OT-Shot a Mountain Lion with a 22.

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:37 am

A friend of mine from church was telling me a story about a hunting partner of his. The friend has a ranch and was driving to a tank with a 22 to shoot some frogs for dinner. He saw a Mountain Lion in an over hanging tree stalking one of his Herefords getting a drink. He pulled up put out his rifle and shot it. He said it took 9 shots to kill it. I asked him if he thought he would have shot it with that 22 if he was on foot and not in the truck. He said he didn't know. Would you?

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:41 am

Might have ended the other way had he been on foot!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:33 am

Unless my life depended on it, I would not have shot a Mountain lion with a .22 at all. Truck or no truck. I would have scared it off, that's about all.

Joe

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:41 am

Cows aren't bringing a lot of money right now; back when this happened that breeding cow was worth about 1000 to 1200 dollars. It's a hard call. If you scare him away that doesn't keep him from coming back later and getting more of your herd.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:47 am

Wow, this is a tough call. I am a horse rancher, but can understand a cattle ranchers point of view. I guess I would have to try and eliminate the threat to my stock and try and kill the cat with whatever I had in hand. Being a stock raiser,... doing such is just part of the job, imo.

cas · Post by **cas** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:51 am

Armed or not, scaring it "away" you run the risk of scaring it "to' instead.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:53 am

Yeah sure I would, it had to go and thats that. I may of tried for the ear hole though!

Nath.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:00 am

I wouldn't of shot it on foot with a 22 unless I had no other choice. But, I'd of pulled my handgun if I was forced. I would of tried to scare it off and return with an appropriate tool.

DarryH · Post by **DarryH** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:22 am

Farmers and Ranchers often have to make do with what they have at hand. If I thought that cat was a threat to my animals, I'd have shot it too. I also would have been very grateful for the protection of that truck cab.
Good job.

Good Shootin!!
DarryH
Nebraska

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:27 am

Years ago, they put out some of thos specialty, soft cover, magazine sized books on .22's. There was at least one article about shooting cats that were treed with a .22 to prevent damage to the hide. In another, a story is related about an old sourdough trapper who comes accros some wolves making their way towards his horses. He kills several with a .22 pistol. So as to the question, dependig on range, if I could get a head shot yes.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:31 am

yes, a full magazine of ammo in my 22 rifle and some distance I think you would be ok.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:35 am

Heck, dang near anyting with a .22 is doable. They've even killed an elephant with a .22 but for a mountain lion, I'd say it would be a dead-last choice. What if the guy hadn't killed it with his 9-shots? Could have put himself in jeopardy even if he was in a truck -- but then, sometimes ya just gotta do what cha gotta do.

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:00 am

rangerider7 wrote:A friend of mine from church was telling me a story about a hunting partner of his. The friend has a ranch and was driving to a tank with a 22 to shoot some frogs for dinner. He saw a Mountain Lion in an over hanging tree stalking one of his Herefords getting a drink. He pulled up put out his rifle and shot it. He said it took 9 shots to kill it. I asked him if he thought he would have shot it with that 22 if he was on foot and not in the truck. He said he didn't know. Would you?

In a heartbeat. I'm always of the opinion that when dealing with something that can stalk me that I would much rather be on the attach then being attached. Mountain Lions and Livestock don't mix.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:30 am

rangerider7 wrote:Cows aren't bringing a lot of money right now; back when this happened that breeding cow was worth about 1000 to 1200 dollars. It's a hard call. If you scare him away that doesn't keep him from coming back later and getting more of your herd.

Absolutely true, but by then I'd of come back with my Win 94 30 WCF and would have had no problems taking him.

Joe

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:12 pm

It needed doing, so he did it.

Coming back later with more gun, only to find a dead cow would be a poor solution.....

Something about barn doors and horses comes to mind.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:35 pm

Coming back later and finding the CAT could also be problematic...

Where was this guy's SIXGUN...?

The first mountain lion I killed was with a 7 1/2" Colt SAA in .357 Mag. One shot to the head, from below the treed cat. He sprang off the limb, and was DRT on the ground.

Arminius · Post by **Arminius** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:59 pm

An Animal deserves to be shot cleanly.

.22 on a Lion is butchering.

It´s untehic. Apart from a slow death, he risked an even slower death of the animal, if he couldn´t fire several times.

