.450 Revolver Cartridge

[NonPCnraRN]

I found a cartridge on Steves Pages named the .450 Revolver. It has a 0.510" rim diam and is 0.479" inside at the base and neck. It is only 0.693" long compared to the 45 Auto Rim which is 0.898" long. It's rim thickness is less than that of the 45 Colt at 0.043" vs 0.060". Does this cartridge have any practical use? Does anyone know what it was originally chambered in? Could a 45 Colt carbine be reworked to increase magazine capacity as a plinker or small game shooter? Or would cutting down 45 Colt brass to that length be a better bet. It would sure cut down on the amount of powder used and a 180 gr or 200 gr semi-wadcutter used in the 45 ACP would be good bullets I would think.

[Nath]

Was that an English Enfield offering? Webley had the 455 too, that was a short case and the bullet I think had some hollow base. I think they only went 600-700fps,,,

Nath.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

There was a big article on this and it's relatives in a Handloader a few months back. I will look up the issue and get you the date when I get home later. It's a relative of the 450 Colt, 455 Webley, 455 Eley, etc. It's not usable in place of 45 Colt due to the extremely thin rim and the resultant problem with headspace in a revolver.

I believe adirondakjack has a round called the 45 Cowboy Special that really fits the bill for what you're after. He recently posted a video of a Marlin cycling a mix of 45 Colt and 45 Cowboy Specials. He has the brass made and properly headstamped and all. I'm sure he'll see this and respond.

Here's the other thread with video.

More Info.

[adirondakjack]

I have here an original .450 Adams (aka .450 Revolver) cartridge from the late 1860s, early 1870s. The original was the first Boxer primed cartridge, used a copper case, an iron base, and was filled with 13 gr FFFG and a soft lead bullet of about 225 grains IIRC.

It is the father anf grandfather of the Webley, aka Colt-Eley cases and NO it won't work in place of .45 Colt, but was part of the thought process that went into developing a proper "colt-rimmed" correctly made short case (not simply cut down cases, as the cases taper inside, rendering a case that short too thick). The C45S is the same length as ACP so it uses ACP dies.

We use em in any .45 Colt revolver and in specially prepared Marlins and Toggle links.

The brass is made as a custom order for me by Starline. I've sold close to half a million of em in 3+ years. See cowboy45special.com for details.

Do note the "check out this video" thread now running on the forum for the latest C45S mod to a Marlin.

[NonPCnraRN]

Could the barrel be set back and rechambered for the Cowboy Special exclusively? Could you use a 24" barrel for a 20" barreled carbine with a Cowboy Special chamber? I was thinking that it would be a hoot to have a large bore high capacity levergun plinker but with accuracy good enough for small game hunting. Chambered specifically for that cartridge I thing accuracy would be a lot better than having the bullet rattling down the oversized 45 Colt chamber on the way to the bore. If it had 45 ACP power it could also be used for SD. The 45 Colt cartridge is 1.43 times as long as the 45 ACP so a 10 round mag would hold 14 Cowboy Special Rounds. That would make for a total of 15, with one in the chamber. A 12 round mag (24" barrel) would mean 16+1 for 17 rounds total. I don't know if an extra 4 rounds would be worth all the fuss. Maybe not. In California it would probably become a Cowboy Assault Weapon.

[adirondakjack]

My 24" Marlin holds 17+1 C45S. The SIXTEEN incher holds 10+1. In a Marlin (or The big ruger revolvers) one can load the C45S well into .460 Rowland territory. I brewed up a 230 XTP load that runs 1400 fps out of the Marlin. Even a standard ACP service level load is nothing to sneeze at

Yes one could "set back" a barrel and have a proper chamber cut, though the deterioration of potential accuracy even with the long bullet jump is not as bad as ya might think. I'm in the middle of building a single shot (#5 Rolling Block) wth a proper short chamber and a stiff, heavy barrel just to see where the potential goes, but it's not done yet (I gotta fit the stock and polish and blue the metal yet, the barreled action is done).

To do a barrel cut, re-thread, chamber and adjust the mag tube to match is NOT as big a deal as it sounds, but by the time ya buy a chamber reamer and have the above done, ya got some bucks tied up. If ya simply do the action mods, it's real cheap AND yer really not committed permanently if ya don't wanna be.

[NonPCnraRN]

Adirondakjack: Has anyone thought of using the Cowboy Special in the FA 97? It seems to me that it would be a natural as you could use longer/heavier bullets and stay within the limitations of the shorter cylinder. With the modern powders now available to reloaders, the large case of the 45 Colt isn't as necessary as it was in the black powder days. If I had the dough to buy a 97 I would get a 4" barreled gun with a C45S cylinder and the rounded gripframe for a PPP.

[adirondakjack]

Hmmm, interesting. At one time, I dreamed of a reasonable .45 version of what Jim T and co. did with the 480 Achilles. Recently a friend sent me a few samples of an old timey bullet, an RCBS version of the old 265 grain HB bullet. Designed for the Webley, it sizes fine to .452, and loaded to use the last lube groove as a crimp groove in the Cowboy .45 Special case, it ends up 1.450 long. I intend to try em in the rolling block, but yeah, in a revolver they'd be a fine, low to medium velocity thumper as well.

[BAGTIC]

I believe the best option would be to use a bullet with a large meplat and as long an ogive as possible.
The large meplat would enhance terminal effects and the long meplat would keep velocities up where they really matter at the target. It is possible for a long ogive bullet slighly less that maximum possible weight for the cartridge to actually deliver more downrange momentum and velocity even when it starts off a little slower with lower recoil, etc. Game is seldom killed at the muzzle.

[bearhunter]

There was a big article on this and it's relatives in a Handloader a few months back. I will look up the issue and get you the date when I get home later. It's a relative of the 450 Colt, 455 Webley, 455 Eley, etc. It's not usable in place of 45 Colt due to the extremely thin rim and the resultant problem with headspace in a revolver.

I believe adirondakjack has a round called the 45 Cowboy Special that really fits the bill for what you're after. He recently posted a video of a Marlin cycling a mix of 45 Colt and 45 Cowboy Specials. He has the brass made and properly headstamped and all. I'm sure he'll see this and respond.

Here's the other thread with video.

More Info.

I remember that. That might be it.