OT- CZ 527 carbine

[pwl44m]

Random misfire-is it the ammo or the gun.This is a bolt gun in 7.62X39. fairly new gun that I took in trade.Got a box of win ammo with it/123 gr full metal jacket.3 out of the box of 20 did not fire. The firing pin punched but no ignition. Tried them again and nada. after 3 or 4 attempts they finally fired. I noticed as I was putting the empty cases back in the box that the 3 that did not fire at first- the Primers were backed out a bit.
I can't see this being the Gun. Now I'm thinking - is it a good practice to try and fire them again.
I will try to get some pics of the gun and the spent rounds.
Of course I will try some diff. ammo also. Was hoping to see how the little Guy shoots but that will have to wait.


Got some Pics

[stew71]

Sounds like faulty ammo. I wonder if Winchester has their 7.62x39 loaded overseas in some former ComBloc nation....

[pwl44m]

Box says made in U.S.A.
They were sold by CVS . some one wanted to shoot real bad /$15.99 for the box of 20
U can see the 3 on the right burned all the way through.

[Hobie]

I'd have it checked for excessive headspace. HOWEVER, if every other 7.62x39 round you shove in there goes off I'd have to say you got a bad lot of Winchester. It has been known to happen.

[pwl44m]

The only primers that backed out were the 3 that did not fire first time around. Not that it can't be a headspace prob. The Gun is barely a year old and looks very lightly used.
I think I will contact Win and send them some Pics.can't hurt.

[O.S.O.K.]

Its not the rifle. And the three duds were probably not igniting the propellant completely - causing lower pressures - that can cause the primers to do that.

[Hobie]

I see, it was only those three, then I agree that it was likely the ammo. Go buy some more, different ammo and see how it performs. CZ has very good QC, it would have been unusual but not unheard of for one of their guns to have headspace problems. However, I have sometimes seen ammo too short in the length to shoulder dimension which is the same thing. Come to think of it, doesn't the 427 have a claw extractor? That should hold the case against the bolt face.

[kasTX]

Failures to fire are somewhat common on the 7.62x39 CZ-527, apparently. I have had the same problem with mine. CZ will send you a stronger firing pin spring if you call them, but the one they sent me was too long, and I had to cut it to get it to work. I never had a primer back out though.

[Lawyer Daggit]

This is common with this model. Winchester (Olin) (the CZ agent in Australia) no longer import this model because of this, and swopped the one I had, several years after I purchased it new, and all of my ammo etc over to a .223 model.

The CZ is built to tight tolerances, and the eastern block 7.62x39 has apparently got slightly different dimensions to the one SAAMI approved. You should be OK with ex mil ammo and commercial eastern block ammo from Wolf etc, but ANY SAAMI spec ammo will have a considerable misfire rate.

Do not let anyone talk you into a stronger firing pin or anything like that- such a modification could prove dangerous because the problem you have arises from headspacing.

The fault is not CZ's it is SAAMI's- why they had the arrogance to deviate from the Soviet standard is beyond me.

[txpete]

if you handload try some different primers.rem/federal I would bet would solve your problem.I would bet the primers they are using are very hard as the sks and AK 47 don't use a firing pin return spring and when the firing pin gets dirty they have been known to go full auto or have slam fires.my first sks ($69.00) norinco did this as I didn't get all the cosmo out of the firing pin channel.
pete

[pwl44m]

Went to town today and bought 10 boxes of Russian stuff from Wally World. Tried 1 box and they all went boom, now My shoulder is a little sore. Boy what a Flash out of that 18 in barrel. Maybe tomorrow after Church I can see what it will do on Paper.
Thx for all the replys,the Gun seems to be just fine. That is the problem with trades,never know what U R going to get.Now if the other 2 guns work I will be happy. The 3 I took in trade on the AR-15 were the CZ/ A Rock Island Armory 1911-45 with nite sights and 5 mags/and an Ithaca 12 ga over under like new in the box.
Happy Trails until I post again
BTW the ammo was $4.97 per box.

