OT: When to squeeze the trigger on a hunt?

[86er]

I just had two friends return from the same late season elk hunt. One is a happy camper and the other cursing and throwing fits. The hunts were video-taped so I got to see the action. I couldn't understand how Mike was ready to go back and Dave is fuming. This was a 5 day hunt. Here's what happened:

Dave rode up on horseback with the guide and tied off the horses near an aspen patch. They crawled to the edge of a meadow and looked down. About 150 yds out a 7X6 bull is standing alone, calm and unaware of them. The guide says it's a big 6 or 7 year old and "shoot". Dave says "But it's only the first morning" and "We barely got the saddle warm". The guide urges him, saying they would be hard pressed to find a bigger one. Dave declares "if we don't see something good tomorrow we'll come back and try for him".

Mike made it to spike camp with two hours of light left on the first day. They went 400-500 yds on foot after setting up. Two bulls are spotted, one close in the timber (75 yds) and one on a hillside (200 yds). Mike brought two rifles and asked the guide if he'd carry one. An open sighted lever gun was for close possibilities and a BLR 308 with scope was for one "out there". He told the guide before they started that he'd prefer to use the open sighted gun for the sake of nostalgia, but would use the other if it seemed the best opportunity. He also said he was not a trophy hunter but would like a bull that was over 5X5 with a wide spread. After evaluating the bulls, the guide says the one in the timber is a 5X6 with a very wide spread and heavy mass. He is missing or broke one brow tine. Mike asks a good question! "If we get an elk today, what do we do for the next 4 days"? After hearing the answer he decides the elk in the timber is what he came for in size and stature as well as the presentation. He shoots the bull and they have to track it a bit and shoot it once again. They clean and quarter by lantern light.

Day Two: Dave is looking for a bull as good or better than the one he saw yesterday. 9 hours of glassing, hiking and riding.
Mike has made friends with the lodge cook and helps cook dinner and start the next days breakfast. Day Three: Dave is looking for a big bull in another canyon 3 miles away. Mike rides out to another spike camp with the guide to help do maintenance on the camp and stay overnight. Day Four: Dave makes one stalk in the morning but blows it. They decide to go back and look for the first bull he saw. Mike fishes with the guide on the way back to the lodge and catches a few. He sees a coyote and some mule deer that he videos. At the lodge, he asks if he can help take care of the horses just to learn how and next thing you know he's pitching in. Day Five: Dave is in the area where he saw the bull on the first day. They see him once and make a stalk, but can't relocate him after closing the distance. Mike was invited to tag along on another hunters first day to video for him. He also tries his hand at cow calling and learns to use an elk decoy. The hunter is successful and Mike decides to practice gutting and skinning under the guidance of the outfitter.

Dave did not get a lot of sleep, is worn out, did not interact with anyone at the lodge but his guide and didn't see Mike all week. He came home empty handed. Mike made new friends, had a great time and got a nice trophy. I saw the videos. Dave saw a bunch of bulls but he was stuck on one as good or better than the one he saw on Day One.

I told Dave he needs to define his expectations and motivations before he gets to a hunt. Nobody is sending them home before the last day regardless of when they get an animal. I said he has to decide if the experience and hunt are more important to him than the kill. I also said if you want to culminate the experience with pulling the trigger you have to accept the opportunity presented without regard to the size of the antlers. He's still mad and has called the outfitter asking for a reduced price on a hunt next year. I told him that was rude and the outfitter has no obligation since they gave him several opportunities fair and square. Mike will be back there next year.

After a long story - what do you do? I understand how Dave feels and I can't say for certain if I'd do anything different from what he did. I think I'd be a little disappointed if I didn't get one. I also think about 3/4 into the trip I would have decided what was most important to me - getting one or giving my all for the perfect one even if it meant no game. I think Mike was practical and realistic. He had a goal and the chance to meet his goal was given to him on the first day. He took advantage of it and ended up with a whole mess of other experiences and memories because of that decision.
Tough predicament for anyone........

[Pete44ru]

IMHO, "Dave" is both wrong & rude, in addition to going uprepared mentaly for unexpected occurances - all of which my be explained (but not excused) by inexperience.

The only part of "Mike's" hunt that I don't agree with is having the guide serve as gunbearer for an additional rifle.
If I make a decision to take more than one rifle, I decide which to use in a given hunt and carry my own.

.

[J Miller]

I once went on a hunt where I shot my javalina on the first morning. My hunt was over. Unlike Dave and Mike's trip, there wasn't much for me to do but sit around camp while the others hunted.

