BLR trigger failure

[eagles]

I was just reading on an Alaskan Hunting forum the woes of many who say they BLR is junk because the gun is unreliable as to when it will fire and when you will get a "click" instead. One guy said he would rather hunt bears with an Axe ,another chimed in his falies once after about each twelve pulls , another guy with a 358 said his did the same thing an no amount of gunsmith work could fix it. As I was considering a take down 450 marlin BLR , no more !!!! This seemed odd that they cant fix this issue , and for sure I would never consider a gun that had this reputaion for going click in any hunting situation this often . Have you guys heard of this ? This was not just one guys experiance but at least three seperate indivuals.

[Doc Hudson]

I've had a .358 Win BLR since 1994. i won't claim a tremendous number of rounds through it but it puns up into the thousands.

99% of those rounds have been handloads sparked with CCI primers, which have a reputation for being harder and hotter than other primers (deserved or not). Never have I had a single failure to fire.

My BLR has been 100% and superbly accurate. using a Hornady 200 gr. Spire Point with 41.6 grains of IMR 4198 it will produce one hole groups at 100 meters with monotonous regularity, and the groups at 200 meters are not much bigger. It is beyond doubt the most accurate rifle I've ever owned and one of the most accurate I've ever had the pleasure to shoot.

I will further state that among the many people I've known who own BLR's I've never heard anyone speak of such a problem.

I do not know the people whom you are quoting so I won't cast aspersions on their veracity. I will say that it is my opinion that they've done something wrong.

As for your decision not to purchase a BLR in .450 Marlin, I congratulate you. IMO the .450 Marin is a totally unnecessary cartridge. It will not do anything that a .45-70 can not be loaded to do. If you want a high performance .45-70, buy a Marlin M-1895 or a Winchester/Browning M-1886 in .45-70 and use modern loads from Garrett Cartridge Company, Buffalo Bore, or Cor-Bon.

[BenT]

I deer hunted excusively with my BLR through the 90's without a single misfire or any other probblems. In foul weather , freezing rain & snow, and below zero weather. I have owned three different BLR's in different calibers , no complaints about any of them. My Brother in law owns 14 of them in different calibers from 222 to magnums and they all work fine.

[Lastmohecken]

Wow! That's a new one for me, I have never heard of that problem with a BLR. I Own 3, and I have shot then, a lot, for around 20yrs on my first one. I wonder if somebody didn't attempt a trigger job, and blotched it somehow.

[BigSky56]

I will venture a guess to the problem those boys had the action was froze up cause they used the wrong lube for cold weather, I have had the same problem and seen it in bolt guns mainly model 70 & 700's when it gets below zero its hard on guns with the wrong lube. Before fall hunting season I degrease the whole gun and use a dry teflon lube. danny

[eagles]

Just went on GHREYBEARD outdoors forum , guy says his BLR 358 failed to fire twice , this other site was An Aklaskan outdoor hunting site that came up as I was searching for info on the BLR and was joined in by a few including some guy in Europe who said he just bought the take down model and took it back for the same reason . No one is saying they are not accurate but are claiming a very unfixable problem . One guy saud its a great rifle as long as your not counting on it going off all the time . This has nothing to do with the ammo as another guy said he had extensive gunsmith time into it trying to fix it but it was still a sporadic thing that popped up when it wanted to . I made a post that did not seem to make it . Everyone chooses calibers based on what they like and that is why everyone does not shoot a 45-70 or what ever . It is RUDE to insult a person if you have NO knowledge of why the choice was made anyway and I dont want to get into a debate about caliber, although I have plenty of good reasons, this was about DESIGN and who else has had the problem . I have as of now a 375 W , 405 , 50 AK and 50-110 all of them fire every time so far , all are Winchesters .

[eagles]

That idea of the cold has merit . Still you wonder why the gunsmith did not come up with that and why a guy in France had the same problem

[BigSky56]

Maybe the problem is the takedown model Ive never heard of anyone having any problems with the older steel frame 81's. danny

[RKrodle]

eagels, I have had one misfire out of several hundred rounds of handloads fired, I chalked it up to not having a primer seated properly. I haven't heard of this being a regular problem with the BLR.

[blackhawk44]

My oldest BLR was bought used 35 years ago. This .308 has never failed to feed or fire. It is fed carefully sized handloads and has probably seen less than 20 rounds of factory loads in its life. I can say the same for my .223 and .257.

[arjunky]

The only thing bad I've heard or seen of one was a .308 with a very tight chamber. Factory loads were OK, but reloads needed to be sized with small base dies and as far into the die as possible. If not sized enough the action wouldn't close completely and fire.

Byron

[Triggernosis]

There's also a rumor on a couple of forums that some older BLR's had plastic gears in them and would strip. The newer ones definitely have metal gears as I called the Browning factory and confirmed.
The same crowd that routinely bashes the BLR also bashes the A-Bolt, and that group always hunts in Alaska it seems.....

Use Remington Dri-Lube in sub-zero temperatures and don't worry about it!