The ONLY justification would be in Self Defense or Defense of another Human Being!

Hermann

P.S.: if hunting with a .22, get a Back up!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:04 pm

There is nothing man can do to a cat while hunting that a cat does not daily inflict on other animals, including man, if given a chance. So, Mr Disney

, grow up. As a matter of fact, I will opine that the fella had a God given obligation to protect another animal that was in his charge.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:43 pm

Arminius wrote:An Animal deserves to be shot cleanly.

.22 on a Lion is butchering.

It´s untehic. Apart from a slow death, he risked an even slower death of the animal, if he couldn´t fire several times.

The ONLY justification would be in Self Defense or Defense of another Human Being!

Hermann

P.S.: if hunting with a .22, get a Back up!

Say, are you an English guy? Sure sound like one!

Nath

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:47 pm

I have taken lions doing ADC work a 22 mag is my choice up close if Iam not sure of what I might run into or distance shots I use a 30-30. on stock killing predators you better take your opportunity at the time you dont get a second chance and can loose more stock. Everybody try's for a clean kill but taking the animal out of action is what counts. A wildlife expert told me that predators that bother people and stock are missing a couple of trace mineral elements in their system copper and lead. danny

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:56 pm

I might not have put it quite the way Blaine did, but i pretty well agree with him.

If it were my livestock, I'd have tried to make a head shot before the cat started moving. Mountain lion are not as big or as tough as Lion, tigers or even Jaguars. Lots of people who hunt mountain lion with dogs use .22 LR or .22 WMR pistols or revolvers to dispatch treed cats, simply because it is easier running through the brush and climbing hillsides with a six-gun than with a rifle.

Yep, if it were me and my Marlin Golden Model 39-A in the truck watching a cat stalk my ccow, I'd have shot until the cat was finished, reloading if 15 shots didn't do the trick. Had I been afoot, I'd not have used the rifle, I'd have tried shooting the cat out of the tree with my belt-gun, which would not have been a .22 of any sort.

Arminius, this was not a hunting situation. This was a defense of livestock from a predator. Hunting ethics do not come into play here. I'm just glad the man was able to finish the cat rather than allowing it to escape and possibly become a danger to people as well as livestock.

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:33 pm

The first thing that would enter my mind is that the cat has "issues". I grew up in Mo, and lived quite a few years in Freedom. In all the time I've pounded brush throughout my life, I've never seen a cat in the wild except for the occasional stray house cat. I would think that a cat which was "normal" would have skedaddled at the first sign of the PU. So the answer is "yes" with out a doubt. Better to take it out now than allow it to get to a human who is unarmed, or stalk your kids or grandkids in the evening by the house.

Ed

gunslinger598 · Post by **gunslinger598** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:51 pm

I'd a shot it, for sure.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:03 pm

Any time, any where with what ever I have on hand at the time. There are no rules when it comes to protecting livestock. Chickens, goats, cows, or horses are all raised as a livelihood.
Foxes, yotes, wolves, cats big and small should be eliminated ASAP. The first chance you see them might be the only chance you see them.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:12 pm

22 wouldn't have been my first choice, but when it comes to protecting your way of life, you use what you got to take care of the situation at the moment. Going back for another gun isn't an option in this case. Making a "clean" kill would be nice, but didn't happen this time.
I do have a friend that intentionally ran down and shot a cougar with his Ruger Bearcat. I told him he'ld really ought to move up in horse power for his belt gun and get a 32H&R.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:36 pm

When we hunted them in Idaho lots of folks used a 22 or a 22 mag. Of course that was shooting a cat that had been treed by hounds and there was less danger to the humans with the dogs on the scene. A 22 mag through the lungs kills quicker than you might think.

Birdman · Post by **Birdman** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:55 pm

I believe I would have taken the shot (shots) to protect my property. It is a beaytiful animal, and a killing machine. If I had a heard I would not be serving it my beef. If he didn't take the shot now, he'll have more dead cattle before he gets another shot. If he ever gets another shot.

Birdman · Post by **Birdman** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:58 pm

Let me do my editing now. I'l rather spell that as a herd, not heard. I don't want everyone laughing at a Central Illinois boy not spelling herd rite. ( I mean right.)

