30WCF - What's so great about it?

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:21 am

Steve, this is exactly why I feel my 25-35 that I'll will be using this yr. will be more than
adequate in the part on Penn’s woods I hunt in. 50 yrds. and beyond is a long shot.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:55 pm

I agree with Steve's analysis (a couple of replys up) ----In SE Oklahoma and the Ozark region of Arkansas- i carry a levergun , whether it be 30-30 or 45-70 (also historically a short range calibre in many's eyes)

When i draw an Elk tag in CO, i take a .300 Weatherby Mag with a variable scope. Pronghorns in NM and Wyoming -- i have a .243 (also with a variable scope ) --- Admittedly, an '06 would do fine in CO -- i use a rangefinder and absolutely will not do a shot over 350 yds --- but the mag has a bit less drop, even at 300-350

I tailor my rifle for the game and the terrain --- but i think the 30-30 is fine within the parameters it should be used

BigMuddy · Post by **BigMuddy** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:29 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Hobie wrote:What's so great about the .30 WCF? That there's nothing so bad about it...
That says alot - I guess that is the best answer so far...!

Still the best answer so far

I have two of them, each for their own reason. I have my dad's marlin. When I was a kid, and my dad bought a "deer rifle", the only question was would it be a Winchester or a Marlin?....30-30 was a given. My dad got the Marlin, and his brother the Winchester. I heard many an argument between them over who made the best choice. My dad always brought up the ease of putting a scope on his..of course the gun has never been scoped.

I got my first deer many years ago with that gun.

My second IS a Winchester, an older 1894 SRC. I have it because I like old Winchesters, and also a friend of mine..an older gentleman that I shoot with, said he did not have much good to say about anyone that did not have a Winchester 30-30. That was reason enough for me.

Last thing....What's so great about it...because it is as AMERICAN as one can get!!!!

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:32 pm

What so great about it?
If you have to ask you probably wouldn't understand anyways.
45 colt more powerful?
not with any load that even approaches sanity.
No good in Wyoming, and not big enough for an elk?
Neighbor kid would laugh in your face,and I couldn't blame him

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:35 pm

w30wcf, thanks for posting the pics of that test. Just what I was wondering and why this cartridge performs well.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:42 pm

[/quote]

"THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDIN" It works and always will!

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:42 pm

w30WCF, glad you haven't lost your sense of humor! Nice pic post of the deformed bullets.

CoSteve, Old Savage has been saying the same thing about matching terrain to the rifle since the New Millenium became the Old Millenium (I sometimes begin my questions with "Oh Ancient One, how should I blah, blah, blah")

I'm afraid I never had a previous generation to introduce me to shooting firearms so I am envious of those who got to go shooting with their fathers and grandfathers. I picked the guns I have based upon thorough review of ballistics, articles on the rifles, and commentary of those of this forum. Before I joined here, I "lurked" so long that Hobie almost wrote me a ticket for loitering but thought better of it. Nice guy, Mr. Hobie!

Seriously, I'm pretty insensitive to recoil (my girlfriend might say I'm pretty darn insensitive in general!) but I consider it a skill being able to focus through my body's reactions. In martial arts, it refered to as "being calm under the Hell of the upraised sword". Another phrase I have heard that I like is "trying to thread a needle when you know someone is going to hit you with a hammer." I'm still reletively young, and don't mind the occasional thrashing. Been doing that for a long time now, long before I discovered firearms.

Maybe we need to change our thinking about the 30WCF in isolation from the shooter who owns the rifle. Its the merger of the man and the rifle that dictates what is possible, not just the rifle.

Still, I think there are better calibers available to choose from.

-Tutt

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:52 pm

W30WCF,

I wish I was as good at researching stuff as you are. I saved those pics for my own reason.
And I wish I could get hold of some of them old 1950s bullets. That would be very interesting.

Joe

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:56 pm

there was an old saying that people who hunted with the 30wcf. didn't read gun magazines. the 30-30 was touted by winchester, when it first came out as a cartridge for grizzly. it work back then, it works today. after 104 years of field use, what more could you ask for

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:10 pm

Tutt I'll bring a 30wcf you can visit with along with the 75

Brian in FL · Post by **Brian in FL** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:42 pm

For hunting in the woods, where close in shots are the norm, there is only one cartridge I'd prefer to the .30-30 and that's the .35 Remington. That having been said, a scoped .30-30 like my Marlin 336C would be all one needed for shots out to 200 yards and further with Hornady LE ammunition. Years have not diminished its luster.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:02 pm

That would be great, Don. I would enjoy that. Maybe I can even see you on another trip to WY. One way or the other, I'm sure we are destined to meet.

