Shortest lightest levergun still made?

[xxclaro]

Looking for a backpacking rifle and want something other than the 94 Big Bore .444 I've been carrying. I want the shortest lightest gun I can get in a caliber suitable for bear defense. To me that means at least .45 or .44 mag. What is currently available? Of course,reliability is a must. I really would rather not go the short barrel shotgun route, but I'm not sure if there's anything out there that'll compete. I can buy a pump 12ga with a 8.5 inch barrel(although I think I'd go with 12 inch) or a 14 inch with folding stock and still be within legal limits. With 3-4 good slugs it's a hard comb to beat, but I really like the lever's and would prefer to stay with them if I can find something suitable.

[20cows]

A winchester 94 trapper in 45 Colt. The big hole in the barrel, the cutaway for the angle-eject and the relatively hollow receiver would make it about as light a levergun as you're likely to find. You could change it to a button mag and make it lighter, but that costs you ammo.

[edwardyoung]

Mare's leg?

http://www.gunblast.com/Puma-MaresLeg.htm

[20cows]

That'd be pretty light!

[2X22]

A winchester 94 trapper in 45 Colt. The big hole in the barrel, the cutaway for the angle-eject and the relatively hollow receiver would make it about as light a levergun as you're likely to find.

Dang, you read my mind, even up to the .....45 Colt......

I took a Marlin Cowboy in .44 and cut the stock back a wee bit, for a short summer rifle and a heavy coat cold winter rifle, also cut the barrel back to 16 1/4". Makes for a perfect little trail rifle and in the correct caliber....

2x22

[Warhawk]

Stainless Rossi 92 Trapper

[xxclaro]

Anyone got length/weight for those rifles? They look great,and I'd be quite comfortable with a stout .45 load.

[adirondakjack]

I have a 16" marlin in .45 that has an octagon barrel and still only weighs exactly 6 lbs. A round barrel version would shed a pound I reckon.

It is 33" overall.

[KWK]

Cimarron reports their 16" 1892 Trapper weighs 5.5 lb in either .45 Colt or .44 Mag, with octagon barrel and full length magazine.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Stainless Rossi 92 Trapper

And they are available in 454 Casull. The 16" stainless weighs just under 6 lbs. I've sent a few of these to the Northwest, Canada and Alaska for backpacker bear medicine.

[bdhold]

not a lever, but for a comparison point (and a jewel mostly because of its light weight), the Uberti Baby Rolling Block 22" carbine weighs 4-1/2 lbs.

Even adding the short malcolm scope, mine weighs 5-1/2 lbs.


of course, it's a single shot...

[madman4570]

And they are available in 454 Casull. The 16" stainless weighs just under 6 lbs. I've sent a few of these to the Northwest, Canada and Alaska for backpacker bear medicine.

This could be a new favorite-----------I am drooling again! or with the 20" barrel at 6.1 pounds.

[brno602]

Hay did you not know Grizzly bears are now under the protected animal act in Alberta as of yesterday
Him or me ? I bought a 16'' Rossi For back packing fly fishing trips in 45 Colt with 300gr bullets going almost 1600fps it out penatrates a regular 12 ga slug on trees. I think the gun is about 5 lbs and holds lots of ammo 8 +1, that wieght would be unloaded.
I used to think a normal 20'' win 94 was tiny and trim, but this gun is trim.
I have seen a web site in Canada that had some Mules Leg's and they claim it is not a Restriced gun??? But just looking at the gun I don't think it would be good to fire full house 45s through and keep any control of it? I am still not sure if it is legal as the overall lenghth is 24'' It's something I should check out but it comes with a $1600.00 price tag.!
But if your really worried about Bears best lever would be a 1895 Marlin with a 18.5'' barrel stoked to the max with at least a 400gr bullets. But it still is not that light and a gun in hand is better than one straped to a backpack.
P.S any shotgun in Canada has to have a 18.5'' Barrel or longer to be legal But Rifles do not.

[2X22]

P.S any shotgun in Canada has to have a 18.5'' Barrel or longer to be legal But Rifles do not.

Could a rifle have a 14" barrel? Or like the US, does it have to be at least 16"?

2x22

[brno602]

P.S any shotgun in Canada has to have a 18.5'' Barrel or longer to be legal But Rifles do not.

Could a rifle have a 14" barrel? Or like the US, does it have to be at least 16"?

