Should I turn my Marlin into a .30-30 AI?

[nralover]

What are the ballistic benefits of the .30-30 Ackley Improved over a standard .30 WCF? I have several Marlins and I was considering rechambering one of them. Is the increase in energy and velocity substantial? Also, what kind of cost am I looking at just to do the work on the rifle? Does it pose a danger to the rifle, or will the 336 action easily handle it?

[edsguns]

If this link does not open, simply send me a message and I'll cut and paste it to send it to you. I think you have a GREAT idea. A 30/30 AI or maybe a .307 Winchester would be a significant improvement for you. Good Luck!!


http://www.chuckhawks.com/subscribers/w ... ackley.htm

[Don McDowell]

You can get around 150-200 fps over the 30-30, by going the Ackley route. The 150's will give more speed without pushing things hard , than will the 170's. Basically you'll end up with what the 307 should of been in the first place.
Depending on costs in your area, but the rechamber should only be around 100, they don't need to pull the barrel and do the set back and the like, just run the reamer up the snout and it's done.
I got my dies from Hornady on a close out sale, for 30$

If you decide to do this . Pick the rifle you have in mind, wring it out with slow for the 30-30 powders, Rx15, varget, H414 etc. Then when you get the gun back you can add about 2 grs of powder over what you had before and go to work.

[Tycer]

I decided not to. 100-200fps did not seem worth it for me.
I'll never use a 30-30 for animals larger than deer or black bear, or for shots outside 200 yds and it is good medicine for that without changing anything.

[TedH]

I rechambered my Marlin 30TK myself. Not difficult at all. I bought a reamer from Midway and resold it on Ebay when I was done with it. In fact, a fellow forum member bought it.

Without pushing things to the extreme, I get 2500 fps with 150 gr. Speers and RL-15. About 150 fps more than my best load before I rechambered it. I saw no discernable change in accuracy from the reaming. As to whether or not it's worth it, is a matter of opinion. To me it was. Not only do I have more velocity and longer case life, I have something not everybody else does. The cartridges are just plain cool looking too.

[Rusty]

Ted could you explain the case life issue and maybe post pictures of the two cases?

Thanks,
Rusty <><

[gcs]

If your gun will shoot them, try the Leverevolutions, you'll get a nice bump up in performance without doing a thing.

[TedH]

Ted could you explain the case life issue and maybe post pictures of the two cases?

Thanks,
Rusty <><

They claim you get longer case life because the Improved cases have less body taper and sharper shoulder which reduce case stretching and therefore require less trimming. I don't have a picture of the standard 30-30 right now to put them side by side, but here's one of the Improved cartridge.

[Last Spike]

Sam Fadala goes into some detail about the 30-30 AI in his book "Winchester's 30-30, Model 94".

Some points he made:

1) One can still use regular 30-30 factory or handloaded ammunition in these - just note that you'll then have brass fireformed for the 30-30 AI.

2) If your rifle is accurate with regular 30-30 ammo, it will still be accurate with 30-30 AI handloads.

3) The ballistic improvement is not that great - no different than the 30-30 when one uses recipes from the various handloading manuals.

4) No significantly increased power.

5) As per P.O. Ackley, it can be handloaded relatively hot and still extracts easily.

6) Per Fadala, one can get the same velocities from ordinary handloads from various reloading manuals. Mind you, there have been changes in the reloading manuals since Sam wrote this book back in 1986.

7)The advantages Sam felt the 30-30 AI had include: reloading ease(not over compressing powder granules resulting in broken granules), less neck stretch (not having to trim case length back as often), improved case life. increased muzzle velocity (depending on the rifle), more potent charges ( in some rifles), possibly better accuracy with the 30-30 AI over the 30-30, possibly reduced bolt thrust (easier extraction).

If you have a chance to pick up a copy of Sam's book, it is an excellent read on the Winchester 94 and 30-30.

[JReed]

Paco covered it in this article http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/3030again.htm

He has nothing but good things to say. If I had a 30-30 I would deffinitely think of trying it myself.

[J Miller]

This is not an argument but I've been shooting and reloading the 30-30 for almost 40 years now.

I'm still using cases I bought as factory ammo back in the mid 1960s. Some of them have 15 + loads on them. All of them have been fired in numerous 30-30s of various vintages in various conditions of wear.
All of them are full length resized every time they are loaded. I quit neck sizing them decades ago.

There have been zero case head separations or body splits. And I can't remember the last time I had a case fail.

I'd just like to have someone clarify what I'm doing wrong to make my cases last like they do.