-Tutt

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:31 pm

CowboyTutt wrote:I think there are better calibers available to choose from. -Tutt

That, I thought was the gist of my original post.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:48 pm

COSteve, I really liked the "Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai" and its a cult favorite. Glad we agree about the 30-30 as I'm in the minority here, but if I had the opportunity to shoot with a father or grandfather, I would feel really different about the subject. In the end, its the combination of the man and his rifle that makes for a successful hunter. I really applaud those who do well with the 30-30, but being that I'm a recent inductee to firearms (ten years), I would not choose the caliber. I know that what I just wrote will not sit well with some. I mean no disrespect. Historically, we have done very, very well with the venerable 30wcf. I'm a reletive newby to the sport and don't have the family background to influence my choices, so I tend to go with a more "scientific" approach to my choices in firearms calibers. I have moved a lot in CA so picking a rifle based upon the terrain is not really an option for me. Its more reasonable to me to download a larger, more powerful cartridge that works in multiple terrains than to make a less powerful cartridge perform beyond its reasonable envelope.

-Tutt

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:07 pm

CowboyTutt wrote:Still, I think there are better calibers available to choose from.

-Tutt

There's no "ticket" in there for you

but in the interest of the topic, define "better".

I don't believe "better" is always more, nor is it always less. "Better" is closer to ideal. I think for some folks on a budget, needing to use their deer rifle for squirrel and home defense the .357 Mag carbine might be closer to ideal or "better". For those in big bear country a hot-loaded .45-70 might be better (I'm sticking to leverguns here, just 'cause). For those who mostly shoot varmints and small game but who are only going to shoot deer in their garden from the outhouse a .32-20 might be "better". Here in the east of the Mississippi, the .30-30 (or a cartridge that performs very much like it does) comes very close to ideal. Here in VA we can do just about everything we need doing including killing big black bear or an elk that has strayed across the border from Kentucky's herd.

One thing the .30-30 will now forever be to many is old and maybe boring. It will never be new again. It will never be cutting edge again. Neither will I.

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:12 pm

I think the 30-30 is exciting.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:18 pm

Well said Hobie !!

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:28 pm

Tutt we'll get caught up with oneanother somewhere.

In the meantime on this 30wcf thing....
It's probably responsible for making alot of pretty decent cartridges obsolete. Why? Well take a look at Roosevelts flowery praise. It was the first smokeless cartridge that really worked and was available to the public. It's sizzlin for the day ballistics made shots to 200 yds and beyond as easy as could be, especially when you compare what it takes to get a 45-70 etc to that range. The slow for todays velocity combined with a soft jacketed bullet of moderate sectional density, means the bullets aren't apt to come apart in up close encounters, yet have what it takes to penetrate nearly thru large critters (like the elk in the picture) leaving a very good wound channel even at considerable distances. In the early 1900's there was a huge battle waged in one of the sporting magazines between 2 government hunters on which was better for culling elk the 30 wcf or the 30US. That should speak volumes of the usefullness of both cartridges.
We always see the detractors try to use the "rainbow" trajectory and great bullet drop. Well yeah but its still reasonable to make a dead center hold to 200 yds , and truth be told the majority of hunters draggin scope sighted "better" rifles probably don't have any business shooting that far. 200 yds is a pretty fair distance to be pokin away with any firearm, and while 300 is doable there's dang few folks really know just how far 300 yds is unless they got a range finder.
Look closely at Mr. Korts expansion pictures for a real good idea of what happens at various distances.
Also take into consideration the rifles. The sleek handiness of the winchester 94, and the Marlins of the day were not the clunky chunky, poorly fit and balanced stinkin things they are today. Combine that with the typical 7 rounds in the magazine and still maintain good balance. The rugged iron sights meant you didn't have to worry about sighting in all the time like we do now with scope sighted rifles.
It was all the rage of gun writers to trash the cartridge as best they could, and folks that didn't/don't know anybetter because they have no experience with the cartridge swallowed the Koolaid and have really missed out on a fine cartridge.
Keep an eye out, 30-30's can be found for a couple hundred or less, pick one up spend a couple boxes of factory ammo just whackin rocks,cans etc. Betting the little cartridge will grow on you and then the first head of game that crumples to the round , you'll be a believer also.

