OT - Lightning Pump Action Question

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:24 am

Well, as much as I hate to do an OT topic, I have one. I just traded into a Taurus Thunderbolt in 45 LC. I needed a short range 45 type round for some of the places I hunt. They are kinda thick woods and a little confidence in shooting into brush is my need. Not guess shots mind you, just something that will get me through the weeds without deflecting.

This rifle actually seems to fit my need. What I need is some load data for bullets in the 255 range (jacketed soft points) that are deer capable out to 100 yards. Especially data that has been tested/used in this rifle. Thanks in advance.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:32 am

IIRC, the pressures that particular design can handle are in the standard .45 Colt range. I believe you're limited to ammo loaded to no more than the SAAMI specs for .45 Colt.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:16 pm

I also seem to remember reading, in a mag review/wringout of all three brands, that they're also sensitive to bullet nose profile & cartridge overall length.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:36 pm

Here are some additional sources of information: Go to CAS City Gun Reviews and do a search in that forum for "Taurus Thunderbolt", and for gosh sakes read Jeff Quinn's review in GunBlast.com

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:43 pm

Griff,

I have read Jeff's evaluation and just read the other. Thanks for the link. I shot it quite a bit today w/o any problems. The rounds were a little above normal, but not too hot. No problems and accuracy appeared to be OK. Shooting stumps, not paper. I was hoping someone had really put one of these through the paces. I also would like to find complete disassembly instructions.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:32 pm

Guys, isn't this the rifle that our own Steve Young had so many problems with that Taurus no longer even makes them? I could swear it is. I would go easy "putting it through its paces" because you might have a very broken gun, and Taurus' warrenty service doesn't seem so hot anymore.

-Tutt

cutter · Post by **cutter** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:36 pm

I can send you detailed dissasembly instructions, if you want. I really like mine, though the factory sights werer pitifull, and the wood finish , not impressive.

I have shot 200, 246, and 255 gr LRN with no functioning problems. Also, I have shot Speer 200gr " Flying Ashtrays", Hornandy 300 Gr Hp's, and 245gr semi wad cutters of uknown manufacture, with no functioning troubles.

Forget mild loads, this gun likes 'em hot. These 650 FPS little girl loads will blow back into your face. A full case of black , if your into that sort of thing, or a near redline* load will do fine.

It is a very accurate rifle, and reliable if you can find the 'rythem' it likes. Shove open, snap shut.

* Max safe load for Colt SAA, will be the max safe load for your rifle.

Taurus no longer makes this rifle, because the CAS market killed it. Seems they wanted an exact reproduction of the Colt Lightening, then complained because Taurus made an exact reproduction of the Colt Lightening. There are some of the T-Bolts out there with functioning problems, but when you pay 450$ for a 1,200$ rifle......

Taurus has the worst customer service I have ever experianced. It seems Taurus 's only requirement to be a factory authorized service center, is to have a P.O. box......

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:24 pm

I find it hard to believe that the CAS circuit caused the manufacture of this rifle to cease because it was too authentic? What are you saying? More likely, Taurus was getting so many complaints about the reliability of the rifle, it was no longer worth the headache for them to make it. If you guys have some good ones, I would keep them and cherish them. They were a neat design overall.

-Tutt

old goat · Post by **old goat** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:32 am

...I followed the T-bolt closely when it first came out. From all that I read, they had a lot of problems with it. When rifles were sent for warrenty work, Taurus kept some of them for more than six months, and would not respond to the owner's questions. The T-bolts would not "run" at the speeds CAS shooters wanted/needed with out jamming. Taurus, not CSA, is the problem.
...When not used at the speeds of the CAS matches, they may perform okay.

...old goat

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:08 am

Thanks for the information. I hope this one holds up as I kinda like the feel and action. How are the other brands holding up? I see that AWA, Beretta and US Firearms have a similar model, but I have never seen one in person.

Cutter, I sure would like the instructions if we can work something out. Do you have them in an electronic format?

cutter · Post by **cutter** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:50 pm

I will scan, then e-mail tommorrow.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:14 pm

Sooooooooooo, what other problems were there? Was the jamming when shucked at high speed the biggie?

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:21 pm

Bruce wrote:Thanks for the information. I hope this one holds up as I kinda like the feel and action. How are the other brands holding up? I see that AWA, Beretta and US Firearms have a similar model, but I have never seen one in person.

Cutter, I sure would like the instructions if we can work something out. Do you have them in an electronic format?

My wife and I have a total of 5 lightnings:

2 AWA International
2 USFA
1 Cimarron/Pedersoli

We had initial issues with the AWAs. The first, very early model, had issues out of the box, the other had major issues from a previous "smith". Russel at AWA was a big help in getting them up and running. I custom ordered a USFA, and it ran out of the box, but was stiff (springs too heavy). I ordered a second that had action work done before coming to me. The initial round of action work on both USFAs caused some spectacular reliability issues that I have since fixed. The custom model is my main match rifle for SASS. We recently got the Pedersoli for the wife. That has been running very well out of the box - better than the USFAs did. No issues, but the mag spring was a monster.

