My Savage 10ML-II

[Swampman]

[HEAD0001]

I have read alot of good things about those rifles. When they first came out I was against them, but I really had no good reason to be against them. I am actually starting to warm up to them. I have a Knight LRH that I rally like, and it is also extremely accurate. However I just do not know how I feel about the modern MZ's.

I almost bought one of the Savages, but instead I bought a custom Southern Mountain Rifle in 36 caliber. I am going back to more traditional firearms-not sure why. I guess I just see them as more of a challenge. But there is room for all in this big world.

How about some range reports. Tom.

[Swampman]

I like and own several of both. Guns is guns....

[AJMD429]

I haven't shot mine all that much, but like the gun, and the concept. It seems very robust - in fact it is the only gun I've ever mounted a 30mm scope on and it didn't look out of proportion.

I can get 3 shots into a silver-dollar size at 100 yards without cleaning between shots. I mostly use AA-5744, but am going to try SR-4759 some more. A friend has several of the ML-II's, and can cloverleaf three shots at 100 yards consistently from at least a couple of them.

I really like the non-corrosive (or if you want to nit-pick, 'less-corrosive' - kind of like it isn't really 'smokeless', but 'less-smokey' ) powder concept. That, plus stainless metal, and it's kind of nice!

As far as being 'non-traditional' I don't care a bit - I'm simply out to harvest another couple weeks of potential deer meat, by extending the 'seasons' I can hunt in, and I also just enjoy ALL guns and their technologies and mechanisms. I can and do enjoy more 'authentic' old-time guns, and I surely appreciate the historic merit, craftsmanship, and extra skills one needs to hunt with them successfully. But when I have a couple hours after work to hunt, and as soon as I'm in the house, a million other things to get done OTHER than get out the soap-suds bucket and clean a muzzleloader, I'm gonna grab the Savage ML-II. Maybe if I ever get to retire (yeah, right, in this economy... ) I'll better appreciate the more authentic guns...

Like women, they're all beautiful in their own way.

[JB]

I've owned two fo the 10ml's and have never gotten the accuracy so many other seem to get. About the best consistent groups I can get with mine are in the 3" range at 100 yards. I haven't spent a ton of money on different powers, sabots and bullets though. Just 5744, Hornady 240's and 300's, with MML sabots.

[Griff]

At best I'll offer to "agree to disagree." In the majority of states, when ML hunts were 1st offered, these guns didn't exist. I am extremely pleased with those locales that have specically excluded them in order to maintain the primitive nature of their hunts.

Like my then 8 year old son said after shootin' his 1st squirrel w/grandpa, "...Sorry grandpa, usin' a scope is like cheatin'!"

[AJMD429]

I've owned two fo the 10ml's and have never gotten the accuracy so many other seem to get. About the best consistent groups I can get with mine are in the 3" range at 100 yards. I haven't spent a ton of money on different powers, sabots and bullets though. Just 5744, Hornady 240's and 300's, with MML sabots.

If it matters (many Savage shooters say they're very helpful, so I've not tried without them), I use the MMP 'sub-base' sabot, in addition to the 'high-pressure' MMP sabot between the sub-base and the bullet.

Sabot - http://www.mmpsabots.com/black.html

Sub-Base (MMP-BBSB on lower left of webpage) - http://www.mmpsabots.com/
Pic of Sub-Base - http://www.choiceaccessories.com/index. ... odID=73859

At best I'll offer to "agree to disagree." In the majority of states, when ML hunts were 1st offered, these guns didn't exist. I am extremely pleased with those locales that have specically excluded them in order to maintain the primitive nature of their hunts.

The thing is, the Savage ML-II is more like an 'ordinary' muzzleloader than it is a cartridge gun, in terms of the hunting, since you STILL are limited to essentially one shot. The differences are mostly cosmetic (stainless steel), durability (laminate wood or synthetic stocks), ease of cleaning (which has nothing to do with the hunting experience itself), in-line construction (again, pretty much only affecting ease of cleaning), and for that particular gun, smokelesss powders (which again, offers no ballistic advantage, but rather makes cleaning easier, and perhaps a bit more safe powder storage).