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:22 am

[quote="Hobie] It will never be new again. It will never be cutting edge again. Neither will I. :[/quote]

me neither.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:19 am

I like the IDEA of the 30-30 but I am still having trouble getting mine to work right. I don't mean the gun, but the right load, accuracy, etc, for the bulk of my shooting. My hunting load is pretty good but not great, and my reduced loads are just ok. I'm not hitting what I shoot at like I do with .357, 22, and 35 Rem.

Some of the guys were talking about this, saying the longer bullet gets unstable at lower velocities, something to do with the twist rate.

Ok I guess I'm off topic by now, but I went shooting Sunday hoping to straighten out some of the kinks in my 30-30 shooting but it didn't work out that way.

fordwannabe · Post by **fordwannabe** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:37 am

I think Tutt may have stumbled on to something when he said he is new to the firearms thing. When I was in my mid 20's(10 years gun experience) you would not have caught me with a 30-30 any where around me. I had to have a big boomer, the 30-30 was still there but it eventually got sold off to trade up(thank God Dad bought it and kept it). When I was in my 30's(20 years gun experience) I brought it out some, because killing a deer/ hog with a bolt action at 200 yards was easy, so it was a little more of a challenge to use the 30-30. In my forties(30 years gun experience) it is a nostalgisa thing and about not getting the wee beat out of me everytime I go to the range. Yes I still have bigger(not big but bigger) bolt guns that will outshoot me everytime, but I find I have more fun and don't need as many advil, shooting my levers( I also get a little choked up thinking about the guys with the same last name as me ,who used to hunt with me when I carried that 30-30). I also have retaken up(is that a phrase?) casting as a hobby so the levers are great. I will shoot 30-30's all day and not go through nearly the money or aches and pains of shooting an -o6. I also believe in the geography thing when I lived in Montana I knew the possibility for longer shot existed here in PA I can't see more than 60 yards from my stand no matter what. And my woodsmanship has improved as well as my patience I want to shoot a good shot that kills cleanly, earlier I just wanted to prove I killed the deer, truly now I don't care if I get one or not. But when I had only ten years experience man I wanted to kill one no matter what. I think I just found out I'm an old fanny burp, but I'm okay with that. Tom

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:02 am

I've had two 94 30-30's in my life, one was rebarreled before I ever shot it, and another I had for a couple of years before I gave it to Dad. Dad recently sent it home with my brother at my approval. I love the little cartridge, and love the package. Never felt undergunned with a 30-30 except when Elk hunting. My family never deer hunted, so I have no "history" with the cartridge or rifle. Dad kept a .303 #4 at the house but probably didn't shoot it once every 10 years, and that was usually at a skunk or possum etc. Mostly he used a .22, and never hunted, just shot stray dogs and varmints around the livestock. My problem with the 30-30 is that it presents little loading challenge. For some that's a bonus, but for me, I like the load development stage in my rifles, and getting to tinker with something to make it shoot well has always been fun. So I get bored with the cartridge easily. Lately I've been wanting to play with one again, but know that if I buy one it will just sit and I won't use it.

Ed

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:25 am

And on the other end of the spectrum.....
Paco Kelly - .30-30 Varmint loads
"The 30-30 spells versatility with today’s powders and bullets....all we have to do is stop thinking like the old days...with all the old ideas about brush guns and loads....this is now a 21 century cartridge!"
http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/3030varmint.htm

w30wcf

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:34 am

Don, I like to shoot at longer ranges, like 300 yards plus, as you know. Most of my shooting is target shooting although I have my hunting license and really need to pursue that new hobby. I like the M-94's but not one in 30WCF. Just not for me. I already have the 30 caliber class covered with my '42 Savage Enfield #4 Mk. 1*.

Fordwanabe, I think you have made a good analysis of the stages we go through as we get older and have been shooting a very long time. Good thinking!

Ed, how about a 30WCF Ackley Improved? Would that be interesting to you? The change in capacity is significant enough that you would most likely need to change the powders you use from the parent cartridge like I had to do with my 375 H&H Ackley.

I'm researching the idea of having a Model 88 Win converted to 416/284. Its a 284 case necked-up to 416. I need something in the 40 caliber class and its either that or a Model 95 in 405!
-Tutt

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:37 am

El Chivo wrote:I like the IDEA of the 30-30 but I am still having trouble getting mine to work right. I don't mean the gun, but the right load, accuracy, etc, for the bulk of my shooting. My hunting load is pretty good but not great, and my reduced loads are just ok. I'm not hitting what I shoot at like I do with .357, 22, and 35 Rem.

