ACTION locked open on my 1892 (?)

[Dino]

Well, I cleaned my rifle tonight ...

I didn't disassemble anything.
I used a cleaning rod from the muzzle end and placed a cloth inside the chamber to catch any excess solvent and to help protect it from any damage that may occur from the cleaning rod being pushed through the muzzle end.
It seemed to make sense at the time.

Then when I went to close the chamber, I noticed the action was completely locked up.

I'm sure it has to be something really simple but, well ... the gun is new and it's my first lever action rifle so I'm not really all that familiar with it.

I'm posting some pics in hopes that maybe you guys see something obvious that may be causing it.

[Dino]

I just noticed that there is no spring tension on the firing pin, but I can't imagine this having anything to do with the breech locking up. It doesn't feel like something fell into the breech and is getting in the way. It's LOCKED.

Could it maybe have something to do with the vertical locking lugs?
I'm at a loss guys.
Help a brutha out.

[Sixgun]

Dino,
Relax, There's a simple answer but YOU must find it.Fiddle around with it, all the time poking around with a non marking tool, pressing on this 'n that.

One thing that will bind it up for sure is the finger lever stop pin. This is the pin that rides through the forward section of the bolt and it also connects the top of the lever to the bolt. It is friction tight and if it rides just a few thou. out of the bolt, it will lock it in the open position.

It will "ride out" on the left side of the bolt (As the rifle is facing away from you--as if you are shooting it). The screw that keeps it in place is on the left upper front of the receiver---directly across from the 1/8" hole on the right side.

(If its this pin) You have to get a razor thin tool that is beveled on the edge and try to weasel it inbetween the bolt and the receiver rail. You can also try rapping the left side of the receiver with a rubber hammer in the hopes of driving it in, all the time holding the receiver with the left side up.

If you do manage to close the gun, Keep it closed and unscrew that screw I told you about and insert a punch where the screw was and tap in the pin.-------------------Sixgun

[AJMD429]

First off, don't panic and force stuff - I learned that the hard way.

I'm more familiar with Marlins and can take apart them from about any condition, but someone will chime in who's a Model 92 expert pretty soon hopefully.

Leverguns are generally smooth and reliable and amazing, so don't think ill of them with this first experience.

I know how to disassemble a Model 92 if the bolt is closed, but in open-bolt configuration I'm afraid I might start you out wrong.

[AJMD429]

Will the hammer pivot back/down any more at all? If it is wedged up against the bolt, you may have to remove the hammer screw, preferably first removing the buttstock and seeing if you can manage to reduce the spring tension a bit so the screw is easier to remove, and doesn't require punching it out once the threads have disengaged.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Dreaded Winchester jam??

What those guys said +1.

[Griff]

As Sixgun said it's probably the fingerlever/bolt pin. HOWEVER, if your rifle is an Armi Sport and NOT a Rossi, it will be a screw that holds the lever to the bolt. DO NOT hammer on this.

I believe the Armi Sport version also has a screw as described on the left side of the frame. You will need to remove this screw to get to the one that holds the lever to the bolt.

[texasguy]

It looks like the ladle or loading gate is open and stopping the action from going forward.

[madman4570]

I like my Ithaca pumps!
Really, I love those 1892 guns.
Just take your time and like DocAJ said dont panic/force stuff.
Bet, Its just some little minor thing.

[COSteve]

As Sixgun said it's probably the fingerlever/bolt pin. HOWEVER, if your rifle is an Armi Sport and NOT a Rossi, it will be a screw that holds the lever to the bolt. DO NOT hammer on this.

I believe the Armi Sport version also has a screw as described on the left side of the frame. You will need to remove this screw to get to the one that holds the lever to the bolt.

Yep, its a Cimarron Chiappa 1892 rather than a Rossi M92.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

As Sixgun said it's probably the fingerlever/bolt pin. HOWEVER, if your rifle is an Armi Sport and NOT a Rossi, it will be a screw that holds the lever to the bolt. DO NOT hammer on this.

I believe the Armi Sport version also has a screw as described on the left side of the frame. You will need to remove this screw to get to the one that holds the lever to the bolt.

This happens with the originals and the Rossi's on occasion. The fix is to remeove the locking bolts so you can reach down in there with a thin screwdrive and push the pin back into the bolt.

