and have him remove and replace it. They know how to things like this with minimal finish damage.
The cost is also a lot less when compared to the aggravation of trying to do it yourself.

Joe

[Griff]

They do just twist in. Winchester didn't sweat or solder them in place. They don't have to. The wide dovetail with the ring in place is held by the tube from twisting or moving. If it's tight, a close fitting dowel or rod will give you the leverage you need. You mag tube itself is usually enough, but... they can bend before the ring will move. Use a little penetrating oil to loosen any corrosion or crud that's in there.

Then this rifle is one of a kind because it is not twisted on

Well... maybe it ain't. Here's a pic of my 1894-1994 Centennial barrel from the side and bottom. The ring came installed with the forearm tenon. I ain't had a reason to take 'em out, as they'll just get used the way they are. Bottom pic is of my 1972 mdl 64A ring from the side.







Of my early rifles (3), only one has been apart, and it's ring is just like the one on my '73 Uberti and '86 Browning. It looks similar to these, except it is wider, and when removed, you can see the very slight radius of the dovetail and the ring, but when installed it appears to be a straight dovetail.

My disassembly instructions are only for a carbine, and for a pre-64 at that. My Numrich barrel used this same twist in ring as the early guns.

Joe is right, but... I'm very leery of taking my leverguns to your "run-of-the-mill" gunsmith... sometimes they think they know more than they do... like apparently I did. You might contact Mike Hunter and ask if he knows for sure. Hunter Restorations