Some of the guys were talking about this, saying the longer bullet gets unstable at lower velocities, something to do with the twist rate.

Ok I guess I'm off topic by now, but I went shooting Sunday hoping to straighten out some of the kinks in my 30-30 shooting but it didn't work out that way.

El Chivo,
You're over thinking the equation. All the 30-30 needs is the 150 or 170gr factory load or an equivalent hand load. That's it.
After that it's all the shooter and practice.
In the thread about what you're going to hunt dear with many posters listed numerous rifles. By doing that you'll never become proficient with any one of them.
Use one, maybe two and you'll get to where you know them. By switching loads, and playing with each powder and bullet you'll never get it down pat.
The 30WCF was designed around a 160gr bullet. It does very well with the 150 to 170s. It's that simple. Perhaps it's too simple.

Like several posters have said, the 30WCF is not new, it's not improved, it's not complicated, it's just been perfected over it's 114 years of service. Maybe that's the problem, those folks who can't stand the 30-30 can't stand it because all the bugs have been worked out and it's good to go without any input from them.

I think that's why I like it. It fits the K.I.S.S. principle perfectly.

Joe

86er · Post by **86er** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:40 am

"P.O. Ackley recognized that something had to be done about the 30-30 to bring it from a marginal, potential wounder of game to a viable caliber for all woods hunting. His 30-30 Ackely Improved gave an additional 200-300 fps, nothing to snear at over 10 years ago when it was created. The 30-30 AI gave this rather mundane, anemic cartridge the push it needed to become reliably lethal" - An interview with Ackely, Trinidada, CO Observer-Times, 1961.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:42 am

Tutt for something in the 40 class with a bit more of a "modern" flair, might think about a BLR in 416 Taylor

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:48 am

86er wrote:"P.O. Ackley recognized that something had to be done about the 30-30 to bring it from a marginal, potential wounder of game to a viable caliber for all woods hunting. His 30-30 Ackely Improved gave an additional 200-300 fps, nothing to snear at over 10 years ago when it was created. The 30-30 AI gave this rather mundane, anemic cartridge the push it needed to become reliably lethal" - An interview with Ackely, Trinidada, CO Observer-Times, 1961.

Affordable Chronographs wrecked the Ackley and other "improoved " market. Ackley hisself also stated the purpose of his "improoved" cartridges was so the average guy with not alot of money or guns could go down to the local gunsmith , get a quick and cheap rechamber job,and get a bit more velocity, yet still be able to fire factory ammunition. Remember he AI'ld about everything that was in existance at the time.
Yup you can get a couple hundred fps more with 150's, but not so much with the 170's.
I use and like both the 30-30 and the ai.
You ought to try going out and getting one sometime so you can speak from experience instead of regurgitating stuff someone else has wriiten

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:10 am

One more point to ponder. The only other smokeless cartridge to have been in continuous production with new rifles available from several manufacturers every year, is the 7x57 mauser.
Speaks volumes about both cartridges I should think.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:16 pm

.30 WCF was the greatest smokeless powder cartridge ever invented. It was so magnificent that Winchester had John Browning design a completely new rifle for it! JB's initial design was a double rifle on the order of Holland & Holland, James Rigby or George Gibbs. However he was persuaded that Winchester wanted a levergun so we have what we have.

The Winchester combination of rifle & cartridge worked well until the 1980's when it was found that deer had evolved Kevlar skin. The previously powerful .30-30 now would bounce off or else not penetrate far enough to do real damage, resulting in millions of wounded deer showing up at veterinary clinics all over the midwest.

Because of evolution it now takes something on the power level of the 7mm Remington Magnum to reliably anchor a deer in less that 4 shots. The amazing power of nature is continuing. Reports are being received of average sized Whitetail Deer taking multiple hits from .450 Nitro Express and still getting away. One hunter reported blowing a deer into two pieces and both halves escaped!

Where this will all end, no one knows. One thing for sure, the .30-30 is now a thing of the past, probably no longer any good for cirtters much larger than field mice.

Speaking of which .. at the dump we were shooting bottles and a field mouse ran out from under a box. My friend Tom shot it with his K-22 S&W using Stingers and the mouse charged him, dragging it's innards. Teeth bared, growling, here it came! It was terrifying. I fired 2 shots with my .475 Linebaugh and missed both, but the dirt thrown up by the near misses slowed it down enough for Tom to hit it 2 more times. The headshot finished it.

Yep .. evolution ... it'll get ya!

