Marlin 1894CS Frustrations

[loader]

I recently traded for a marlin 1894CS .357. I've missed having a .357 lever and am mostly enjoying this one very much. Switched the rear sight for the Marbles Bullseye, which I love and can actually see. The frustration begins when it starts giving me the "dreaded Marlin jam" with 38's and I try and get the part to fix the problem. Marlin reps tell me they cant sell the carrier to me that I need to go to e-gunparts. When I do that the part has been backordered for more than a month. Brownells and Midway are also out of stock. Today I called Marlin again and was finally told that they dont even have one in stock. Very poor customer service and product support in my opinion. So I guess I'm going to have to try the welding and filing solution or the drill and pin idea. Hate risking messing up the part without a replacement but also dont like having a 2 shot repeater lever gun. Anybody else have this sort of problem with Marlin?
I dont get to post on here very often due to the board logging me off constantly when I'm on either of my home puters, so I only post during my infrequent visits to the public library. However I am still a frequent lurker and very much enjoy you gentlemens discussions and knowledge.

[J Miller]

loader,

Sorry about your computer problems, and sorry about the Marlin.

I just checked Brownell's and they are out of stock on that carrier also.
There's gotta be other sources of Marlin parts out there ... I would think.

At this point your almost stuck with a gunsmith or someone who can weld up the old carrier. Probably would be the best fix anyway. Weld up the damaged area and radius the lever.

Joe

[Terry Murbach]

DOES IT FEED 357MAG CARTRIDGES ??

[Buck Elliott]

Sounds like there must be an epidemic...?!!?

[oic0]

"Lord please protect my wife, my home, my animals, me, and more importantly my 1894 from the dreaded "marlin jam""

[nemhed]

That's funny, mine haven't caught it!

[Cast Bullet Hunter]

Did you try Jack First, 605-343-9544?

[1886]

DOES IT FEED 357MAG CARTRIDGES ??

Terry asked a great question. 1886.

[FWiedner]

.

A marlin 1894CS .357

+ 38's

= the "dreaded Marlin jam"

X "DOES IT FEED 357MAG CARTRIDGES ??"

= Nothing wrong with the Marlin

[Noah Zark]

DOES IT FEED 357MAG CARTRIDGES ??

Excellent question, because the simplest and most inexpensive fix would be to use 357 cases with appropriately-adjusted loads for 38 Spl performance, assuming you handload.

The other option would be to seat bullets out to increase the cartridge OAL. If you do that, you may need to switch to heavier bullets or bullets of a different style.

Not all Marlin 1894s in 357 were set up to handle 38 Specials, especially those 38 Spl cartridges with comparatively short OALs. Does your Marlin's barrel say "357 Magnum -- 38 Special," or just "357 Magnum?"

If it is set up for 38 Specials, try cartridges with longer OALs and see if they don't work for you.

Noah

[J Miller]

Edited because my answer was wrong and I don't want someone else to read it and think it's fact. Please see adirondakjack's photo essay on the bottom of this page for correct information.

Joe

[jjm]

For the 38 spcl, try a OAL of 1.529. This has worked for me with no feed problems

[adirondakjack]

Joe Miller is wrong on this one. When the Marlin jams, it is because the carrier is peened on the bottom, the rise as the cam on the lever lifts it comes too late to cut off the next round in the tube , allowing a second round to feed on TOP of the carrier.

When PROPERLY TIMED, a marlin will feed a very wide variety of OAL. I just got done with one tuned for .38s at 1.500, that will feed anything from 1.550 all the way down to .38 Short Colt at around 1.1". How that works is the carrier has to pop up quick enough after letting in a round from the tube to catch the rim of the next round before it too slips past and jams up the works. That carrier is making just the slightest "bob" down and back up in order to let in one and only one round, and not get outrun by the mag tube spring squirting two onto the carrier.... The trouble is as supplied by Marlin, they are rarely if ever THAT WELL TIMED. Yer lucky when they will feed .357 and .38. they can be made to run slick and feed almost anything, but that's rare from the factory.