The two differences that make it easier to kill a deer with that gun than the 'regular' muzzleloaders are both things you can do with a 'regular' muzzleloader - a SCOPE, and use of SABOTED bullets. I see lots of people with old-fashioned ML guns who use scopes and sabots.

If the goal of ML season is to allow the more disciplined hunter time afield without the "blam-blam, I think I got him" cartridge-gun hunters out there, guns like the Savage ML-II don't do anything against that goal. Shooters of the more historically-authentic style who prefer 'primitive' style firearms during the ML season won't have a lesser experience afield if the guy on the next ridge is hunting with a synthetic-stocked, stainless, in-line, using smokeless powder, vs. if he has a walnut-stocked, blued, octagonal, brass-fitted side-lock using black powder. If anything competes 'unfairly' harvest-wise, it's the SCOPE and the SABOTED BULLETS.

If anything, prohibiting scopes and saboted bullets during 'muzzleloading' season would make more sense, than the laws which focus on COSMETIC issues or ones that increase durability or ease of maintenance. Laws like that remind me of the "assault weapon" bans!

[Griff]

<snip>The two differences that make it easier to kill a deer with that gun than the 'regular' muzzleloaders are both things you can do with a 'regular' muzzleloader - a SCOPE, and use of SABOTED bullets. I see lots of people with old-fashioned ML guns who use scopes and sabots.

If the goal of ML season is to allow the more disciplined hunter time afield without the "blam-blam, I think I got him" cartridge-gun hunters out there, guns like the Savage ML-II don't do anything against that goal. Shooters of the more historically-authentic style who prefer 'primitive' style firearms during the ML season won't have a lesser experience afield if the guy on the next ridge is hunting with a synthetic-stocked, stainless, in-line, using smokeless powder, vs. if he has a walnut-stocked, blued, octagonal, brass-fitted side-lock using black powder. If anything competes 'unfairly' harvest-wise, it's the SCOPE and the SABOTED BULLETS.

If anything, prohibiting scopes and saboted bullets during 'muzzleloading' season would make more sense, than the laws which focus on COSMETIC issues or ones that increase durability or ease of maintenance. Laws like that remind me of the "assault weapon" bans!

Now that we can agree on!

The concept of a smokeless muzzleloader is still hard for me to wrap my head around. Maybe I'll get there... maybe not! Regardless, you make valid points.

[Nath]

Say thats a funny looking hammer ont' side of that there front loader,,, wheres the nipple? Or is it a flinter

N.

[Swampman]

There are too many deer. How we harvest them isn't important. Since primitive weapons are more likely to wound and cause suffering perhaps we should outlaw them.

[AJMD429]

The concept of a smokeless muzzleloader is still hard for me to wrap my head around.

Ha..! Just think of it as "reduced-smoke blackpowder" - after all - it is black colored...

[encore4me]

There are too many deer. How we harvest them isn't important. Since primitive weapons are more likely to wound and cause suffering perhaps we should outlaw them.

Comments like this is just fule for the anti's We as hunters need to stick together and just be happy we CAN hunt! We need to fight the anti hunters not each other.



Matt

[Swampman]

I was making the point that inlines are just another method of harvesting game. Some folks hate them but I see them as safe and effective. Personally I don't approve of using assualt weapons in the game field but each to his own.

[Swampman]

I've owned two fo the 10ml's and have never gotten the accuracy so many other seem to get. About the best consistent groups I can get with mine are in the 3" range at 100 yards. I haven't spent a ton of money on different powers, sabots and bullets though. Just 5744, Hornady 240's and 300's, with MML sabots.

http://randywakeman.com/SevenstepsToSavageSuccess.htm

Lots of good info here.