Question on Model 94 Winchester problem

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:04 pm

My friend has a model 94 Winchester, one of the commemoratives, that we are getting rigged up for silhouette. The problem arises when trying to close the bolt on a round, the last 1/4 inch or so of the lever travel is very stiff and hard to close, then if you put enough pressure on it, it sort of snaps on closed. Anybody had this problem??

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:08 pm

Might be the little snap-catch thingie that holds the lever closed needs to be cleaned and oiled. (pardon the technical jargon)

LeverBar · Post by **LeverBar** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:10 pm

If the rounds are reloads, it could be that the case was not properly sized, or the crimp is excessive. Maybe too the OAL is too long, and you are jamming the slug against the lands.

???????

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:19 pm

I had one like that once. If I single loaded it it acted exactly as you described.
If I fed the rounds through the magazine and action it was still stiffish, but not as bad.

What I figured out was the extractor was very tight on that carbine and rough too.
I didn't alter it's tension, but I did polish the forward angled area that slides up and over the case rim. It helped some.
The other thing you can check is the ejector. The spring loaded gizmo at the bottom of the front end of the bolt. It should not bind up. It should move freely although it will take some pressure.

Joe

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:19 pm

Sounds like it's the extractor snapping over the rim of the shell. It may need to break in some. A light, careful polish of the angle on the front of it may help, but I would leave it alone. The spring is very strong in any event, and very positive. At that same moment, the ejector is being pushed in, adding to the resistance.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:02 pm

LeverBar wrote:If the rounds are reloads, it could be that the case was not properly sized, or the crimp is excessive. Maybe too the OAL is too long, and you are jamming the slug against the lands.

???????

Thanks, LeverBar, none of the above are occurring.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:04 pm

Just in case, If you have mouted a scope some times the srews that hold the mount on can pass through the action to much and pinch the bolt in it's rails. Just athought as this happened to me.
Nath.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:12 pm

Thanks, Nath, no scope.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 pm

Your description raises several questions for me... before I could formulate an answer beyond what you've been given already.

Have you fed the cartridges into the chamber from the top, by hand?

If so, do they slide in easily, or are they stopping before the rim is fully against the breech of the barrel?

What bullet, shape, size and weight are you using?

What diameter are the bullets; are you using store-boughts, pre-lubed, or are you lubri-sizing them yourself.

Are you full length sizing the brass?

I have a couple of others, but that'll do for starters.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:28 pm

Hey, jnyork, did you find the problem yet?

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:37 pm

Griff wrote:Your description raises several questions for me... before I could formulate an answer beyond what you've been given already.

Have you fed the cartridges into the chamber from the top, by hand?

If so, do they slide in easily, or are they stopping before the rim is fully against the breech of the barrel?

What bullet, shape, size and weight are you using?

What diameter are the bullets; are you using store-boughts, pre-lubed, or are you lubri-sizing them yourself.

Are you full length sizing the brass?

I have a couple of others, but that'll do for starters.

Doesnt matter if fed from mag or directly into the action. Cartridges fed into the chamber go all the way in easily.

Bullets are 170 grain cast flat nose .sized .309, prelubed. Cant imaging what the lube would have to do with this problem.

Brass is full lenght sized. New brass has same problem.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:58 am

jnyork wrote:
Griff wrote:Your description raises several questions for me... before I could formulate an answer beyond what you've been given already.
Have you fed the cartridges into the chamber from the top, by hand?
If so, do they slide in easily, or are they stopping before the rim is fully against the breech of the barrel?
What bullet, shape, size and weight are you using?
What diameter are the bullets; are you using store-boughts, pre-lubed, or are you lubri-sizing them yourself.
Are you full length sizing the brass?
I have a couple of others, but that'll do for starters.
Doesnt matter if fed from mag or directly into the action. Cartridges fed into the chamber go all the way in easily.
Bullets are 170 grain cast flat nose .sized .309, prelubed. Cant imaging what the lube would have to do with this problem.
Brass is full lenght sized. New brass has same problem.

Got a couple of my 94s out last nite to look at and without being able to see the gun you need diagnosed, I have two other things for you to look at.
1) The firing pin striker could be sticking forward. Does the problem go away if the action is worked with the muzzle up? You can watch the striker as the Locking Lug rises into battery behind the Bolt. The forward portion of striker can slightly hang up on the underside of the bolt or firing pin as it rises. The firing pin striker should move freely in the locking lug.

2) The pin thru the link and lever may be off-center and catching on the underside of the receiver.

I suspect it may be #1 as one of my 1978 94s has a little "hitch" in its final closing into full battery if the muzzle is pointed downward and the action is cycled slowly. It then seems to "snap" into full battery. When worked normally it isn't noticeable... or at least I've never noticed before!

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:51 pm

OK, fellers, I have closely examined this rifle again for all the potential problems you have outlined. I am convinced it is just the extractor riding up over the rim of the case. I guess maybe it will get better if he just shoots it a lot.

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:02 pm

Have you tried sooting?

You burn a candle, and roll the bullet over the flame to deposti a layerof soot.
Chamber the round, gently back it out and examine.

This wil tell you where exactly the case or bullet is touching, and if your cases are hanging up somewhere.

If for instanec, your case neck is jamming into the end of the chamber, it can cause the neck to crimp and may put you into unsafe pressures.

You might want to use a dummy round...

1886 · Post by **1886** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:45 pm

Forgive me if you have already tried but have you given factory fodder a go? I would try factory ammo before anything else. Regards. 1886.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:49 pm

It does it with an empty case, so I dont think it's the bullet. It does it with brand new cases or resized ones. The cases are about .012 under max.

1886 · Post by **1886** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:49 pm

I ask only because I have experienced a similar problem with two Marlin .30-30s, a slight crush fit when chambering reloads. The last little bit of lever throw was a bit tight. This would occur with full resized cases. I had a similar problem with a B 71 .348. Factory ammo was slick. I came to the conclusion that either the chambers were on the small side of spec, or the die was cut a little short, and or the shell holders were a little tall. One could file the shell holder down .002"-.003" and try chambering a sized case or one could chuck the die into a lathe and take a little off the bottom of the die to shorten it and size a case and give it a go. I decided to file the shell holder down a bit as this was the easiest and cheapest way to go. A slightly rough chamber could also be the culprit. I have never polished a chamber but I am sure there are others here who have. Do not take my observations as gospil. They are just thoughts based upon what you have described. I am certain that others will chime in. Between all the members I am confident your little challenge will be resolved. Regards. 1886.