[J Miller]

Hmmmm, I hate it when old threads get resurrected. Especially when I repeat something I read and get told I'm wrong. Phooey! OK, I'm wrong about this, I should stick to Winchesters .
Now if I could just read what is printed and comprehend it the first time I'd avoid the foot-in-mouth syndrome.

A-jack,
You know what we need? We need someone who has a lot of computer expertise to make us a digitally animated video of how this jam happens.
In slow mo of course.

Joe

[adirondakjack]

Well, no digital animation, but I can mebbe brew something up here.

Stand by.
FWIW Joe, yer far from the first to say that line about a round under the carrier, and likely won't be the last. I just try and cut these notions off before they spread. It ain't personal, pard.

AJ, what is somethin of an expert on the innards of a Marlin (one of the few known knowns around here).

[Hobie]

I have never seen a genuine Marlin jam but I have seen loose this or that jam things up. I did have a Winchester 94 let one in under the carrier now and then. It was a .44 Mag. If I'd know that it was such a simple fix I'd probably still have it!

[AJMD429]

Boy, I learned lots of good stuff so far on this thread, and mine doesn't even jam [yet, knock on wood ].

I agree about seeing if .357's work reliably, and at least for now, using longer OAL rounds in .38 Spl, or using .357 Mag loads, while looking for the ultimate 'feeds-any-length' fix.

I notice some folks assumed you reload ("The other option would be to seat bullets out to increase the cartridge OAL. If you do that, you may need to switch to heavier bullets or bullets of a different style."); they perhaps failed to note that your moniker is "loader", and not "reloader"...
So, if you don't reload, hopefully at least the .357 Mag factory loads will feed and keep you going until you can get the action timed or smoothed or whatever.

I dont get to post on here very often due to the board logging me off constantly when I'm on either of my home puters, so I only post during my infrequent visits to the public library. However I am still a frequent lurker and very much enjoy you gentlemens discussions and knowledge.

That was such a bad issue for myself and a couple others on the forum that I know I'd seriously considered quitting the forum, but Hobie saved the day, fixed the problem, and you guys still can enjoy my wit, wisdom, and charm here nearly every day.* SERIOUSLY though, see if it is fixable somehow; for me and the others, I think it was something to do with the "Blue Sky" satellite internet service, vs. the forum host software. Anyhow, Hobie fixed it a couple of months ago, so you might want to try again and see if your home computers now work on the forum. Mine went from logging me off every few seconds, to NOT AT ALL...

*(Sorry Hobie, if all the hate-mail you now get jams up your in-box... )

[adirondakjack]

Ok here goes. Patience, read slowly, then read again. this gets a bit confusing, but ultimately makes sense. I've tuned a peepot of em to the Nth degree, so I got real good at seeing what happens inside there when ya cycle em.

Exhibit #1



The parts arranged on the outside of the gun. Note the position of the carrier, the snail cam on the lever that lifts the carrier, the round in the mag tube, etc. This is ONE OF the two trouble spots in the cycle.


Exhibit two:


Here the lever has been cycled open and is on the way back up, This is yer little "Bob" I was talking about on an earlier post. The carrier has to be exactly timed right to prevent two short rounds entering. Longer rounds are somewhat less critical.

SOMETIMES in the early going you can chase the problem by running longer rounds. But as it gets worse ya get more "close calls" where the carrier bites on the rim of a second round before smashing it back into the tube, causing more peening of the carrier, worse timing, etc until it's a jamomatic.

Exhibit Three:

I know, blurry but bear with me.

As stated, the tongue hanging down in front of the carrier WILL prevent a round going under the carrier, even in the most extreme carrier lift situation because the bolt is in the way of the carrier lifting any more. Why folks make the error is sometimes when a gun is jammed, they take the lever screw out, pull out the lever, the bolt jumps back, the carrier flips up and THEN ya get that jammed round UNDER the carrier. That can ONLY happen during disassembly, never when in operation. A jammed Marlin means bad timing, and'or loose screws, and/or two rounds on top of the carrier (well, one and a part of the next).

While the fixes end up a book, PART OF the fix (I just finished one BTW) is to build up the ramp on the bottom of the carrier.

