Need Advice Savage 99 - Updated!

[salvo]

Hope you guys can help me, I'm thinking of buying this Savage 99, it would be my first, so I just don't know much about them.
This one according to the seller is a 1949 model in 300 Savage #5193XX 24" barrel.
My question is regarding the scope mount on this rifle, the owner said it is flimsy and should be changed out, I really like the looks of it and figured it would be kinda unique for my only scoped levergun I hope it can be salvaged.
Anyways back to my question can you tell by looking at the pictures if another scope base would use the same D&T holes as this one? do they all use the same hole pattern? Is the D&T factory on this old of rifle?
I sure would hate to buy it only to discover more holes will need to be drilled in it.

Here are a few of the pictures sent to me.

[Pisgah]

That's a nice old rig. I'd be curious to know what makes him characterize the mount as flimsy. Certainly looks like one that would be sturdy, but first-hand examination would show more.

No way of knowing about the hole location o rnumber from that photo. Maybe someone on the forum has one and can give you a clue. I'd be a bit surprised, though, if the holes would match up with the most common mounts available today. I could be wrong, though.

I don't blame you for wanting to use the mount. It certainly looks "right" on that rifle. I'm curious, though, about the ring diameter. Assuming you want to replace the scope, will a new one fit the rings? If they are 1" rings, then no worries on that score.

[Hobie]

I think you need to research that scope mount. BTW, what is "flimsy" about it?

PS - PISGAH had the same ideas I had!

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I like that old rifle as-is. To me, the scope mount looks good and "period" on that rifle.

[Don McDowell]

Those mounts are the old B&L windage and elevation adjustable. They're generally not flimsy, but can be bumped out of alignment easier than the new scopes with all the adjustments internal.Altho it would be somewhat of a shame you could loctite those adjustment screws down , and replace that old scope with a modern adjustable scope.
There's a pretty good chance that with that rifle being as late 1940's as it is it very well could be factory drilled and tapped. The easiest way to find out I suppose would be to find a pair of weaver bases for it and see if they fit the holes or not.

[Ben_Rumson]

I'd shoot it as is and see what you can see... The base is a Kuharsky 1 piece base 75-61-22 part number for savage 99 F – DL Look closely on the strip that runs between the bases...you may see some writing there... On that rifle I’d say the rear mounting holes would have been factory D&T’d for the aperture sights available then... The holes are farther forward on later factory D&T’d rifles, not to mention correctly spaced for weaver bases on the receiver ring too... I’d guess the front holes were done by a gunsmith on that rifle... Dunno tho.. they could have been a factory option. In my books I can’t see any indication other than 1 inch scope tubes on the B&L scopes..

[salvo]

Don McDowell, your right the mount is the scope adjustment. I guess I'll have to just have a bit of blind faith that the base and scope still work and if not the D&T are located properly for a more standard mount and rings. The owner got the rifle in a deal of some sort and has not even shot it.

[Don McDowell]

Salvo, what I'ld do is shoot the rifle, if it holds zero, and the scope hasn't developed some bad parallax, I'ld make careful note of the settings on the adjustment then with a tiny amount of blue loctite secure them, and not worry about it again, should the scope not hold its zero.
I would think that ABO USA could work on that scope and get it back into tiptop shape if it needs it. Those were/are some very fine scopes and were considered the cream of the crop in their day.

[Old Savage]

I have seen those - one of my friends has pre 64 70 with that type and it works fine.

[salvo]

That's good to know that the scope can be rebuilt if need be!
I guess I'll go ahead and get it, I sure like the rifle regardless.

[86er]

I did a semi- restoration once where those kurarsky scope mounts were retained, but locked into position for a modern scope with internal adjustment to replace a broken scope. As long as you have two holes for the front and back mount you can either use an existing base or have a base custom made or customized by adding a hole where you need it. I wouldn't fret about the scope bases and mounts too much if you like the rifle and are comfortable with the deal.

[salvo]

Good info 86er, I kinda came to the same conclusion, if it does have a problem it can be fixed and most likely the mount and scope are in working condition any ways.