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:42 pm

BigSky56 wrote: A wildlife expert told me that predators that bother people and stock are missing a couple of trace mineral elements in their system copper and lead. danny

there ya go.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:44 pm

it did the job, and to heck with ethics for predators

piller · Post by **piller** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:20 am

Two months back, a Mountain Lion attacked a friend's horse over near Ferris, TX. If I see a Mountain Lion someplace that is on private property and it seems to be stalking domestic livestock, I'll use anything that I can to try to nail it to the barn door.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:53 am

I won't second guess him at all on this. You do what needs to be done with the tool you have.

That said, that's why Ruger came out with the Ranch rifle.

Just a little overkill for frogs, but as this example shows, ya never know what might turn up. I bet 10 rounds of 55gr soft points at 3000 fps would even make Arminius happy. Maybe!

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:19 am

Yep I would have done it, but this does bring up a good point on why it is always NICE/IMPORTANT to have a good woods pistol that is handy. My .357 or .45 ACP either one would group good enough at 50 yards to have taken that cat!

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:01 am

Tough call??? Distance from myself to the cat might be the deciding factor.If I truly felt confident and close enough that I could make a head shot (yes) If it was a ways and I couldnt I would shoot off a couple rounds and either scare the Cat or the Cow out of that area.then get the proper weapon! Mine might not be the best choice???

Probably though truthfully, living where there are known mountain Lions and Bears I would not be carrying only a .22

(maybe .243) but if I didnt have the .22 sidearm I guess I wouldnt have much frog left.

Either case with one being a .22,(pistol or rifle) I would have a powerful enough backup gun in the other!

HATCHETTJACK · Post by **HATCHETTJACK** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:55 am

i would have climbed the tree and kilt him with my bowie knife

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:13 am

rangerider7 wrote:A friend of mine from church was telling me a story about a hunting partner of his. The friend has a ranch and was driving to a tank with a 22 to shoot some frogs for dinner. He saw a Mountain Lion in an over hanging tree stalking one of his Herefords getting a drink. He pulled up put out his rifle and shot it. He said it took 9 shots to kill it. I asked him if he thought he would have shot it with that 22 if he was on foot and not in the truck. He said he didn't know. Would you?

Depends on distance, shot angle, what knives I've got, if I can find a big darn club, if I have a dog with me, and how far I am from help or whether or not folks know where I am.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:14 am

cas wrote:Armed or not, scaring it "away" you run the risk of scaring it "to' instead.

Ditto.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:16 am

Modoc ED wrote:Heck, dang near anyting with a .22 is doable. They've even killed an elephant with a .22 .......

They who? Where? I'd like to read about that one!

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:21 am

Arminius wrote:An Animal deserves to be shot cleanly.

.22 on a Lion is butchering.

It´s untehic. Apart from a slow death, he risked an even slower death of the animal, if he couldn´t fire several times.

The ONLY justification would be in Self Defense or Defense of another Human Being!

Hermann

P.S.: if hunting with a .22, get a Back up!

That answer is about as good as telling a woman to just get raped until the cops show up. This is a person's livelihood and safety. If a lion is using that waterhole, he could very well ambush someone while they're feeding hay or scattering salt. Or his wife while she's putting out cat food or getting the mail. With an apex predator like a lion of wolf, if you have any means at all to kill them in this type of scenario, you should do it.
That said, carry a bigger gun. If you want to shoot your .22, fine. Just carry a bigger gun as well.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:28 am

Yup, I have to agree,... I pack horse in a mountain range chock full of black bear. And having one come into camp for a snack really stays at the forefront of my thoughts.

But "CATS",... they are a very dangerous critter to me. When every I am slowly pushing a horse through some thick cover, with heavy pine, sometimes the hair on the back of my neck stands up. Being the mouse in a big cat's game doesn't make me sit easy. It's not that a cat would probably want to take on a human,... but when you are part of a horse, I am sure they don't realize it.

Once I had a black panther stalking me/horse. Really was neat to see one in the wild. I had read about jaguars coming up from Mexico to this mountain range, but a panther was a rare treat. All I did was let it know there was a human on the horses back and it disappeared faster than it appeared.

Do the words "black flash of lightening" get the meaning across to anyone?

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:28 pm

That black panther was probably a melanistic jaguar. Mountain lions don't come in black according to zoologist. If the eyes are yellow that is a jaguar. I guess it could have been a black panther that escaped from captivity.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:48 pm

I remember this issue from a Lassy episode - only it was a bobcat and it was Timmy's friend.