[Modoc ED]

That idea of the cold has merit . Still you wonder why the gunsmith did not come up with that and why a guy in France had the same problem

It gets cold in France too. Real cold.

[eagles]

Not like Alaska !!! But it gets cold in all kinds of places in the USA as well. Glad to hear no one here seems to have this problem. I know a lot of lever gun shooters hate the rebounding hammer and later safty devices as it could acidently go on and so the gun wont go off when you want. This was the same to me , NOT a good thing if you are lining up either on a trophy or a dangerous animal .

[Bruce]

I can not comment of the posts of others about a BLR failure to fire w/o a whole lot more information. I am familiar enough with the BLR mechanics to believe that it has nothing to do with the design or parts. Just my opinion. Even though it does have different internals as far as the lever system, the external hammer,trigger, sear, firing pin/bolt operation is not really that much different from other known and reliable systems.

W/O enough information to make even a wild guess, I will go out on a limb. The cold/lube suggestion is probably the best senario, followed by someone has been inside the action trying to tweak it. The takedown is the same rifle, except it is a takedown.

I have heard rumors of very early production BLR's that had some freezing up problems in severe cold weather which was caused by different internal metals expanding/or not a different rates. There was a recall of long action BLR's around 1991, but I do not know what the issue was.

[76/444]

This is the first I have ever read of this, also.

With that being said, it lends me to believe this may be isolated to maintenance rather than design. Someone is doing something wrong, for their specific shooting parameters, imho.

[Triggernosis]

I agree it's probably an isolated problem. And you know how an armchair Browning-hater can turn one malfunction into mass hysteria over a rifle and deem it unfit for anything other than a club.....

[Hobie]

Never heard of this from any owner of ANY Browning product.

[Leverdude]

The internet has the wonderful ability to make extremely rare problems with a gun look like an industry wide problem. The funny part is if twenty guys chime in and say they never had any problems it doesn't outweigh 3 or 4 second hand accounts. I'v never had a problem with mine & never heard any real complaints, other than ugliness, from anybody else.

[Hobie]

In extreme cold weather an insistence on improper lube by the owner could cause the problem... I gather from the discussion venue that the owner was using the gun IN AK.

[eagles]

all this said, Its cold most places in hunting season and in Ak , Siberia or anywhere I never read on any site a variety of a bunch of people all who claim they had the exact same problem of failure to fire in a variety of calibers and situations , all with the same make and model of any other lever action gun . Not firing when you need it is serious ansd could get you killed or badly injured at worst and ruin a good hunt at best . I dont believe that is a pure chance . If the gun needs that much care in the cold its not for me when I can have guns not so tempermental . I like Browning ,having two model 71's by them in 50 AK and 50-110. with no such problems. So I am not a "Browinging hater " and did not realize that nitch even existed . That said for now I'll pass on the BLR. until I learn more about this situation.

[Borregos]

An interesting thread to be sure, now you can hear of the problem first hand!!

The very first levergun I ever bought was a BLR in .308 back in 1981, I sighted it in ok and took it on my first deer hunt. It was a very cold morning on my deer stand and I had been there 20 minutes and a large buck appeared on the trail about 50 yards from where I was. Took careful aim and squeezed the trigger…..click!! The buck pricked his ears up and trotted into a thick stand of pine just off the trail. I cursed and ejected the shell, just a very light primer strike. Lucky for me that buck was curious and it reappeard from the stand of pine about twenty minutes later and only about twenty-five yards away (I had heard it poking around in there so I stayed where I was). I took careful aim again and squeezed the trigger…..BANG, I had harvested my first deer. When I got home I went to a local range run by a gunsmith and repeated the problem, again the day was very cold. The gunsmith reckoned that there was some lube in the bolt that was affected by the cold so we stripped the whole assembly down, cleaned it all up and reassembled. I never had the problem again but I never took that BLR hunting again. I still have the gun and shoot it regularly at the range with no problem, it shoots very well.
So Hobie may well be right about the lube.

[76/444]

Eagles,... You may wish to consider the FACT that most gunners,................ aren't!

They have no clue what they have, how to maintain it, or troubleshoot problems.

Most are what I call gunsheep,... following the biggest mouth on the net or the most published writer,... without a clue of what is right or wrong until the advice they follow goes bad.

It would NOT SURPRISE me at all, to find out that each owner with a BLR incident, followed the Ak. popularly advised lube that turned to liquid steel when the tempts fall below a certain degree.


jmo

[Doc Hudson]

Everyone chooses calibers based on what they like and that is why everyone does not shoot a 45-70 or what ever . It is RUDE to insult a person if you have NO knowledge of why the choice was made anyway and I dont want to get into a debate about caliber, although I have plenty of good reasons, this was about DESIGN and who else has had the problem . I have as of now a 375 W , 405 , 50 AK and 50-110 all of them fire every time so far , all are Winchesters .

What rudeness? I get the feeling you are pointing fingers in my direction. Please explain in what way I was rude.

i said that I would cast no aspersions on the veracity of the people you were quoting. That meant I'd not call them liars. I also stated the opinion that those guys were doing something wrong, an opinion echoed in many other posts on this thread.