However, I did get my animal, I brought home the bacon. And oooohhh was it tasty and delicious.

I think had I been there that elk Dave passed up would have been DRT and I'd have a freezer full of eats. To be honest Mike's hunt sounded like a lot of fun to me.

Joe

[O.S.O.K.]

This is pretty obvious.

Dave is a pessamist and reaped what he sowed.

How can you blame the outfitter when you passed up a good bull and had several other chances? Surely he knew that if he held a certain standard, that he was limiting his opportunity to shoot one?

[O.S.O.K.]

I once went on a hunt where I shot my javalina on the first morning. My hunt was over. Unlike Dave and Mike's trip, there wasn't much for me to do but sit around camp while the others hunted.

However, I did get my animal, I brought home the bacon. And oooohhh was it tasty and delicious.

I think had I been there that elk Dave passed up would have been DRT and I'd have a freezer full of eats. To be honest Mike's hunt sounded like a lot of fun to me.

Joe

A tasty javalina? How did you cook it?

[Mike D.]

Cool saddle, big bull, shoot! I don't care if it's the first minute of the hunt, you DO NOT pass up a 6X7 elk. Dave's rude and ignorant behavior negates his right to hunt elk ever again. I doubt that the guide would accept his request for a return hunt anyway.

[iceman]

The only gthing I can say is bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. I have taken a few animals on the first outing of the season and don't feel cheated at all. I have also passed early in the season and have been shunked that season too. My decision and nobody else.

[L_Kilkenny]

My advise......when the guide say's that's the one, pull the dang trigger!!!!!! Being mad/upset doesn't help a anything. The man needs to chill.

LK

[76/444]

Dave was a jerk.

I wouldn't guide for him again.

He obviously hasn't a clue what it means to take game in the wild.

He had horses to ride, fish to catch, and beautiful country, to enjoy doing what he wished with the first bull for the rest of the contract time,... if he hadn't been such a jerk.

This is what happens when you deal with some trophy hunters, ... instead of meat hunters.




Just one man's opinion.

[RIHMFIRE]

SOUNDS LIKE DAVE NEEDS A TRIP BEHIND THE BARN...
ITS ALSO SOUNDS LIKE THIS IS NOT HIS FIRST TRIP EITHER...
HE SHOULD BE GREATFUL HE CAN AFFORD THESE
GREAT OPPRTUNITIES....AND ENJOY EVERY MOMENT...
SUCCESSFUL OR NOT....
I KNOW I WOULD IF I HAD A CHANCE...

[BigSky56]

86er, Mike is the kind of guy that is a pleasure to be around and guide for and hunt with send him my way. The dumba$$ has ahold of Dave probably not only concerning hunting but everything in his life to bad a horse didnt kick him in the head to adjust his attitude. danny

[rjohns94]

thought Terry and jumped in on this thread.

I'm not a trophy hunter but if one is presented, I certainly would have taken the shot on the first day. all depends on the expectations. I hunt for the experience, i cull for the meat. If I was hunting for a trophy, and it was my expectations of a long difficult process, I might have passed the first day, and hunted hard all week because that was my expectation. If I got nothing, then I would be ok with that. If I wanted elk steaks as the end result, then I would shoot the first representative elk that was within the limits of my ability and weapon.

[Nath]

I have experiance similar Joe.
We were on a red deer hind cull in Scotland and I travelled up with a freind.
Day one I had trecked the land and day two I was laying into them and getting the job done.
I enjoyed the few days and took six deer I think it was. The guy I travelled with seemed to lose the spirit somehow. I think he expected them to just be everywhere and did not like the idea of hard work, it spoilt it a little and we came home early. Shame really, I was really happy and cherish that time to today.

Hey ho.

Nath.

[TedH]

I can tell you I would not have hesitated to pull the trigger on the first bull. When my brother and I went on your bear hunt in Maine I got to hunt for two hours before killing a bear. No, it wasn't the biggest bear around for sure, but it was my choice to take it. We had a lot of good times filling the rest of the days we were there. I'd do the same thing again.

[Tycer]

My advise......when the guide say's that's the one, pull the dang trigger.
LK

Yep. And do it NOW.

[Ben_Rumson]

You s'pose Dave would have blamed his rifle if he missed his shot?

[L_Kilkenny]

You s'pose Dave would have blamed his rifle if he missed his shot?

No, now you're confusing him with of ME!!!!!