Timmy's Dad told him that it was wrong to shoot the bobcat with the .22 - that they could have been hurt by the wounded bobcat and that it wasn't fair to the animal to use an underpowered rifle IIRC.

Weird what you remember...

Now, I would've shot the thing from the truck but probably not on foot - discression is the better part of valour I've heard.

The man should've had a good 44 or 45 on hip

So, did he get any frogs for dinner or did they have chinese?

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:26 pm

Travis Morgan wrote:
Modoc ED wrote:Heck, dang near anyting with a .22 is doable. They've even killed an elephant with a .22 .......
They who? Where? I'd like to read about that one!

yeah, I'd kinda like to see some documentation on that claim myself. Even if an elephant let you stick a rifle barrel in his earhole, that would still leave lots of pone and brain to penetrate.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:13 pm

A friend of mine swore by his 4" Taurus .22 LR with CCI minimag solids for jaguar. Bullet placement, bullet placement, bullet placement. That's what it's about.

Would I take such a shot? Probably, if I believed it should be take I'd do it with what I had. When out poking around with a 22 rifle I usually have a larger caliber handgun on me and if I felt the cat were in range I'd use that instead probably.

Country folk tend to have a different outlook on life and about taking on what needs to be done with what's on hand than folks from the city.

Here's a couple of articles on that general subject:

http://paulmoreland.com/2009/09/25/life-will-kill-you/

http://paulmoreland.com/2009/09/25/i-pl ... h-matches/

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:33 pm

rangerider7 wrote:That black panther was probably a melanistic jaguar. Mountain lions don't come in black according to zoologist. If the eyes are yellow that is a jaguar. I guess it could have been a black panther that escaped from captivity.

"Melanistic" what?

Never said, nor thought it was a black cougar. I've seen enough Marlin Perkin's Wild Kingdom shows to know what panther looks like,... even for the few seconds I did.

It has been awhile since reading the article on the intrusion of Mexican Jaguars into my stomping grounds, but I believe there was also a mention of the black panther as well. I'd have to do a search and confirm. Or maybe a black Jaguar? Is there such a critter?

"Yellow eyes"!!!! Nah,... didn't get that close, wouldn't get that close.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:42 pm

rangerider7 wrote:That black panther was probably a melanistic jaguar. Mountain lions don't come in black according to zoologist. If the eyes are yellow that is a jaguar. I guess it could have been a black panther that escaped from captivity.

Ok,... did a "melanistic jaguar" search and it seems that one was spotted in Northern New Mexico, I'm in southern Az.,....

http://dinets.travel.ru/blackjaguar.htm

... and the pics I saw of some "melanistic jaguar" on other pages are EXACTLY what I thought was a Panther. So, I would assume you are correct.

draperjojo · Post by **draperjojo** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:47 pm

I have taken lions doing ADC work a 22 mag is my choice up close if Iam not sure of what I might run into or distance shots I use a 30-30. on stock killing predators you better take your opportunity at the time you dont get a second chance and can loose more stock. Everybody try's for a clean kill but taking the animal out of action is what counts. A wildlife expert told me that predators that bother people and stock are missing a couple of trace mineral elements in their system copper and lead. danny

Bullseye!!

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:12 pm

That's another thing that bugs me..... who IN HELL thinks the lion will be there when they get back with a bigger gun? Chances are, if you don't look at him for 5 minutes, you won't be able tell where he went, unless you're a good tracker. Lions are rarely seen in lion country because they're so elusive. They're not gonna turn into clowns and wait for you.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:33 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:Coming back later and finding the CAT could also be problematic...

Where was this guy's SIXGUN...?

The first mountain lion I killed was with a 7 1/2" Colt SAA in .357 Mag. One shot to the head, from below the treed cat. He sprang off the limb, and was DRT on the ground.

Like I said...

A "cat" can vanish quicker'n a puff of smoke, and just as completely.

"Coming back later" might work if you bring a passel of the best lion dogs in the county, and even that is just a so-so proposition.

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:25 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:"Coming back later" might work if you bring a passel of the best lion dogs in the county, and even that is just a so-so proposition.

And most likely a danged long hard hike into the bargain.

Much better to do the job with the tool at hand that to have to work five times harder and still run the risk of not getting the job done at all.