I filed the ramp on this one down a little, then JB Welded a piece of sawzall blade to the bottom of the carrier. This is NOT a total fix. It is part of a bunch of mods I do to rework the Marlin, but it gave me back the lift lost when the gun was out of time. DO NOT think all ya gotta do is epoxy a shim under the carrier. Best bet is to read and follow the stuff here:
http://marauder.homestead.com/rifles.html

[Griff]

Good explanation Jack. Even I understood that, and I don't own a Marlin 1894. Although, I've cleared a LOT of them with the DMJ.

[J Miller]

A-Jack,

Thanks, makes more sense now. If you don't mind I'm gonna keep those pics for future reference.

Joe

[AJMD429]

Thanks, adirondakjack, for the helpful info.

So far I feel there must be something wrong, because I've got several 1894's, and none have ever given me problems except my oldest 10,000-round-plus .44, which only jammed once, when I had the muzzle pointing up, and worked the lever very slowly (as to not alert a deer).

I almost feel 'left out' in that my Marlins are working without a hitch...

At least now I know what I'm in for if they mess up and I need to fix them.

[adirondakjack]

Thanks, adirondakjack, for the helpful info.

So far I feel there must be something wrong, because I've got several 1894's, and none have ever given me problems except my oldest 10,000-round-plus .44, which only jammed once, when I had the muzzle pointing up, and worked the lever very slowly (as to not alert a deer).

I almost feel 'left out' in that my Marlins are working without a hitch...

At least now I know what I'm in for if they mess up and I need to fix them.

Not a surprize if ya get a smooth gun to start with and use it gently. That is not always the case. One of mine, when NIB would jam when EMPTY. The other two developed issues related to being run hard and fast.

The .44 is the most problematic of the bunch. The common use of SWC bullets and the tight .44 mag chamber specs are an evil combination in a rifle made using methods and machines going back to Franklin Roosevelt. The .45 is less problematic as the RNFP bullet profile and loose SAAMI specs for .45 Colt give ya a little more leeway in timing. .357 is another can of worms entirely, but can be made to work easier owing to the forgiveness built in by the factory in the form of a bit of a funnel for the rounds at the barrel root. All can be made better.

[J Miller]

AJMD, adirondakjack,

I've got one Marlin 1894 right now and have had three others. So far, knock on wood, non of them have had this problem occur. Right after I got the one I have now I pulled it apart and looked at the snail area like I've read and found it was rounded. Not a lot, but no point like other pics have shown either. So either Marlin did it cos it was a Cowboy version, or someone before me did it.
It looked new when I bought it, but there was no box or manual so it was at the least slightly used.

adirondakjack,
So the .45s with the RNFP bullets and gargantuan chambers are easier on the actions ... OK, then what about fellows such as me who rarely use RNFPs and prefer Keith SWCs? My last two Marlin 1894s (both Cowboys) fed the Keith bullets like water through a funnel. The previous one (an 1894 S) wouldn't feed them at all.
Any comments or suggestions you can offer to keep this one running? It's not going anywhere.

Joe

[adirondakjack]

Joe, if the snail cam has been radiused, and when ya cycle it slowly while looking into the port, the rounds funnel fine with no tendancy to catch on the chambr mouth, just keep er oiled up, pay attention that the mag tube and spring don't get gunked up and rusted (ignore the mag tube at your own peril, as a slow mag tube spring will cause issues), and enjoy. You won't likely shoot it enough and certainly not hard enough to have problems. The problem child is the rifle suffering tolerance stacking that puts it on the edge of proper timing or beyond the happy timing envelope to start with, and/or those run hard.

ANYWAY, the sun is shining, the wind has laid down, and I got 400 or so pounds of WW to turn into ingots. Enjoy.

[pwl44m]

@ AJMD. don't feel left out, I have a Marlin 357 that I have had for over 20 yrs and it hasn't given Me so much as a sneeze. Of course I haven't fired it yet so that might be part of the Prob. I have it's twin 44mag also-same Prob. I don't want to wear them out.