But, as Griff pointed out, the Armi Sport Chiappa has a bolt to lever pin that is screwed in then covered with a plug screw. If that pin has unscrewed you got a serious problem. The only fix that comes to mind is to drill a hole in the frame over the pin so you can get to it to turn it back in.

[Tycer]

As Sixgun said it's probably the fingerlever/bolt pin. HOWEVER, if your rifle is an Armi Sport and NOT a Rossi, it will be a screw that holds the lever to the bolt. DO NOT hammer on this.

I believe the Armi Sport version also has a screw as described on the left side of the frame. You will need to remove this screw to get to the one that holds the lever to the bolt.

This happens with the originals and the Rossi's on occasion. The fix is to remeove the locking bolts so you can reach down in there with a thin screwdrive and push the pin back into the bolt.

But, as Griff pointed out, the Armi Sport Chiappa has a bolt to lever pin that is screwed in then covered with a plug screw. If that pin has unscrewed you got a serious problem. The only fix that comes to mind is to drill a hole in the frame over the pin so you can get to it to turn it back in.

If that happened on one of mine (the screw backing out) I'd freeze the gun and see if things shrunk enough to move it.

[Lefty Dude]

As Sixgun said it's probably the fingerlever/bolt pin. HOWEVER, if your rifle is an Armi Sport and NOT a Rossi, it will be a screw that holds the lever to the bolt. DO NOT hammer on this.

I believe the Armi Sport version also has a screw as described on the left side of the frame. You will need to remove this screw to get to the one that holds the lever to the bolt.

This happens with the originals and the Rossi's on occasion. The fix is to remeove the locking bolts so you can reach down in there with a thin screwdrive and push the pin back into the bolt.

But, as Griff pointed out, the Armi Sport Chiappa has a bolt to lever pin that is screwed in then covered with a plug screw. If that pin has unscrewed you got a serious problem. The only fix that comes to mind is to drill a hole in the frame over the pin so you can get to it to turn it back in.

Ouch !

[Sixgun]

Hey! If it is a screw, how about getting an extremely strong magnet, positioning it over the frame where the screw is and turning that baby clockwise (clockwise, right J Miller?) -----------------------Sixgun

[w30wcf]

Yep. Had that happen to me once. Turned out that the finger lever bolt pin had worked out just far enough to lock things up (Just as Sixgun indicated).

As Nate Kiowa Jones indicated "The fix is to remove the locking bolts so you can reach down in there with a thin screwdrive and push the pin back into the bolt."

w30wcf

[J Miller]

Sixgun,
I seriously doubt a magnet would work in this case.

I'm very familiar with the Winchester 94s, but this 92 design has me stumped.
In my opinion drilling the receiver to get to the screw would for all intents and purposes destroy the gun for me.
If this gun has the lever to bolt pin being a screw I would disassemble it as far as I could, pump it full of oil, and then push, tap, coerce, or otherwise persuade that bolt forward. Then take the thing completely apart and FIX it right. Putting a screw in place of a pin is pure STUPIDITY ... in my opinion.
From what Steve Young has said there's gonna be damage no matter what so I'd try to confine it to the inside where it don't show too much.
However I am not suggesting this be done, I'm only saying what "I" would be tempted to do.

Joe

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

The best option is to just send it back to;

Chiappa Firearms
PO box 26178
Dayton Ohio45426

937-835-5000

That gun also needs the updated cartridge guides as well.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

It looks like the ladle or loading gate is open and stopping the action from going forward.

BTW, the loading gate won't open if the action is open, carrier up. In the up position the carrier is in front (or just behind it)of the loading gate/dust cover/ladel.

[Hawkeye2]

I have a Navy Arms/Rossi .45 and a Rossi .454, are there any modifications that can be done to insure this never happens?

[Griff]

Hawkeye, the Rossi uses a pin, just the originals did. The "fix" is as Sixgun first described.

Nate, my memory ain't what it could be; not having a '92 apart for several years, after you remove the locking lugs, could you unscrew the right guide and slip it forward enough to get the bolt back forward?

[COSteve]

Is this yet another example of Chiappa's weak execution of the '92 design?

[Hawkeye2]

Sixgun did a great job of telling how to get it unlocked and back to its original configuration. I might not have been clear but my question is: Once it is back to its stock configuration what can be done to assure it never happens again? Cross pin the pin? Ream/drive in a roll pin? Drill & tap for a set screw to hold the pin in? Other mod? One is my cowboy gun and the other will most likely be my hunting rifle for the rest of my life and I want 100% reliability in both cases, sorta like the old Winc 94 that I am replacing with the Rossi.