It's not an argument, but I don't buy the short case life, need to trim excessively, etc statements for the 30-30. Been loading them too long.

Joe

[TedH]

Ted could you explain the case life issue and maybe post pictures of the two cases?

Thanks,
Rusty <><

Rusty,

Here's another photo with the 30-30 and the Ackley version together.





J Miller,

I have yet to trim any of my Ackley cases and some of them have been loaded 6 times. They take very little sizing when reloading. I think the case life issue is not a big deal with the 30-30 because, as you stated, case life with the standard 30-30 can be quite good when handled properly. I believe it becomes more of an issue with higher pressure rounds. I have a 375 H&H that will let me load new brass 3 times before I start getting case head separations. Those are long tapered cases, and I bet there would be a dramatic improvement in case life if I rechambered it to the AI version.

[shawn_c992001]

I have two AI guns a 25-06 on a Remington 700 from Remington's Custom Shop and a 30-06 that I built on a Mauser 98 action. Case life has been great with both rifles. I don't see any differance in accuracy, but there is an increase in velocity. About 150-200 fps. The 25-06 is the one that is the higher in velocity yield.

[marlinman93]

I used to own a 336 in .30-30AI, and still regret selling it. It's a great choice for a rechamber, as it can still shoot .regular .30-30 in a pinch, although accuracy will be off a bit. The perfrmance and case life are cheap bonuses, considering there's nothing you could do to a .30-30 that would improve it for so little money.

[BenT]

The 30-30 holds 44.5 grains of water. The 30-30 AI holds 46.63 grains of water. The 307 win holds 56.69 grains of water. I believe the 308 MX is around 51 grains.

This just gives you reference on much more capacity your adding. But the advantage is less bolt thrust with the straight wall case. Thus you can load a little hotter.

But the cost of dies seem to hold me back from doing this conversion. I don't know the specs on the 308 mx case. But if I was going to spend money on reaming. I might just think about reaming it to 308mx.

[tman]

+2 for the leverevolutions. alls you need to do is buy them.

[TedH]

[quote="BenT"]


But the cost of dies seem to hold me back from doing this conversion. quote]



Midway has LEE 30-30 Ackley dies for $28.99. Don't let that hold you back!

[Swampman]

I don't feel that any of the AI calibers are worth the cost of conversion. They may have been years ago.

[Ben_Rumson]

LeverRevolutions in the 30-30 AI

[Griff]

It's a conversion I have often thought of doing, but I just can't bring myself to permanently alter one of my Winchesters.

[Marlin .35]

I think that with the introduction of the .308MX in the Marlin lever action, the cost of conversion and dies and trouble make this the easier way to go, and with more power!!! Art

[Don McDowell]

You take the special burn rate powder and the gummybear tipped bullet away from the mx , and you're lucky to do what some ol outdated good for nuthin ackley conversion does with ease.

Buy a chronagraph folks.

[BenT]

Like Ted says if you can get ackley dies at that price don't let that hold you back.

[azoil]

You take the special burn rate powder and the gummybear tipped bullet away from the mx , and you're lucky to do what some ol outdated good for nuthin ackley conversion does with ease.

Buy a chronagraph folks.

I agree Don,
I would like to see an apples to apples comparison between the AI and the MX rounds with flat nosed bullets.

[Don McDowell]

Dave looking at data available from Hogdons, and what I've seen from Hornady themselves. max loads in the mx will almost tie what I've gotten easily from the Ai and 150's.Alot of what I have done with 150's in th ai will go well past 2600. 170's in the mx will edge out by around 50 fps anything I've ever wound up with . Although I have been intending to get back to the h414 and 170's, there was some reall possibitities there.

Bottom line if you don't reload and trust 1 company to manufacture the special ammo with proprietary powders the mx is allright. If you reload the mx don't do as well as the ai, which doesn't depend on limited availablitly of things.

[azoil]

Alot of what I have done with 150's in th ai will go well past 2600.

That is impressive and seems to me quite an increase over the factory 30-30. That puts it right in the same ballpark with the MX and lots of bullet choices.
Don, have you don any testing with the 130 gr. Speer in the AI?

[azoil]

Bottom line if you don't reload and trust 1 company to manufacture the special ammo with proprietary powders the mx is allright. If you reload the mx don't do as well as the ai, which doesn't depend on limited availablitly of things.

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

Oh, the MX can't be bought without the cross bolt wart either.......

[Don McDowell]

No I've not messed with anything lighter than the 150's except for some 110's and some 22/30 sabots.