Good news from Mossberg

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:02 am

For lever gunners that is. In this month's edition of Guns & Ammo there is a brief interview with Iver Mossberg and he states that the plain Jane .30-30 is just the start - we should expect many other chamberings and stock configurations and octagonal barrels as well on their 464 lever gun. Good to hear!

I'll believe it when product hits the shelves but I'd love to see it. Heck, I'd love to see Mossberg get creative and neck down the 7-30 Waters to 6.5mm and call it the 6.5mm Mossberg or something like that. A guy can dream! But .44 Mag and a few other rounds seem like easy choices.

Cheers,
Oly

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:20 am

Well, I don't know, I looked at the current offering and it just doesn't excite me at all. They would have to refine it a lot before I would be interested, and there are just too many old Winchesters, and Brownings can still be found, even nice older Marlins, to consider the Mossberg offering

I maybe wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mossberg doesn't end dropping the 464 in a few years if not before.

wm · Post by wm » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:42 am

Wouldn't a 7-30 Waters neck down to 6.5 be almost identical to the 6.8 SPC? Not that a rimmed version, with good sporting bullets in a lever action carbine would be a bad thing.

I often hoped that Marlin would offer a 336 in 6.8 SPC but I think I might be one of 5 or 6 guys in the entire world who think that would be a great combination.

Wm

P.S. Just an FYI for those not entirelyfaimliar with the 6,8 SPC.....it is base on a necked down 30 Remington case and a .27 bullet. The 30 Remington cartridge was a rimless version of the 30-30 developed for use in Remington model 14 & 8 rifles. And the 7-30 Waters was a 30-30 necked down to .28 caliber bullets to duplicate the performance of the 7X57mm in a lever action. The 7X57mm was cutting edge technology in the 1890s and the 6,8 SPC is cutting in edge now.

HMMMMMMMMM

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:18 am

wm wrote:I often hoped that Marlin would offer a 336 in 6.8 SPC but I think I might be one of 5 or 6 guys in the entire world who think that would be a great combination.

Make that "6 or 7". . .

How about a 'family' of cartridges based on the .35 Remington case?

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:36 am

Lastmohecken wrote:Well, I don't know, I looked at the current offering and it just doesn't excite me at all. They would have to refine it a lot before I would be interested, and there are just too many old Winchesters, and Brownings can still be found, even nice older Marlins, to consider the Mossberg offering

I may be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mossberg doesn't end dropping the 464 in a few years if not before.

I'm not sure how many they've sold but the gun is a staple in every major retailer in my town and as much as we gun nuts may find the concept strange it's simply a fact that many average Joe and Josephines buy their guns from places like that vs. local gun shops, so I suspect they've moved a few. Certainly Mossberg himself seemed mighty enthused about it and the upcoming variants.

I do hope, however, that they continue to refine it. The only major issue I've had with some I've handled was wood to metal fit but I will say that the gap was absolutely uniform, as if a computer had decided that a half millimeter gap was correct and made sure that there was EXACTLY a half millimeter gap between all of the wood and metal. It was odd.

Oly

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:47 am

The newer ones I have seen look good. Some won't but I like the checkered pistol grip stock.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:48 am

All they have to do is get rid of the huge tang saftey and rebounding hammer, I will then try one. the one I looked at was just like a mattel toy from the 1960's. and I grew up shooting Mossbergs but not this one.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:19 am

wm wrote:Wouldn't a 7-30 Waters neck down to 6.5 be almost identical to the 6.8 SPC? Not that a rimmed version, with good sporting bullets in a lever action carbine would be a bad thing.

I often hoped that Marlin would offer a 336 in 6.8 SPC but I think I might be one of 5 or 6 guys in the entire world who think that would be a great combination.

Wm

P.S. Just an FYI for those not entirelyfaimliar with the 6,8 SPC.....it is base on a necked down 30 Remington case and a .27 bullet. The 30 Remington cartridge was a rimless version of the 30-30 developed for use in Remington model 14 & 8 rifles. And the 7-30 Waters was a 30-30 necked down to .28 caliber bullets to duplicate the performance of the 7X57mm in a lever action. The 7X57mm was cutting edge technology in the 1890s and the 6,8 SPC is cutting in edge now.

EXACTLY! I should have known some other lever-nut would "get it". Yes indeed, a modern 6.5-30 would be much like the 6.8 SPC (or the 6.5mm Grendel) and doesn't that make you think of the 6.5mm Swede? Unlike the auto rifles the lever round would not have issues with overall cartridge length so one could even use those 140 or 160 grain projectiles that the Swedes so love for Moose. In any case, I'd love to see Mossberg work with Hornady to gin up this round and introduce it in a special variant of their 464. As with most new cartridges it would simply be a repackaging of something already done but that doesn't matter - folks like something new and 6.5mm chamberings are the du jour favorites (for good reason if you ask me).