2x22

Not sure, it would have to meet a certain min length I know you can buy a Ruger 16'' barrel bolt gun or any of the trappers, what got me is seeing a ad for the mules leg at a ovl of 24'' as being legal so many loop holes and confusion? You just never know!
Rifle is say a .375H&H with a Super short barrel full length mag action and a normal length of pull it might be legal?.
I am not sure about that ad I seen they may have ment prohibited gun, of course if it was made as a rifle or pistol all things come into play?
I don't think the RCMP or Fish and Wildlife would really care, in my opinion they have better things to do. I am not the kind of guy that would try smuggling in B.C Bud!
But I have crossed into Montana wile a young man armed with a .44 mag, I broke the law here but not there. The Back country of Glacier Park in Montana has almost as many fatal bear attacks as Alaska. No fence on that boarder! No gaurds just a metal post in the ground saying you are now in the U.S.A . I even caught Montana Trout without a Montana fishing licence lol They have Stars and stripes rather than a Maple leaf on them,thats how you tell them apart I met Yanks doing the same thing on are side.
However now A Day's I would not be shocked to see a black helicoptor.
I will have to look into Canadian Regs on Rifles but I always thought a normal sized Rifle needed to have a 16'' barrel to meet the min length. But if your action is a .5'' longer and your butt stock a '' longer you will meet min length with say a 14.5'' barrel.
With a Rifle I know it has to meet a certain length nothing said about barrels as far as I know

[tman]

this doesn't answer your question, but the BB94 .444 LOADED WITH 7 ROUNDS , would build my confidense in big bear country. it's worth the slight weight and length difference cause a model 94 comes up to your shoulder like a fine english double. even the coreloc 240 will shoot thru a bear, and there's some EXTREME ammo out there that should handle the big 5 of Africa. just my thoughts.

[brno602]

this doesn't answer your question, but the BB94 .444 LOADED WITH 7 ROUNDS , would build my confidense in big bear country. it's worth the slight weight and length difference cause a model 94 comes up to your shoulder like a fine english double. even the coreloc 240 will shoot thru a bear, and there's some EXTREME ammo out there that should handle the big 5 of Africa. just my thoughts.

Well said, I was thinking of saying that. But had .44 cal bullets blow up on Deer out of my musket mind you I was pushing them at 2000fps+ out of my .54 with a sabot still killed Deer as if hit by lightning! yet blew a very big hole in them with lead and copper all over the place. Hard cast would be another story. He could always cut the barrel down on his .444 and still have a short kinda light package with lot's of punch too.I have been woofed at and growled at but never once did the Bear come towards me.They just let me know they did not like me there! I think they can read minds or body motion and know who not to really mess with if they want to see the next sun rise! I may have been sh***** bricks but so was the Bear!

[gak]

+1 - I would think a .45 Rossi 16" Trapper would be it...lighter than the same gun in octagonal configuration (Chiappa Trapper 92 from Cimarron) or Win 94--even with the latter's AE cut-out.

[Sarge]

Our 16" Puma in .45 Colt is so light & fast handling that it don't even feel like a rifle; but it will spit 335 Keiths at about 1365 fps when such loads are called for. I sure wouldn't feel nekkid with it (and the Old Vaquero) along.

[xxclaro]

Hay did you not know Grizzly bears are now under the protected animal act in Alberta as of yesterday
Him or me ? I bought a 16'' Rossi For back packing fly fishing trips in 45 Colt with 300gr bullets going almost 1600fps it out penatrates a regular 12 ga slug on trees. I think the gun is about 5 lbs and holds lots of ammo 8 +1, that wieght would be unloaded.
I used to think a normal 20'' win 94 was tiny and trim, but this gun is trim.
I have seen a web site in Canada that had some Mules Leg's and they claim it is not a Restriced gun??? But just looking at the gun I don't think it would be good to fire full house 45s through and keep any control of it? I am still not sure if it is legal as the overall lenghth is 24'' It's something I should check out but it comes with a $1600.00 price tag.!
But if your really worried about Bears best lever would be a 1895 Marlin with a 18.5'' barrel stoked to the max with at least a 400gr bullets. But it still is not that light and a gun in hand is better than one straped to a backpack.
P.S any shotgun in Canada has to have a 18.5'' Barrel or longer to be legal But Rifles do not.