[Tycer]

Sixgun did a great job of telling how to get it unlocked and back to its original configuration. I might not have been clear but my question is: Once it is back to its stock configuration what can be done to assure it never happens again? Cross pin the pin? Ream/drive in a roll pin? Drill & tap for a set screw to hold the pin in? Other mod? One is my cowboy gun and the other will most likely be my hunting rifle for the rest of my life and I want 100% reliability in both cases, sorta like the old Winc 94 that I am replacing with the Rossi.

Blue Loctite.

[Griff]

Sixgun did a great job of telling how to get it unlocked and back to its original configuration. I might not have been clear but my question is: Once it is back to its stock configuration what can be done to assure it never happens again? Cross pin the pin? Ream/drive in a roll pin? Drill & tap for a set screw to hold the pin in? Other mod? One is my cowboy gun and the other will most likely be my hunting rifle for the rest of my life and I want 100% reliability in both cases, sorta like the old Winc 94 that I am replacing with the Rossi.

Blue Loctite.

The Rossi uses a solid pin. It is driven in from the left side of the receiver, and is at the top of the lever and the bottom of the bolt. It is not accessible for cross-pinning or a set screw. Loctite may or may not help hold the pin in place. The best answer I can provide, (maybe Nate has a trick in his DVD?), is to make sure your "Finger Lever Pin Stop Screw" (item 23 below) is of sufficient length to keep the pin from moving back to the left. The rails generally hold it in place during it's travel back and forward as the lever is worked... but as it comes to rest in the closed position, if the stop screw is too short, it will move left and may become locked.

receiver-1.JPG

Hope that answers the question.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Hawkeye, the Rossi uses a pin, just the originals did. The "fix" is as Sixgun first described.

Nate, my memory ain't what it could be; not having a '92 apart for several years, after you remove the locking lugs, could you unscrew the right guide and slip it forward enough to get the bolt back forward?

Not really. The pin is hung up in the left lug way(locking bolt way) and has nothing to do with the guides.

Sixgun did a great job of telling how to get it unlocked and back to its original configuration. I might not have been clear but my question is: Once it is back to its stock configuration what can be done to assure it never happens again? Cross pin the pin? Ream/drive in a roll pin? Drill & tap for a set screw to hold the pin in? Other mod? One is my cowboy gun and the other will most likely be my hunting rifle for the rest of my life and I want 100% reliability in both cases, sorta like the old Winc 94 that I am replacing with the Rossi.

For your Rossi the pin is knurled on the left side end so you can use a fresh pin. But, if the hole in the bolt is worn the next trick is use a center punch, remove the bolt and and punch it on the bottom over the pin hole. This will grow some metal in the hole to help tighten the pin. Do it to both sides. Mainly don't fret over it. It doesn't happen very often.

Sixgun,
I seriously doubt a magnet would work in this case.

I'm very familiar with the Winchester 94s, but this 92 design has me stumped.
In my opinion drilling the receiver to get to the screw would for all intents and purposes destroy the gun for me.
If this gun has the lever to bolt pin being a screw I would disassemble it as far as I could, pump it full of oil, and then push, tap, coerce, or otherwise persuade that bolt forward. Then take the thing completely apart and FIX it right. Putting a screw in place of a pin is pure STUPIDITY ... in my opinion.
From what Steve Young has said there's gonna be damage no matter what so I'd try to confine it to the inside where it don't show too much.
However I am not suggesting this be done, I'm only saying what "I" would be tempted to do.

Joe

If you do that you are most likely to destroy the gun for sure. What I would do is lay it out for two holes to fit a Williams FP receiver sight then drill the holes using a #31 drill then tap them 6-48 . Now you can plug them or mount a Williams later if you like. The williams will end up a little higher than it need to be but a taller front sight can be added to compensate if needed.

[J Miller]

Steve,

Do you have one of these Chiappa's handy you could take some photo's of?

OK, now I do have a brutal streak I do my best to control, and now that I understand where the offending screw is at and why the removal of the locking bolts might help here is another question for original poster.
Can you take one more picture looking down into that left side locking bolt mortise so we can see if the screw is actually protruding?

If so it might be possible to use a dental pic or something small and rotate it the screw back in enough to close the bolt.

Just another thought. No doubt a lot better than my last one.


Joe