Cheers,
Oly

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:25 am

You are not about to see any gun company anytime soon get rid of any safeties. They more likely may put in a cross bolt and a tang in combo much like that two safety gun - the 1911. Well that is a grip frame but you get the idea. Better buy old guns.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:26 am

.45colt wrote:All they have to do is get rid of the huge tang saftey and rebounding hammer, I will then try one.

That's not going to happen for the same reasons Winchester and Browning are not going to get rid of rebounding hammers and tang safeties, but I will say that a firing pin block safety such as the Rossi is using is another option.

Oly

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:27 am

Old Savage wrote:Some won't but I like the checkered pistol grip stock.

Me too. I think it's a fine looking gun but they're hard to find.

Best,
Oly

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:34 am

olyinaz wrote:
Old Savage wrote:Some won't but I like the checkered pistol grip stock.
Me too. I think it's a fine looking gun but they're hard to find.

Best,
Oly

that is a nice looking rifle. OJ and a couple of others on here had poor experiences with the early rifles though --- hope they have them fixed

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:36 am

--- dbl quote

wm · Post by wm » Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:15 pm

Local gun shop has 2 Mossbergs on the racks.....one used, must be a very early one and one that is brand new from the distributor.

My honest impression is that the new one is much better fit & finish though I have no doubt they are equals mechanically. The new one as i said is better fit & finish wise but it still is a long way from a pre 64 or even a good post 64 Winchester.

I'd buy one in an interesting caliber but not in 30 WCF. For the same $ I can get a Win or Marlin. If Mossberg (or Rossi with their Rio Grande version of the Marlin 336) wants my buisness they need to offer their carbine and/or rifle in something I can't get otherwise.

A couple of suggestions......6.5-30 Mossberg (for lack of a better name), 7-30 Waters, 6.8 SPC , 250 Savage, 300 Savage, 35 Rem, 41 Mag, 44 Mag, 32 mag, 327 mag, 38 Super, 358/356 Win, 444 Marlin, 7.62X39mm, 32 win spl, 32-40, 45 ACP, and 357 mag.

I know some of these suggested calibers would have a small market ( so they would only be offered for a few years as a limited run......it has been done before successfully) and some of these cartridges could present some engineering challenges but until someone convinces me it can't be done I choose to believe there is a way.

For example I have heard a dozen times on this board that the Win 94/92 can not be chambered in a rimless cartridge but no one can tell me why they can't but the Savage 99 and Marlin 336 can be.

I do know that Winchester did build some experimental prototype rifles chambered in 300 Savage before they introduced the 307 Win. The descion to go forward with the 307 and scrap the 300 Sav had to do with marketing (the 300 Sav was thought to be obsolete and the 307 was easily associated with the very modern 308 Win). There may have been some production or functional issues as well but I don't know.

Wm

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:28 pm

maybe someday "after" I wear out my winchesters

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:12 pm

wm wrote:And the 7-30 Waters was a 30-30 necked down to .28 caliber bullets to duplicate the performance of the 7X57mm in a lever action.

No kidding? I never knew that and as a fan of the 7x57, I may have to keep an eye out now...

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:18 pm

awp101 wrote:
wm wrote:And the 7-30 Waters was a 30-30 necked down to .28 caliber bullets to duplicate the performance of the 7X57mm in a lever action.
No kidding? I never knew that and as a fan of the 7x57, I may have to keep an eye out now...

http://fiveshot.org/backissues/paco/730waters.htm

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:22 pm

I've sold Winchesters, Marlins, Rossis, but never a Mossberg lever gun. I think the ONE we have in the shop has been there since they were first released. NOBODY ever looks at after seeing the Mossberg label.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:01 pm

Old Savage wrote:You are not about to see any gun company anytime soon get rid of any safeties. They more likely may put in a cross bolt and a tang in combo much like that two safety gun - the 1911.

Man, I really liked the 1911, until you pointed out how many safeties it has. . . now I guess I'll have to call it 'trash', along with the cross-bolt safety Marlins. . .

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:01 pm

Hobie wrote:I've sold Winchesters, Marlins, Rossis, but never a Mossberg lever gun. I think the ONE we have in the shop has been there since they were first released. NOBODY ever looks at after seeing the Mossberg label.

Could have something to do with the attitude of the salesmen in the shop? Are you and the rest of the staff unfavorably inclined towards Mossberg?

