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Took out the new double shotgun that I got from rjohns Wounded Warrior Auction. I don't shoot a lot of clays anymore but have always been a fair shot with a scattergun. In fact, I went an entire season of pheasant hunting in Idaho one year and never missed a rooster.
I was excited to try out this trim little 20 ga, but wondered how I would do with it. I had owned double 16 ga. a while back and couldn't hit with it to save my life, so I was hoping this new one would somehow be different. It wasn't.
I shot a full box of shells and broke 5 clays.
Frustrated, I pulled out my trusty 12 ga autoloader that my buddy had once nicknamed "the meatgrinder", and proceded to bust 10 or 12 in a row.
Why can't I shoot a double??? I guess it's got something to do with me incorrectly sighting down one barrel or the other instead of the middle, but I couldn't figure it out today.
I use to work at a skeet range while in college. Of the people I taught to shoot, the most common problem was that they were lowering their head to the stock rather that bringing the stock to their cheek. Try it I bet it will help.
What Old Savage & RR7 said, as that's the most likely problem.
If your sight picture is the same with both guns, have someone check out your swing with both. It depends on how you shoot, steady swing or through the target, the style determines the problem. I'm guessing it's the latter, where you are catching the target and it's a timing issue. You're probably snapping the trigger a bit early with the double as they generally slow your swing to target. You'll wind up shooting behind the bird. You will adapt with some more time spent with it.
"People who object to weapons aren't abolishing violence, they're begging for rule by brute force, when the biggest, strongest animals among men were always automatically 'right.' Guns ended that, and social democracy is a hollow farce without an armed populace to make it work."
Buffboy wrote:What Old Savage & RR7 said, as that's the most likely problem.
If your sight picture is the same with both guns, have someone check out your swing with both. It depends on how you shoot, steady swing or through the target, the style determines the problem. I'm guessing it's the latter, where you are catching the target and it's a timing issue. You're probably snapping the trigger a bit early with the double as they generally slow your swing to target. You'll wind up shooting behind the bird. You will adapt with some more time spent with it.
+1
Also the 20 has a smaller shot column then the 12 so it is a bit less forgiving. I had the same problem when I used to do sporting clays with my dad. I was hell on wheels with a 12 tried my hand with a 20 and learned a lesson in humility. Don't get frustrated just practice more and you will be busting them in no time. If you really want to get good busting clays use a 410 guaranty that when you switch back to the 20 or the 12 you will be a killing machine.
Jeremy
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy Semper Fidelis
pretty much what the other have offered. I shoot behind with a SxS and tend to sight from the edge of the barrel....gets me in trouble all the time. i dont seem to have the same troubles with a O/U.
if i remember to shoot off the bead.. things work a lot better.
always press the "red" button--- it's worth the effort and the results can be fun
I have not patterned it yet, but will do so next time I have it out. What ever the problem is, it's just with side by sides. I shoot my auto, pump and O/U very well. When I shot on a sporting clays league I regularly shot in the high 80's, even when using my 20 ga. 1100. These SxS guns give me fits though.
lay them all out on a table and measure the length of pull but more importantly, the drop at the heel and the comb, bet you'll find the SxS has a deeper drop.
do you shoot with both eyes open or just your dominant eye?
gun fit is also very important....
ga of the gun is not....
center of the shot column from a 410 or a 12....should be the same
if the gun fits you...you may have to shim the butt stock or
romove or add to the comb...
I just found some helpful tips
Q. First. What’s the most crucial aspect of wing shooting?
A. Consistency. To be successful, you have to be consistent. That means consistently bringing the shotgun to your shoulder and cheek correctly, so that it naturally points where you are looking.
Q. How does a shooter obtain that consistency?
A. Part of it is proper stance; pointing the foot that’s opposite of your shooting shoulder toward your target, and shouldering your gun smoothly with your head forward. Even with that, though, if the shotgun does not fit you well, you will not bring it to your shoulder properly with any consistency at all. A custom-fit shotgun is made to your exact build. The length of your arms, the size of your chest, even the distance from the underside of your cheekbone to the center of your eye comes into play. A custom-fit shotgun accommodates you, your specific build, rather than a body type trying to accommodate a shotgun that just does not fit you well. You simply won’t mount an ill-fitted gun with consistency. And without consistency you’re missing more clays, or worse, birds. A stock that is too short has the tendency to shoot low. A stock that is too long has a tendency to shoot too high. A stock that is too long it is not just uncomfortable; it will tend to be mounted on the bicep rather than in the pocket of the shoulder. This causes the shot to be absorbed by the arm rather than the more stable shoulder, and causes bruising and discomfort. The right length of pull will help you square your shoulders. If the shoulders are squared off to the target, the tendency is to place the gun in the pocket of the shoulder. If the shoulders are not squared off to the target, but are angled by sliding the right foot too far back, and the gun is mounted across the chest, the tendency is to place the gun on a bicep.
Q. So, what are the basic terms for measurements and what do they mean?
A. First, there’s Length of Pull. This is the distance from the center of the trigger
(or the front trigger on double trigger guns) to the center of the stock’s butt. Length of pull determines where a shooter will place his cheek to the stock, and is based on the length of a shooter’s arms, general build, and how much a shooter thrusts his or her head forward when mounting the shotgun. It is ideal to have the cheek meet the stock just forward of the midpoint between the heel and comb. A stock that’s too short will tend to be snapped up to the shoulder too quickly and before the barrels are aligned with the eyes.