If you are getting you knickers in a twist because I said the .450 Marlin is an unnecessry caliber you sure are sensitive. Truth is the .450 Marlin won't do a blessed thing that a proper .45-70 handload or factory loads from Garrett, Cartridge Co, Buffalo Bore, or Cor-bon won't do. In tact it won't do anything you .50 Alaskan or .50-110 won't do just as well or better..

I will go even further. i consider the new .327 Magnum, and the .32 H&RM to be unnecessary calibers. They do nothing that a properly handloaded .32-20 won't do. I even consider the entire species of untra-short, short magnum rifle cartridges to be necessary. Again they do nothing that older tried and true calibers have not done well for decades.

All these new cartridges that hve been flooding the market and filling the pages of the shooting press the last few years have one goal in mind, and it ain't improved performance, it is to sell more new rifles and handgun. That is all.

So if you've bought the hype around the .450 Marlin enjoy it. You won't have to worry about a bunch of old .45-70 fans to try taking it away from you.

[Lastmohecken]

I never had problems with my BLRs do the cold weather, but then again, cold weather to me is 20 degrees and I probably have not used my BLR's in colder weather then that.

However, when I was younger and maybe tougher, I have had functional problems with other guns, due to lube issues in extreme cold weather, so I can see how the wrong lube, in extreme weather, most likely would cause problems.

[eagles]

Doc it was the "congratulatory " remark that sounded snide, looking down your nose with big wisdom type of remark , as in if I were as smart as you , I would just buy a 45-70 !. If it was not meant like you knew a lot more than I did and I was a fool for wanting a 450 marlin caliber than I took it wrong , sorry By they way did you know that belt on the 450 marlin is much handier for the lifter to get a hold of ? Ask maker Regan Noneman about that advantage to the case design , probably NOT intended for that but A nice suprise he told me about the other day . Here it is plain and simple . I like big bore lever guns and I dont have a 450 marlin . I have had 45-70's in the past. Plus I can buy hot ammo at my local shop (dont handload ) if I need to without sending for it or handloading it . YES , that being said I could also tell everyone to just shoot a 50-110 it will do everything the 45-70 does and more power if you want , in a modern gun. I coluld say just get a 405 model 95, mine is throated so I can shoot 400 grain slugs which have a much better sectional density than most 45 rounds and I can shoot spitzers in the box magazine , BUT everyone likes different cartridges ,sometimes just for the hell of it Do we need them all HELL NO !!!! . But you know blondes, red heads , Bruenettes all function about the same also but glad we have some choices . I will confess if they come out with a 55 caliber all killer lever round I might have to have it if I could afford it , makes life more fun !!!!

[Borregos]

Just in case there is any misunderstanding about the failure to fire that I posted about above I should point out that the gun was NIB and no extra lube had ever been applied inside the bolt.

[76/444]

Doc it was the "congratulatory " remark that sounded snide, looking down your nose with big wisdom type of remark , as in if I were as smart as you , I would just buy a 45-70 !. If it was not meant like you knew a lot more than I did and I was a fool for wanting a 450 marlin caliber than I took it wrong , sorry By they way did you know that belt on the 450 marlin is much handier for the lifter to get a hold of ? Ask maker Regan Noneman about that advantage to the case design , probably NOT intended for that but A nice suprise he told me about the other day . Here it is plain and simple . I like big bore lever guns and I dont have a 450 marlin . I have had 45-70's in the past. Plus I can buy hot ammo at my local shop (dont handload ) if I need to without sending for it or handloading it . YES , that being said I could also tell everyone to just shoot a 50-110 it will do everything the 45-70 does and more power if you want , in a modern gun. I coluld say just get a 405 model 95, mine is throated so I can shoot 400 grain slugs which have a much better sectional density than most 45 rounds and I can shoot spitzers in the box magazine , BUT everyone likes different cartridges ,sometimes just for the hell of it Do we need them all HELL NO !!!! . But you know blondes, red heads , Bruenettes all function about the same also but glad we have some choices . I will confess if they come out with a 55 caliber all killer lever round I might have to have it if I could afford it , makes life more fun !!!!

I'll buy that! Well said.

I guess us 444 guys aren't the only ones that 45/70 fellas get all nervous and insecure around!

[76/444]

Just in case there is any misunderstanding about the failure to fire that I posted about above I should point out that the gun was NIB and no extra lube had ever been applied inside the bolt.

So, we are to assume that the lube from the factory was proper for sub zero tempts?

[eagles]

on the 444 , I had marlins first model with the long barrel when it first came out . Bought it from Herters and got it delivered in the Mail , ahhh the good old days . Shot a few head of game with it and loved it . On the Browning , I realy think they hAVE to know of this problem , as some of the other guys indicated they contacted them on it . IF it is just lube , Browning should put a BIG warning label in the box advising shooters who want to shoot in low temps to remove all the grease , telling them what might happen otherwise , or just fix the design so that wont happen as often , if it can be fixed givien the way it operates .