Oly

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:07 pm

wm wrote:I'd buy one in an interesting caliber but not in 30 WCF. For the same $ I can get a Win or Marlin. If Mossberg (or Rossi with their Rio Grande version of the Marlin 336) wants my buisness they need to offer their carbine and/or rifle in something I can't get otherwise.

Yes, that's my feeling as well. Even Henry makes a .30-30 but it's little more than a curiosity given the half dozen used 94s and 336s on my local shop's racks at any given time. If they offer it in an interesting caliber and especially with an octagonal barrel I'll be VERY interested.

Oly

Newtmaker · Post by **Newtmaker** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:15 pm

I am actually quite interested in getting one of these in the future simply because I can easily put a scope on it. My eyesight isn't as good as it once was and I find even my Marbles Tang sight on my M92 is limited after 50 yards.
One of the regulars at our gun range has one with scope and I have shot it a few times. It is accurate, well put together, and the price is right when you shop around.

Walt

RustyJr · Post by **RustyJr** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:34 am

I noticed that many of the cartridges that are being mentioned are typically loaded with pointed bullets from the factory. With the tubular magazine one would be resticted to one in the chamber and one in the magazine. I think Mossberg would have to come out with a completely different design/copy of a leveraction in order to chamber some of the rounds that are being mentioned.

RustyJr

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:08 am

RustyJr wrote:I noticed that many of the cartridges that are being mentioned are typically loaded with pointed bullets from the factory. With the tubular magazine one would be resticted to one in the chamber and one in the magazine. I think Mossberg would have to come out with a completely different design/copy of a leveraction in order to chamber some of the rounds that are being mentioned.

Naah, Hornady solved that issue with its LEVERevolution ammo. They use a flexible red plastic tip that allows a full spitzer bullet to be safely loaded in tubular magazines. It's great stuff:

http://www.hornady.com/store/LEVERevolution-FTX/

Oly

wm · Post by wm » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:44 am

Or you could borrow the braided magazine tube design that Remington used on their early pump action rifles.

Wm

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:49 pm

Just discovered that stainless is available now:

Davidson's exclusive at this time.

Oly

wm · Post by wm » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:23 pm

A stainless one in 7-30 Waters for $500 would have me very interested.

Wm

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:09 pm

I handled a blued one at the SHOT SHOW the year they came out. I was thoroughly underwhelmed. The wood looked like the birch of an old Enfield, fit and finish was, well, looking back at it, it was the worst of any levergun I saw that whole show. I know that for some on a very restricted budget it will hit a nice accessable price point but jeez, better to buy something nicer used IMHO. If your into the unglamorous and functional equivalent of a "blued toaster" this is your levergun.
-Tutt

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:57 pm

CowboyTutt wrote:I handled a blued one at the SHOT SHOW the year they came out. I was thoroughly underwhelmed. The wood looked like the birch of an old Enfield, fit and finish was, well, looking back at it, it was the worst of any levergun I saw that whole show. I know that for some on a very restricted budget it will hit a nice accessable price point but jeez, better to buy something nicer used IMHO. If your into the unglamorous and functional equivalent of a "blued toaster" this is your levergun. - Tutt

That's the straight grip model and yep, the early ones had wood like my 90's Winchester or my Marlin Glenfield - pretty bad. The ones I'm seeing on the rack today seem better and the pistol grip model uses walnut. The stainless unit in the pictures looks to be laminated.

At any rate, it puts some truth to the idea that Mossberg is not going to give up on this gun quickly and I like that.

Oly

Mutt · Post by **Mutt** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:50 am

I hope that they succeed . More companies selling means more of us working . Hopefully. I believe big or small , anyone into the firearms
is ok with me. Plus I do have several lever guns , but I always seem to want more. Probably if I could afford it I'd buy a Mossberg .30.30 .
Why .30.30 ? Cause all my rifles are 30.30's . I just like that cartridge !
At this age I can like anything I want

,,,,,,,,,,,,,Mutt

crystal river charli · Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:15 am

olyinaz wrote:Just discovered that stainless is available now:

Davidson's exclusive at this time.

Oly

Think I'm gonna order one for Christmas.

Charlie

B-92 Steven · Post by **B-92 Steven** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:19 am

I am sorry to say (type) that I would not buy the current Winchester 94 made in Japan. I will consider buying the Mossberg 464. The stainless steel does look nice.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:39 am

B-92 Steven wrote:I am sorry to say (type) that I would not buy the current Winchester 94 made in Japan. I will consider buying the Mossberg 464. The stainless steel does look nice.