Q. What are some other measurements that come into play?
A. Drop at Comb and Drop at Heel are key measurements. Think of an imaginary line extending along the top rib, over the stock. The drop at comb is the distance from that line to the comb. The drop at heel is the distance from that line to the heel. Drop at comb determines how high or low a gun shoots. This is where the measurement of the center of your shooting eye comes into play. The idea is to align the pupil to the center of the rib. If you see too much rib, chances are the comb is too high, and you will over shoot the target. If the drop at the comb is too low, chances are that you will try to hold your head up to see the target, resulting in inconsistency. Variations as slight as an eighth of an inch can make a big difference in where the gun will shoot. If I increase the drop at comb, your eye will be lower relative to the barrels, and you will shoot lower. This will correct the problem of a shooter who naturally shoots high. If I decrease the drop at comb, your eye is higher, and you will shoot higher.
Q. What’s drop at heel?
A. Drop at Heel is the measurement of the "drop" from the top of the barrel (or rib) and the top of the stock at the heel. This also effects how high or low a gun will shoot. This measurement, combined with the "Drop at Comb" is actually what will line your eye up relative to the top of the barrels. Everything is about lining your eye correctly to the top of the barrel so the gun shoots where you point. If you see too much rib you’re going to shoot high. Then, here’s the Pitch.
Q.Which is?
A. Pitch is the angle of the butt of the stock, or, more accurately, that of the recoil pad relative to your shoulder. If you’re a slim person, the pitch, or angle of you shoulder is relatively flat, much smaller an angle than that of a large barrel-chested person. If you hold your hand flat and bring it against your shoulder, you'll notice the heel of your palm hits your chest first. The larger the chest you have, the greater the angle of the butt or recoil pad needs to be so that it rests flush to the shoulder. This fit also contributes to whether a gun will shoot low or high. So, we match the angle of the butt to the angle of your chest and shoulder.
Q. What about aligning your eye left to right to the barrels?
A. That’s where the Cast comes into play. Cast is the distance the stock is bent (or built) to the left or right in relation to the barrels. How much cast a stock should have is dictated by how full or slim the shooter’s face is, and the width of the shoulders. Often, a right-handed shooter will discover his eye is lined up slightly to the left of the line of the barrels, and not directly behind it. The fuller your face, the more to the left your eye will tend to be relative to the barrels. The opposite is true for left-handed shooters. If you have a full face, it is often even more to the left. So, casting is fitting a stock to fit you’re facial structure and shoulder width. With a new shotgun, after we’ve determined the measurements, we can build the stock accordingly.
Ted, throw the gun up with your eyes shut on an imaginary bird a stationary bird at that. Hold the position and open your eyes. Tell me how much of the barrels you can see and if your eye is down the center of the rib.
Above are all good suggestions but will most likely just mess you up royally . The best thing to do is to go to the local trap range and have a QUALIFIED shooter watch you. He can , as I can, see the shot pattern fly out to the target and will be able to tell if you are peeking,stopping your swing ,flinching,etc.etc. Many doubles just don`t fit today`s shooter. An added cheek pad helps me with many field guns. I am used to a trap gun that centers its pattern well above the front bead.
I have a similar issue with my CZ 20 ga Bobwhite SXS -- not as nice as the one you got -- but a fun shooter...
...now I just need to make it a fun HITTER!!!
Taking "snap shots" at clay birds on a 25 yard berm showed me I'm shooting too low with it on most shots -- yup, "stock fit" is the culprit alright. I called one of the leading custom shotgun shops in New England (Coles Gunsmithing) which is just down the road a piece here on the coast, and they told me they can bend the stock left or right -- but not up or down...
So...
I'm planning to test several pads from 1/4" to 3/8" high, held on the comb with elastics, to see if that extra height helps -- as my eye is the "rear sight", then raising my eye should help lower the butt/raise the barrels and hopefully put me right on. (That's the plan anyway!)
If that works out OK as a temporary solution, then I plan to add a 1/4" or 3/8" Slimside Scope Eze pad from Brownell's -- just like the 3/8" one you see here on my T/C Omega .50 BP rifle:
Lots of good ideas above, but if stock/comb height is the issue, those Scope Eze pads are an inexpensive, good looking and permanent solution to the problem of stock fit -- and "missing".
Tight groups!
Old No7
ps: I carried my 20 ga SXS a couple of times for fox this winter -- no luck -- but will try to bag a 'yote AND a turkey with it later this spring -- once I get it hitting well, that is.
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dkmlever wrote:lay them all out on a table and measure the length of pull but more importantly, the drop at the heel and the comb, bet you'll find the SxS has a deeper drop.
You are correct. The new SxS has 3/4" more drop at the heel than my 12 ga auto that I shoot well. Now, what to do about it?
Trade it in for an O/U. Obviously the barrels are on sideways. I have the same problem. Average 24.5 on skeet with O/U but with SxS its a whole different game. Have tried to figure it out a bunch of times. Save yourself the aggravation and get an O/U.
As I stated, I already have an O/U that I shoot very well. I wasn't asking what's your favorite shotgun. I want to know WHY I can't hit the side of a barn from the inside with a SxS.
With that extra drop of 3/4 inch, you head is looking over the barrels instead of right down them so the barrels ar pointing lower than you are looking. This used to be the way all the old Parkers etc were built with drops of 3 to 3 1/2 inches at the heel now days most people like a drop of 2 1/2. Look at how the older pictures show folks holding/shooting thier doubles they held their hed OFF the stock to look down the barrel. So try shooting it that way, don;t snuggle tight to the stock.
Many doubles just don`t fit today`s shooter. An added cheek pad helps me with many field guns. I am used to a trap gun that centers its pattern well above the front bead.