[Charles]

Yikes I feel old! I remember those B&L scopes w/o internal adjustments that came with the adjustable mounts. They were high dollar premium items in their time and didn't have the reputation for being flimsey or easy to knock out of adjustment. Use the rig and see how it goes. I will bet you will like it just fine.

[kimwcook]

Salvo, I'll just say BUY IT!

[Hillbilly]

I dont care for scopes on lever guns.... but that looks "right as rain" to me.

Period correct works for me!

Nice find

[salvo]

Well everything is settled, hope to have the Savage in a week or two. Thanks for all the help, I sure appreciate it!
Range report will follow

[J Miller]

Scott,

When you get the 99, please do some really close up detailed shots of that scope and it's mount. Especially the adjusters. I may not like scopes but old things like this fascinate the dickens outa me.

Joe

[salvo]

I'll do that Joe, I never thought I would like a scope on a lever, but as Hillbilly said it just looks right. I just hope it is functional!

[LeverBob]

A 99....drool,drool.....big time drool...

Salvo, if you buy it & don't like it, pm me & we'll work a deal. Been looking for one exactly like it for years. Can't do anything right now. But...if'n you can't stand the rifle, I would be interested.

I purchased a Rem. 700 '06 in 1964, just because I wanted to. Put a new BalVar 8A in Kuharsky mounts. It was THE scope in those days. When I bought a new/used Browning Safari in 7mm Mag. the next year I put the B&L on it. The Rem. got a new K4 in Weaver mounts for the 06'. You have a fine old classic scope with B&L lens' (the best in the world at that time). It is worth your attention.

This is a good opportunity for you to experience a golden classic combo. 300 Sav. is a terrific killer.

Best to you...and yes I still have northern Nev. covered!

LB

[salvo]

Thanks Bob my Kenpo brother, your first if I ever think about passing it on.
I could use a serious work out though!

[salvo]

Update!
Well as they say if it was not for bad luck I would have no luck at all!
I received the 99 last Friday, the scope mount is beyond repair unfortunately, so the first thing I did was remove it and contemplate my options, I really wanted to just get a Marbles tang sight and plug the D&T holes.
This was the surprise I found after removing the rear sight base.



A little bit of cleaning removed paint that was used to cover up an attempt to remove some type of engraving on the base of the finger lever and finger lever.




Needles to say the welding and D&T job was enough for me. I have been trying to contact the seller since Friday and was finally able to talk to him today. He will take it back, thank goodness, but with the holidays and his hunting season it's going to be a while.

LeverBob, I doubt you would want this but if you do I have $519.00 in the gun and shipping.
Not to mention in addition new .300 Savage dies, factory crimp die and about 400 once fired brass is on the way from two other purchases.
I will also lose the $50.00 transfer fee/background check.
This is what I get for not waiting on a Savage to come up for sale here on the classifieds

[salvo]

Scott,

When you get the 99, please do some really close up detailed shots of that scope and it's mount. Especially the adjusters. I may not like scopes but old things like this fascinate the dickens outa me.

Joe

Joe, the sight mount is quite ingenious. There are the front and rear mounts that control windage and elevation. The scope actually sets on the two mounts attached to a bar and rings that is designed to apply pressure to the two mounts to hold the scope in place. The bar that the rings are attached to has been buggered up and does not supply pressure to the front windage mount any more.

Here is the messed up part, the curved steel tongue should be flat/straight and able to bow a bit to supply pressure to the front mount a set screw should be used to adjust the pressure. It is missing but as you can see someone adjusted it all the way and deformed the "Spring" part of the mount.




The rear part of the bar has a spring loaded plunger that supplies pressure to the rear elevation mount.






Hope that explanation is at least somewhat understandable?

[J Miller]

Scott,

Yes I understand the workings of it. I agree, it was an ingenious design. Too bad it's been bubba'd so bad.

Joe

[kimwcook]

Geez, Salvo, really sorry to hear that. But, luckily the seller will take it back. The problems should of been disclosed when listed.

[salvo]

It is disappointing, I have never had to return a firearm before until this month. I bought a Charter Arms Bulldog Pug in .44 Special earlier this month, after getting it home I inspected the bore and noticed the chambers in the cylinder did not line up with the bore, the face of the cylinder looked like a crescent moon through the bore!
I guess I have been very lucky up until recently and I have been able to get a refund also, better to look at the bright side.