LK

[Mac in Mo]

In my opinion your buddy Dave is not enough of a man to take responsibility for his own decisions. Not the type I like to associate with. I had the good fortune to go on a self-guided hunt in Colorado in 2001. I went with some friends who had been there before on public ground. It was an excellent experience for me, even though I never saw an elk all week. I haven't been able to get back since, but will once things straighten out for me. It was so different from what I am used to here in Missouri, those mountains were incredible. I can say that I think about it all the time. Your buddy should appreciate the opportunities he has. Kevin

[KirkD]

Before the hunt, Dave needs to make a decision: If he is committed to an Elk with a certain size rack, then he needs to a) realize he may come home empty and b) he needs to accept the consequences of HIS OWN DECISION.

If Dave is just happy to get a decent Elk, then he needs to pull the trigger when the guide says to. The guide knows how often they are likely to run into Elk. Dave should not assume that because he runs into a decent Elk in the first hours of a hunt that, therefore, it's going to be like that for the next 5 days. Sometimes you just get lucky right off the starting line.

Dave's main problem is his attitude. If a fellow makes a decision of his own free will, then he needs to accept the consequences and not keep whining about how it all turned out. He most certainly should not be a wet blanket on the general atmosphere with his chafing.

I avoid guys like Dave, like the plague. I go into the bush to relax, unwind and enjoy God's creation. The last thing I need is a frustrated whiner contaminating the camp. Dave needs a good spanking and sent to bed without any supper.

[J Miller]

The trip I got my javalina was the second hunt my friend and I did in that area. It was a handgun muzzle loader only hunt. The first year, 1980 or 81 we got camped and proceeded to look for a good place to hunt. Found lots of tracks. The little piggies were all over the place. We were sitting on hill and saw a heard of them; biggg porker, smaller porker, then in decending order of size down to the piglets cross a wide open area across a wash. We knew there were hunters to our left so we crossed behind the piggies and got ready so that when the other hunters shot at them they'd pass right through us. We were in a very heavily grown area were visibility was measured in feet or a yard or two so we were hunkered down to see under the brush and scrub as best we could.
The other hunters let loose a volley, the piggies headed for us like a stampede of cattle and passed through, between and around us so fast we simply could not get a good shot. My fiend did get a shot on the run but missed. I came upon a 'lil bitty piglet sighted down on him, counted coup, and told him to go grow up, I'd check in on him in a year or two.
That was our second day of hunting. We didn't see another animal for the rest of our hunt.
But we were happy. We got to hunt.

Back on topic, I think Dave needs to reassess his priorities and like as been said, enjoy his hunts, successful or not.

I think the first thing I'm gonna do when I get back west is put in for a Roosevelt Lake handgun only hunt maybe get my friend and his dad to do one for old times sake.

Joe

[HATCHETTJACK]

poor dave, imagine how crappy life in general is for him... i try to stay away from negative people, i have no use for them

[Dave]

I also think about 3/4 into the trip I would have decided what was most important to me - getting one or giving my all for the perfect one even if it meant no game.

That is kind of the question right there. If you are sure enough trophy hunting you always face the possibility of not spotting an animal that is as good as what you are looking for. You have to accept that. The luck factor is always there and a hot doe might bring the biggest buck in the state right in front of 12 year old on his first hunt or you may not see anything for 2 days.


If you are recreational hunting you want to get a critter and have fun. It is supposed to be a good time not a mission from hell.

Even if I went on a guided trophy hunt and did not score a big trophy I still would not pout and complain because it is not right to be that way when you could have scored but you made the decision to keep hunting instead. That hunter made the call to pass up what he was advised was a good elk.

[horsesoldier03]

Yep, he only has himself to blame, he was too focused on the kill and not the exeriance!

[papabear]

[quote="iceman"]The only gthing I can say is bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.quote]
I have to agree here he should have taken the bull when he had the chance no one to blame but him self

[FWiedner]

Mr. Dave made a bad decision the first chance he got and spent the rest of his trip dealing with the repercussions. He saw a trophy and made the mistaken assumption that it was there for the taking any time he wanted, so he decided to look for something "better". Lotta hard work to come home empty-handed. Unfortunately, he seems like the sort of guy that wants to blame someone else for the choice he made.

Sounds like Mike had the kind of trip that we all crave. He had a plan, he did the job, and he reaped the rewards.

Is this a case of applying the 7 P's?

An intresting juxtaposition of experience, in any case. One of those Goofus and Gallant stories.