OT - BSA Lee-Speed Patent in .303????????

[rjohns94]

Does anyone have a line on a BSA lee-speed patent in .303?? I'm looking for one in really rine shape if anyone could point me in the direction. I've done all the normal searches on gunbroker, gunsamerica, gunsinternational. thanks in advance.

[AJMD429]

Just to spare all the really uninformed and ignorant members who may stumble across this thread, I'll go ahead and ask (even though of course I already know, mind you)....

...what is a "BSA Lee-Speed Patent in .303..."?

[rjohns94]

"BSA made such rifles from 1892 until at least the 1930s, possibly (but unlikely) even later. The sporting versions were built on the early, pre-charger bridge Lee Metford/Lee Enfield actions, the bolt cover giving them a very sleek and elegant appearance. Later sporters were offered on the charger-bridged MkIII actions
The name "Lee Speed" comes from two designers' names--James Paris Lee, who invented the action that was used in all the Lee Metford and Lee Enfield military rifles---and Joseph Speed, RSAF designer, who took out patents on many of the features we associate with the Lee Enfield series of rifles. The term "Lee Speed" was used for commercial rifles (i.e., non-Government; intended for civilian sales). These rifles were mostly manufactured by the BSA company (who also made Gov't rifles, so they had the machinery in place to make sporting versions very economically), and many are stamped with the BSA logo. However, other companies also sold them, and put their own stamps on them--so you will find some Lee Speed rifles that are marked W.W. Greener, Army & Navy, Manton, etc. The "Lee Speed" was stamped on the rifles to indicate the patent holders The easiest way to tell if it's a commercial vs. Gov't rifle is the markings. Military rifles will have the sovereign's stamp; commercial guns will not.

Val Kilmer's rifle in Ghost and Darkness was one of the "sporter" models, and you can see what BSA offered in the reprint of their trade catalogue, available from http://www.skennerton.com/.html. I'm looking for one of these.

BSA offered several different versions and options on these rifles. Sadly, there is no excellent source of details on these rifles. It's disappointing that Skennerton's book--definitely the best book on Lee Enfields ever published--is very scanty on the Lee Speeds. It has some photos, but really just offers the same info as the old BSA catalog, which is currently the best source of info."

[2ndovc]

Mike,

A rare dog to be sure. At least in this country.

i've been chasing a commercial Speed/ Metford sporter for a decade or more.

I've seen only one in person and a what a beauty it was, didn't have enough cash at the time
but, Wow!

Had a Metford and all the accessories for several years
until was offered a bunch of money for it.


jb

[Hobie]

I'll keep my eyes open. I know I can't afford one. Oh, but they are beauties. These are the bolt guns I really like.

[Ben_Rumson]

Val Kilmer's rifle in Ghost and Darkness was one of the "sporter" models

I noticed too & stopped the DVD a few times to ogle it

[rjohns94]

more pictures can be seen here:

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Th ... e_Darkness

[JReed]

I have only seen one in person and he still aint selling ( can't blame him that thing is a tack driver with his loads). Best of luck with your search.

[jc5]

The above post with info on Lee Speeds was taken verbatim from the following thread:
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=23226

(Give a little credit, eh? It took me a lot of time and effort to research that info---it wasn't sitting conveniently in a book somewhere)

Anyway, if you go to that link, you can find a lengthy discussion of Lee Speeds, with photos.

I'm researching these rifles, so if you have any data to share or specific questions, please feel free to email me.

They are truly beautiful rifles, especially the higher end ones.

rjohns94, if you need a Leed Speed rifle, I can find you one---let me know.

Best regards
JC5

[awp101]

rjohns94, if you need a Leed Speed rifle, I can find you one---let me know.

Ooooh, another enabler is always welcome around here so, welcome!

[Nath]

Hows this one?

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/ ... re][]=.303

Good luck,

Nath.

[jc5]

awp101, thanks for the welcome! Cthulhu fhtagn right back at ya!

Nath, that one for sale looks great! I've emailed the seller for more details. (I'm trying to gather data on markings and features for every Lee Speed I see.) I'll post again when I know more about it. Right now, the only thing I see that could make it more desireable would be a barrel rib. Not very practical, granted, but pretty cool.

Importing from the UK might be a hassle for us yanks, but definitely worth it.

[rjohns94]

yes it was taken word for word except what i deleted. I made no pretense that it was my info. just answered a question quickly

[Winchester 71]

yes it was taken word for word except what i deleted. I made no pretense that it was my info. just answered a question quickly
yes it was taken word for word except what i deleted. I made no pretense that it was my info. just answered a question quickly

If you're going to quote a source, even if you delete a few words, it's considered polite to note the source, particularly if you are answering a question quickly. You clearly had to go to the source and copy it so you could delete things and post your response. There was no way to tell that you weren't presenting it as your own info. All that said, we all make mistakes. BTW, I own 4 of the Lee Speed rifles. If I was Lion hunting, I think I'd want the .375 thumper. Also a very popular cartridge in the late 1800s, early 1900s. Did anyone notice in the 4th wiki pic on the ghost of Darkness link that there was no cocking piece safety on Kilmer's rifle?