[LeverBob]

Update!
Well as they say if it was not for bad luck I would have no luck at all!
I received the 99 last Friday, the scope mount is beyond repair unfortunately, so the first thing I did was remove it and contemplate my options, I really wanted to just get a Marbles tang sight and plug the D&T holes.
This was the surprise I found after removing the rear sight base.



A little bit of cleaning removed paint that was used to cover up an attempt to remove some type of engraving on the base of the finger lever and finger lever.




Needles to say the welding and D&T job was enough for me. I have been trying to contact the seller since Friday and was finally able to talk to him today. He will take it back, thank goodness, but with the holidays and his hunting season it's going to be a while.

LeverBob, I doubt you would want this but if you do I have $519.00 in the gun and shipping.
Not to mention in addition new .300 Savage dies, factory crimp die and about 400 once fired brass is on the way from two other purchases.
I will also lose the $50.00 transfer fee/background check.
This is what I get for not waiting on a Savage to come up for sale here on the classifieds

I sooo sorry Sensei...no I wouldn't be interested. Hold on to the reloading stuff. One of us will be able to use it in the near future. I do believe the seller is an honest man & didn't know the true condition.

By the way...I would like to work out with you & your guys anytime. Trying to get to the Speakman mixup this next year in Vegas. I believe he holds it in June or July.

Five Swords to you my Kenpo brother...

LB

[salvo]

It would be an honor, Professor!
I have been to the Speakman camp 4 times and it has always been excellent, have not been for quite a few years though.
I'll PM you LeverBob

[Charles]

That steel finger on the mount can be fixed and the mount placed back in service. No..I am not raising my hand to do it. it would take making a jig/fixture of some kind to hold the piece and making a punch to move that metal back straight. Perhaps a clamp can be ground to fit both sides of the piece and the finger pressured back into shape. Probably an easier way to do it, but it doesn't look like it is beyond rapair. A finger of metal that is bent and not straight is not the kiss of death. Must be a number of way to fix that.

[Lefty Dude]

That Scope & Mounts were the Cadillac of the day. Very expensive at the time. That B&L glass is equal to Zeiss & the top German Lens.

B&L was the top line of Scopes, Bushnell was the bottom end.

You will have a very classic Rifle, buy it with out hesitation. Or tell me where to go, I'll take it.

[salvo]

Lefty Dude, I bought the rifle but will be returning it because of the welding to the receiver. It is still in my possession. If you would like it I paid $499.00 plus $20.00 shipping. I could easily ship it to you for the same cost $519.00.
Please let me know ASAP.

[chris 3755]

HI: New member on this forum. I have two B&L scopes and mounts such as those pictured. As the gun in question is being returned I will simply add this as a bit of history. My first B&L scope was a Balfor 4 fixed four power and it had the plunger mounting rings pictured. It sometimes would jump loose under recoil and I purchased a Balvar 2-1/2 to 8 variable scope with improved clamp mounts. The clamp mount rings had a small stud projecting under the scope and a spring metal bar slipped under each mount base and was locked in place with a large locknut. It was impossible to jump loose as it was locked in place and held under spring tension. I replaced the plunger rings on my other scope and have used them ever since. I can switch scopes and both are zeroed by the bases so neither ever loses zero. I purchased the 4 power in 62 or 63 for about fifty dollars and the rings and bases were abount 25. The variable was around eighty and that was real pricy back then. They were some of the most expensive scopes available at that time since we didn't see many imports.
Chris

[salvo]

Great info Chris, thanks! And welcome to Leverguns.
Have you seen any of the improved clamp mounts recently?

[chris 3755]

Scott: I sent you a note on ring set, let me know if you got it OK. Chris

[CordWood]

Salvo, I will keep check on this thread. I just bought a 99 in the neighborhood of the one you got, in the 300 Savage. If you decide to move the die, brass, etc., I would be interested.
The one I got, while not a safe queen, was in nice shape. NO extra holes, wood in good shape, great bore, etc. I may take it to the range tomorrow.
Butch