For a nostalgic look at the .30-30 you might want to read this:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _94765140/

86er · Post by **86er** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:26 pm

take it easy Don! I have a 30-30 that I like and I've shot a lot of stuff with it. I just thought we'd have a little fun with this post.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:47 pm

What's so great about the 30 WCF? In short, its the "Goldilocks cartridge". Not too much, not too little - just right.

But it ain't no 30-40....

ceb · Post by **ceb** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:03 pm

JimT,

That was great!!

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:29 pm

Boy...that mouse must have been a cross between a mouse and an alien...where's Sigourney Weaver when you need her.

Ed

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:30 pm

OKay, you guys have bashed my favored cartridge for 4+ pages... with a few sane comments thrown in. I only have one thing to ask;

If you don't think so much of the .30-30, would you be willing to stand downrange @ 200 yards and absorb any punishment I care to mete out with my Winchester 94 in .30-30?

Is it perfect? No. Is it the most powerful? Of course not. Is it even adequate? The answer for that lies in each of us individually, it's factory loadings of a 150 grain FP @ 2200fps is quite sufficient for the average hunting scenario. Sometime in the 1940's the .30WCF overtook the .44-40 as the leading taker of deer in this country. No single cartridge has approached the numbers of deer taken since. For it to have sold in excess of 7 million copies, the Winchester 94 is clearly a success, and the .30WCF is the main reason why. Yes, it's been chambered in other cartridges... but nothing close to the overwhelming majority the .30-30 represents.

Joe, I hope you know that I respect your expertise and knowledge... but there's no way a .45Colt is the ballistic equivalent of the .30-30. I don't believe there's any bullet in the .45 Colt case will have the trajectory of the .30-30. At any given range, yes, you can load up a .45 Colt to get there, meeting, or even exceeding the energy of the .30-30. However, you give up something in return, ie.; in order to get your 250 grain .45Colt bullet to 175 yards, you're going to give up some bullet rise over the line of sight to the .30-30.

I have a load that I have as a 150 zero, with less than 3" of rise or drop from the muzzle to 175 yards. What MV would it take for a 250 grain .45 bullet to attain that same trajectory? @2000fps your .45 Colt will be 3" above the line of sight @ 75 yards and will have dropped to 2.9" at 175 with the same 150 zero as my .30-30. whereas my .30-30 will only have risien 2.2" above the line of sight @ 75 yards, and will still be within 2.1" @ 175yards. In addition, your .45 Colt will leave the muzzle with with almost 2023ft/lbs of energy, but will have dropped to 1,034 @ 175 yards; and my .30-30 will post numbers of 1606 at the muzzle and 1084 @ 175 yards... the equal point being at around at that 150 zero. So while for the short range your .45 Colt has very impressive energy numbers, you pay for those in felt recoil. But, the above begs the question of whether 2000 fps is really feasible out of a Winchester 94 in .45Colt.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:39 pm

Good points Griff. Having actually used hot loaded 45 colt and the 30-30 on things other than paper and computer programs....... I can tell you with no hesitation you can't get a 45 colt bullet to 250 yds without adding alot of elevation, not necessary with the 30-30. As far as killing power goes I know the 45 colt, and it ain't no 30-30.

rafter-7 · Post by **rafter-7** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:46 pm

Now Griff;

I know we are both big enough to agree to disagree..... Sooooo now lets just leave the gate open to the pasture tonight and let this thread and that cal. just go over the hill and die next to the creek

; : "" >" dang I can't find the hat in my hand ICON. gota show a little respect

^
7

just kidding ... kind of he he he

its my b-day today and it rained so I get a get out of jail free card!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:49 pm

rafter-7 wrote:Now Griff;

I know we are both big enough to agree to disagree..... Sooooo now lets just leave the gate open to the pasture tonight and let this thread and that cal. just go over the hill and die next to the creek

; : "" >" dang I can't find the hat in my hand ICON. show a little respect

^
7

just kidding ... kind of he he he

Hey it ain't the ONLY cartridge I own... just the one I like the best. Nobody else need like it... I ain't criticizing yer choice... and sorta feel deserving of the same.... Along with the well over 7 million other 30-30 owners out here!

rafter-7 · Post by **rafter-7** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:51 pm

Are we havin fun yet 86er.... I am

^
7

oh griff I had a good come back for that one but I am extream restraint @ this time

tman · Post by **tman** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:14 pm

if i was going on a brown bear hunt, i probabally choice my .356, 348, 444 or the 45-70. if, all i had was a 30wcf. model 94 using 170gr. core-locks, I'D GO GREAT BEAR HUNTING.

nralover · Post by **nralover** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:58 pm

http://www.gunblast.com/30WCF.htm

I couldn't say it better than that...