There are no Mdl 94 Winchesters other than the Oliver Winchester commemoratives being made in Japan. And those are so over priced as to be a joke.
There has been no production 94s since the plant closed in '06.

olyinaz wrote:Just discovered that stainless is available now:
<snip>
Davidson's exclusive at this time.

Oly

That stainless one is even uglier than the blue one. But if they have the bugs worked out of it, it would make a good truk gun. I'd like to look at one.

....................................................

Has anybody here bought and used one of the current production guns???? We've all read OJ's and some others stories about those they had trouble with, but that was well over a year ago.
How about those made now? Any reports?

Joe

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:55 am

Joe wrote;Has anybody here bought and used one of the current production guns???? We've all read OJ's and some others stories about those they had trouble with, but that was well over a year ago.
How about those made now? Any reports?
My thoughts exactly. OJ's experience with Mossberg was pretty bad.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:29 pm

If they offer it in .25-.35 I will buy one.
I will then re-chamber it to .25 Bullberry,
and proceed to do whatever it takes to make it shoot.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:00 pm

mescalero2 wrote:If they offer it in .25-.35 I will buy one. I will then re-chamber it to .25 Bullberry, and proceed to do whatever it takes to make it shoot.

LOL.

Or hey, even better a new round called .25 Mossberg - the 7-30 Waters necked down to quarter bore with the ideal to meet or exceed .257 Bob.

Cheers,
Oly

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:21 am

No way a 7-30 Waters lever action is ever going to equal a 7x57mm is a bolt gun. THe 7x57 can be loaded to higher pressure and it has larger case capacity enabling if to reach the same performance with lower pressures.

wm · Post by wm » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:19 am

You are right BAGTIC the 7-30 Waters did fall just a few 100 fps short with the powders available back in the late 70s and early 80s. But with newer powders the 7-30 Waters has closed the gap some.

As far as case capacity goes think of it in the same terms as the 300 WSM vs the 300 Win mag.

And keep in mind Waters was trying to match the original 7X57mm ballistics and not what the 7mm became over time.

Wm

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:59 pm

wm wrote:And keep in mind Waters was trying to match the original 7X57mm ballistics and not what the 7mm became over time.

Exactly.

Oly

OJ · Post by OJ » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:01 pm

I had planned to skip this but felt one thing needed to be added to the volumes said in past.

I was put out that the rifle had a part - extractor - fail before the first magazine full (6 rounds) was fired - requiring a trip back to repair center at my expense. Upon return, another part - forend screw - broke before any use - just was loading it. Mossberg wanted me to send it back again but I finally convinced them I had a screwdriver and didn't want any more expense to make the rifle useful.

ANYNow. I have felt Mossberg didn't do ANY test firing or those defective parts would have been found and replaced.

Equally bothersome - to me at least - has been Mossberg has shown absolutely NO INTEREST OR CONCERN FOR CUSTOMERS WHO BOUGHT THEIR NEW RIFLES AND EXPERIENCED PROBLEMS FROM THE BEGINNING.

I REFUSE TO DEAL WITH ANY BUSINESS OR MANUFACTURER THAT EXHIBITS THAT ATTITUDE TOWARD THEIR CUSTOMERS.

YMMV

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:21 am

I would like to see mossberg make a high quality copy of the 9422 and 9422m

the mossberg pic above looks realy good...
looks like the fit and finish has improved....

wm · Post by wm » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:29 am

I agree Rimfire but I doubt you'll see it.

I thought Taurus had a winner with their short lived lever action 22lr, and it should have been fairly inexpensive to produce with something like 75% of i'ts parts inter- changed with their long running line of pump action rimfires but those rifles came and went in a blink of an eye.

Obviously they did not sell well.

Wm

kaferhaus · Post by **kaferhaus** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:30 am

I have one of the new straight stock models. It's not as pretty as my Winchesters or Marlins but honestly it will out shoot the other 7 lever guns I own. I get consistent 100yd .75" groups with Fed. 170s out of it. Not one group here and there but repeatedly. I have a couple hundred rounds through it with no issues.

I have no idea what they sell for anywhere else but around here they're going for 399.00

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:41 am

On the early ones that I handled (never fired one), the real turn off was the wood. The pictures of the walnut stocked ones look pretty good to me. If the price was right, I would try one.

I have had good luck with Mossbergs, I have an 835 3 1/2" (gift from my wife from our first Xmas together 1990) and a 590A1 with Ghost Ring sights. Never had a problem with either one. The tang safeties are easy to operate on them and to me would be preferable to a crossbolt safety on a levergun (safeties ARE here to stay).

Of course, I still enjoy shooting my Western Field version of the Mossberg 472...