"Recoil is irrelevant when there is a tiger in your howdah." I don't know the source.

[rjohns94]

Winchester 71, thanks for the admonishment. Welcome to the forum. Would you be up to posting some pics of yours??

[Winchester 71]

Winchester 71, thanks for the admonishment. Welcome to the forum. Would you be up to posting some pics of yours??

I need to take some, but will be happy to do it, it might take awhile as they're in a couple of locations. It looks like we have a lot of common interests.

[sureshot]

Here's some pictures of my BSA Lee-Speed .303;






It has a full length barrel rib and one standing and two folding leaf sights, plus a ladder sight. There is a modest amount of fine engraving on the action, magazine bottom, and buttplate. The front sight is a copper blade. It also has a horn forend tip and pistol grip cap. Very nice walnut also.
I've shot it a couple of times and the 100yd sight was dead on for the ammo I was using and quite accurate.

Steve

[Hobie]

These guns are just cooooooool...

[rjohns94]

thats a beaut!! I'm looking at one currently that does not have the full ribbed barrel. that is a very kewl feature.

I've also been looking at the balistics of the .303 in 180 grain and 150 grain bullets. Very impressive for its age. One of those we just don't talk much about over here on this side of the pond. Hopefully I'll close the deal this week on one of these very kewl rifles.

[awp101]

I love the checkering on that pistol grip...

[jc5]

Hey sureshot,

Could you share some details on that beautiful Lee Speed rifle? Any stamps or proof marks? Maybe we can put a date on it.

[Borregos]

What an interesting thread, I have never seen one of those

[KCSO]

I don't currently have a Lee Speed but I am shootng a nice Parker Hale. If I come across another Lee Speed i will let you know.

Member LECS #43

[1988rrc]

If someone could find one of those, what is the price range?

[rjohns94]

it depends on the rilfe and the buyer. excellent condition would be a significant investment. The ones I have seen have been in the $2-3K range

[Nath]

Any good?

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/ ... re][]=.303

Nath.

[Bruce Scott]

[quote="Winchester 71]
Did anyone notice in the 4th wiki pic on the ghost of Darkness link that there was no cocking piece safety on Kilmer's rifle?
[/quote]


They were also made with a shotgun style sliding safety on the grip as in this pic:

[Bruce Scott]

Here's an LSA going for AU$1900 http://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/755/L ... d_303.html

Sadly, some clown has modified it.....

[model55]

this keeps showing up think we need to find someone to do some stocks and come up with some number 1 actions..............

[jc5]

Regarding that LSA for sale on http://www.ozgunsales.com/listing/755/L ... d_303.html, I tried unsuccessfully to contact the seller and get some more pics and data on the stamps and markings. Has anyone else tried to contact them?

Bruce, I'm not so sure it has been modified. What makes you say that? Do you just mean the aperture sight? Aftermarket sights are common on Lee Speeds, and I consider them to be acceptable modifications that do not affect collectibility (some people will disagree, which is fine). Some of these sights added value to the rifle and were the expression of an inidvidual owner's personal rifle. It would be different if it were a military issue rifle.

[Nath]

thats a beaut!! I'm looking at one currently that does not have the full ribbed barrel. that is a very kewl feature.

I've also been looking at the balistics of the .303 in 180 grain and 150 grain bullets. Very impressive for its age. One of those we just don't talk much about over here on this side of the pond. Hopefully I'll close the deal this week on one of these very kewl rifles.

Mike , I too just love the ballistics of the 303 Brit and can not understand why it is not used for sporting purposes more than is.

Good luck on your purchase

Nath.

[Bruce Scott]

Bruce, I'm not so sure it has been modified. What makes you say that? Do you just mean the aperture sight? Aftermarket sights are common on Lee Speeds, and I consider them to be acceptable modifications that do not affect collectibility (some people will disagree, which is fine).

Jeff,
I think the holes drilled in the receiver spoil it. I am also a bit put off by the alterations to the wood to accommodate the aperture sight.





Did you try bayswaterfirearms@iinet.net.au for more info?

[rjohns94]

Nath,

I put my quest off when I came across the Griffen & Howe 03 in 30-06, ca 1939, unfired and prisitine. I still haven't shot it. I'm trying to decide if I should shoot it or sell it to G&H for a profit.

[jc5]

Did you try bayswaterfirearms@iinet.net.au for more info?

I tried them but that email address keeps returning a server error. I don't get it...they want to sell a rifle, but they don't offer any way to contact them. Frustrating.

I can live with the scope holes on a commercial sporter, but you are right that they keep it from being factory original.