These rifles need good setup to run well, then they will run really well. I think Taurus was way over optimistic on their price point. They need the hand setup to work reliably, and Taurus pricing does not permit that. I suspect they paid for their error in the warranty service. The Taurus' I inspected were rough, and had significant over travel in the lifter, which can contribute to ejecting live rounds and stove pipes. AWA revised that part to fix that problem, so Taurus should have been able to figure it out.

I cannot stress enough the value of .44-40 for these rifles. The wife's AWA in .45 colt runs well, but very dirty. Same with .38. .44-40 is a charm in these rifles.

The USFA and AWA rifles follow the basic original design. Taurus added some additional safety features, but is otherwise the original design. There are some pundits on SASS Wire that claim the original design was flawed. Odd, Colt made 90,000 over twenty years. They did have issues with the initial release, which some of the modern makers have repeated.

The Pedersoli has some modifications, and it appears the Uberti/Beretta model does as well. I am undecided on the merits of the Pedersoli mods for reliability (more small parts), but they do offer an easy way to unload.

You should not have to run these guns hard for reliability. Properly setup the are very easy to run, but you can not short stroke them. They should not jam on short strokes either.

Oh, lever guns content: Personally I prefer the Lightnings for SASS use, but still keep lever guns for backup and the big calibers (.45-70 and .405).

Chris

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:55 am

Cutter, thanks for the assistance. This rifle needed a thorough cleaning very bad. It was not new when I got it. Getting the bolt out is a major pain. The part (brace?) that attaches to the bottom of the bolt is not easy to remove and it must be removed to get the bolt out.

Chris, thanks for the information. Is the USFA worth the cost difference between it and the other brands? Other than the stiff springs, how would you rate the quality and material used in construction of the different brands? I may consider another one in the future with a 20" barrel vs. the 26" this one has.

I have already noted that this one gets very dirty and quickly.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:50 am

Chris wrote:
My wife and I have a total of 5 lightnings:

2 AWA International
2 USFA
1 Cimarron/Pedersoli

Chris

Looking to adopt? I'm available!

Welcome to the fire!!!

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:40 am

Bruce wrote:Cutter, thanks for the assistance. This rifle needed a thorough cleaning very bad. It was not new when I got it. Getting the bolt out is a major pain. The part (brace?) that attaches to the bottom of the bolt is not easy to remove and it must be removed to get the bolt out.

Chris, thanks for the information. Is the USFA worth the cost difference between it and the other brands? Other than the stiff springs, how would you rate the quality and material used in construction of the different brands? I may consider another one in the future with a 20" barrel vs. the 26" this one has.

I have already noted that this one gets very dirty and quickly.

The USFAs are worth the money! Really the only thing that needs to be done is to cut down the mainspring. With that mine is very smooth. Do NOT mess with the other springs, as you can have issues. Been there, done that.

To rank: USFA, Pedersoli, AWA, with the Pedersoli and USFA neck and neck. Wood and metal are both excellent.

There is noticeable difference in the barrel weights used on the various makers' models. I personally prefer the 26". My Wife's Pedersoli is a 24", but heavier. The lightest are the AWAs. The 20" .38 AWA is tiny. Too small, even for the wife. Keep in mind that the receiver on these is much smaller than a '66, so a 26" Lightning is about the same OAL as a 20" '66.

Chris

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:42 am

Ysabel Kid wrote:
Chris wrote:
My wife and I have a total of 5 lightnings:

2 AWA International
2 USFA
1 Cimarron/Pedersoli

Chris
Looking to adopt? I'm available!

Welcome to the fire!!!

LOL!

Had to get the extras after the wife claimed mine!

Good to be back.

Chris

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 pm

Chris,
Welcome to the Forum. That was a good discussion on the various Lightning clones. Very imformative. I've watched the progress of these with some interest, but... always a little afraid to take the plunge and "be 1st on the block", so to speak. Maybe, one that gets put back on the list of "Needed Guns"!

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:11 pm

I have never owned a "new" Lightning, but did have a lot of fun with my large frame original in .40-60M, also known as .40-65 WCF. As long as you kept the loads down to a reasonable level, the old girl would shoot. Too bad that it is now gone to a new home and is being restored, something that I would never do. When I got the gun the wood had been removed, all metal bead blasted, and wood replaced. It looked weird, but worked just fine.

If I ever do buy a modern Lightning clone, it will be a USFA in .44 WCF.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:47 am

I think I will have to get my hands on a USFA in the future to see if it calls to me. Thanks again.