[olyinaz]

Sounds like a good reason to re-chamber it in 6.5mm Grendel.

Cheers,
Oly

[Lawyer Daggit]

As I say, the problem is SAAMI- I bet you will find a 100% fire rate- even if you come across some ammo with reputedly hard primers from eastern block countries.

I suspect someone just made a fractional error converting the standard from metric to US imperial.

Personally, if you are happy with Wolf I would not rechamber- otherwise I would kick up a stink and get the US importers to do what they did here.

[kasTX]

I suspect someone just made a fractional error converting the standard from metric to US imperial.

From what I have been able to find, it wasn't an error. A couple of rifle makers were making rifles chambered in 7.62x39, but with .308 bores, before there was a SAAMI spec, using data from Lapua. SAAMI then adopted this spec. It wasn't until the breakup of the USSR that the original, slightly different spec was standardized by CIP (European standards organization). So it would seem there are two standards out there for the same cartridge.

Which makes me wonder how hard it would be to get the CIP specification and have Lee/Hornady/RCBS/etc make a custom set of dies? Maybe they already do?

[pwl44m]

Personally, if you are happy with Wolf I would not rechamber- otherwise I would kick up a stink and get the US importers to do what they did here.


What did They do here ? I have a bunch of diff ammo to try. Even have some Tuna cans with strippers for SKS that I have had for 20 years.C if I can narrow it down to U.S. vs Foreign made ammo.It will basically be used for varmints as I dont Hunt any more. But I want it to fire when I pull the trigger.

[Lawyer Daggit]

Kastx- thanks, I had wondered about this.

I had a large quantity (two 1200 round cases) of Norinco ammo and tried dum dums for hunting- until a gunsmith pointed that ammo used projectiles with only a partially enclosed base- with the risk a jacket could strip and lodge in the bore.

The only available hunting ammo I could get (Wolf) is often hard to get hold of in Australia.

This lead to my decision to get rid of the rifle.

If you just want the rifle for plinking you may be happy with the accuracy of the mil spec or chi-com ammo and this may serve your purposes. For this purpose it is a neat little rifle and while I now have one in 223, I preferred 7.62 x39.

[O.S.O.K.]

Mine shoots great! But I've been shooting Wolf - and handloads. Apparently my handloads are OK - perhaps the dies are set-up properly?

I like to shoot 150 grain loads out of it - handloads. Seems the better choice bullet for any hunting. A 30-30 bullet is the best choice for expansion too for obvious reasons.

A fun, compact carbine:



Feeds very smoothly due to the single stack mag. The single-set trigger is great too once you get used to it.

This is a terrific companion to an SKS or AKM.

[awp101]

A fun, compact carbine:

I'd really like one of those to go with my .22H 527. I may have to come down there, kick you in the shin and grab it while you're hopping around...

[kasTX]

Wolf has worked fine in mine, but I get better accuracy with handloads, so that is what I generally shoot. Reliability was 100% until, you guessed it, I pulled the trigger on a nice doe and it went "click" instead of "boom". Even 75 yards away that doe heard the click and took off. I ordered the new spring as soon as I got back home. Seems OK now, but I haven't put very many rounds through it yet.

As a side note, I sent an e-mail to Redding a couple days ago to inquire about dies machined to the original specification. No word yet.

[pwl44m]

@ O.S.O.K. what scope do U have on Yours ? I put on a Bushnell Sportsman Silver and the tube is too big and the Bolt wont open. I had the same trouble with that scope on a 22mag bolt rifle. so now I need another scope.Somewhere around her I have an old Weaver 4 X that should work. I have to have a scope because My Eyes wont let Me see open Sights. It was all over the target. Got lucky and got 1 in the Bull though.

[Lawyer Daggit]

I put a second hand Leupold M8 compact on mine and it worked well. Note CZ produce mounts of various heights.