Actually you can buy shotguns with barrels much shorter than 18.5 in Canada and still be completely legal and non-restricted. There is currently a 870 copy with an 8.5" barrel tha's legal,although it doesn't interest me. I believe the overall length must be at least 26.5 or thereabouts though. Mind you the gun must be purchased this way, you can't modify it to that length for some strange reason. CanadaAmmo.com sells several very short shotguns,including a cool little 12 inch barreled double. However, most of the shotguns they sell under the Dominion Arms name are quite heavy for their size, so I wouldn't gain much there.
The .444 is great except it's a bit long and I don't like the abuse it gets when backpacking. If I could find another one like it in less pristine condition I'd consider cutting it down, but not this one.

[Streetstar]

The .45 Trapper has already been mentioned

but mine with a Ram Line stock feels like a toy --- haven't put it on a scale, but the hollow (i presume) plastic stock set vs. the wood makes for a featherweight little carbine and at least the stock is weatherproof (although i like the wood much better and think its worth the extra weight for my purposes)

[brno602]

Hay did you not know Grizzly bears are now under the protected animal act in Alberta as of yesterday
Him or me ? I bought a 16'' Rossi For back packing fly fishing trips in 45 Colt with 300gr bullets going almost 1600fps it out penatrates a regular 12 ga slug on trees. I think the gun is about 5 lbs and holds lots of ammo 8 +1, that wieght would be unloaded.
I used to think a normal 20'' win 94 was tiny and trim, but this gun is trim.
I have seen a web site in Canada that had some Mules Leg's and they claim it is not a Restriced gun??? But just looking at the gun I don't think it would be good to fire full house 45s through and keep any control of it? I am still not sure if it is legal as the overall lenghth is 24'' It's something I should check out but it comes with a $1600.00 price tag.!
But if your really worried about Bears best lever would be a 1895 Marlin with a 18.5'' barrel stoked to the max with at least a 400gr bullets. But it still is not that light and a gun in hand is better than one straped to a backpack.
P.S any shotgun in Canada has to have a 18.5'' Barrel or longer to be legal But Rifles do not.

Actually you can buy shotguns with barrels much shorter than 18.5 in Canada and still be completely legal and non-restricted. There is currently a 870 copy with an 8.5" barrel tha's legal,although it doesn't interest me. I believe the overall length must be at least 26.5 or thereabouts though. Mind you the gun must be purchased this way, you can't modify it to that length for some strange reason. CanadaAmmo.com sells several very short shotguns,including a cool little 12 inch barreled double. However, most of the shotguns they sell under the Dominion Arms name are quite heavy for their size, so I wouldn't gain much there.
The .444 is great except it's a bit long and I don't like the abuse it gets when backpacking. If I could find another one like it in less pristine condition I'd consider cutting it down, but not this one.

Well they must cut the mag tube down on the 870 two only hold two rounds?
But anyway I would go with the rossi in .44Mag or .45 colt Light and still shoot good enough to have some real fun with. And I was pointed in the right direction by some fellow posters on this site to the Paco loads he made and tested I was a bit worried about them but started working my way up and dam they work they are above ''book'' loads but the 92 is strong no pressure signs and scary vel for such a little case as the .45 colt and such a little gun too and for me very little recoil for the performace I get. The 300gr let's you know it that you pulled the trigger, but even not such hot loads but kinda warm like 24.5gr of 296 and a 255 gr cast slug are pleasant to shoot too in such a little gun.
Canadian gun law's are scetchy when it comes to anything built as a Rifle so you might be right. I really do not care for shot guns as to me Even a win 21 is just a couple of tubes. let the hate mail fly!

[brno602]

The .45 Trapper has already been mentioned

but mine with a Ram Line stock feels like a toy --- haven't put it on a scale, but the hollow (i presume) plastic stock set vs. the wood makes for a featherweight little carbine and at least the stock is weatherproof (although i like the wood much better and think its worth the extra weight for my purposes)

That is what my hunting partner and best friend calls a Barbed wire Special! You really can't hurt the thing. I find the finish on my Rossy kinda soft I plan on giving it a nice oil finnish or spray it with Indura semi Gloss ( the same paint they use on jets) oh it's tough but oil looks better and easy to touch up when I make a boobo.The little gan has really grown on me it will never replace my 99 in .300 but it's so cute! and has some really nice grain hiding in the wood.

[willygene]

i haven't found anything yet shorter or lighter loaded than my rossi 357 puma great little gun.

[Warhawk]

Stainless Rossi 92 Trapper

And they are available in 454 Casull. The 16" stainless weighs just under 6 lbs. I've sent a few of these to the Northwest, Canada and Alaska for backpacker bear medicine.

Howdy Steve, The top one in that pic is the .44 Mag that you slicked up for me. The lower one is a .357 that is on your waiting list.