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:11 pm

Free country here - wanna use the 30-30, use it. Don't want to use it, don't. Never shot anything with mine but it I was going to I would have to use my 25-35 instead - more intrigued by it. Then the 30-30, but it is all about how you feel about it.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:21 pm

Hey Joe, us guys named Joe can sure start some fun threads can't we?
Whooo Hoooo

Joe

rafter-7 · Post by **rafter-7** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:26 pm

I would have to use my 25-35 instead - more intrigued by it. [/quote]

you let them have it O S

^
7

rafter-7 · Post by **rafter-7** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:34 pm

rafter-7 wrote:Now Griff;

I know we are both big enough to agree to disagree..... Sooooo now lets just leave the gate open to the pasture tonight and let this thread and that cal. just go over the hill and die next to the creek

; : "" >" dang I can't find the hat in my hand ICON. gota show a little respect

^
7

just kidding ... kind of he he he

its my b-day today and it rained so I get a get out of jail free card!

OK Do I half to Quote myself Here???

Just take a 38/55 and just shoot this thread!!!!!

Arjunky said its ok to post this

^
7

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:39 pm

y'all been into the wacky tabaky again?

a bunch a nuts ya are.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:47 pm

When it came out, the .30-30 was lauded as the new "super magnum" of it's day; when the .357 came out, shooters were warned that they had better hold on tight, else they'd "break their hand". Both are now considered anemic by people who might shoot two game animals in their life. Those that hunt regularly know better.
What really gripes me though, is that the same idiots that put down the .30-30 will hunt big game with a stick and string or a frontstuffer!

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:01 pm

J Miller wrote:
El Chivo wrote:I like the IDEA of the 30-30 but I am still having trouble getting mine to work right. I don't mean the gun, but the right load, accuracy, etc, for the bulk of my shooting. My hunting load is pretty good but not great, and my reduced loads are just ok. I'm not hitting what I shoot at like I do with .357, 22, and 35 Rem.

Some of the guys were talking about this, saying the longer bullet gets unstable at lower velocities, something to do with the twist rate.

Ok I guess I'm off topic by now, but I went shooting Sunday hoping to straighten out some of the kinks in my 30-30 shooting but it didn't work out that way.
El Chivo,
You're over thinking the equation. All the 30-30 needs is the 150 or 170gr factory load or an equivalent hand load. That's it.
After that it's all the shooter and practice.
In the thread about what you're going to hunt dear with many posters listed numerous rifles. By doing that you'll never become proficient with any one of them.
Use one, maybe two and you'll get to where you know them. By switching loads, and playing with each powder and bullet you'll never get it down pat.
The 30WCF was designed around a 160gr bullet. It does very well with the 150 to 170s. It's that simple. Perhaps it's too simple.

Like several posters have said, the 30WCF is not new, it's not improved, it's not complicated, it's just been perfected over it's 114 years of service. Maybe that's the problem, those folks who can't stand the 30-30 can't stand it because all the bugs have been worked out and it's good to go without any input from them.

I think that's why I like it. It fits the K.I.S.S. principle perfectly.

Joe

JM, so what you're saying is just use the 30-30 for one thing, hunting loads at 2000 fps?

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:27 pm

I have shot more than two game animals in my life and I think its anemic. In fact I think it is pathetic! It don't kill stuff far away without a lot of ranging and hold over and guestimating. I need to kill stuff way out there with a minimum of calculating to confuse my feeble mind. The 30-30 just doesn't do it near as well as a herd of better LONG RANGE cartridges.

I was perusing Jack O'Connor's Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns and happened across this paragraph.
"For brush hunting of deer, I think the best combination is a rifle with a fairly short barrel that has an action capable of fast manipulation, used with a fairly heavy bullet at moderate velocity. The little Model 94 Winchester or Marlin carbines and the 30-30 cartridge are the classic combinations for this work..."

So even old Jack had a kind word for it. Soon as I start brush hunting I will drag one of my 30-30's out of the safe and go hunting.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:33 pm

El Chivo wrote:
J Miller wrote:
El Chivo wrote:I like the IDEA of the 30-30 but I am still having trouble getting mine to work right. I don't mean the gun, but the right load, accuracy, etc, for the bulk of my shooting. My hunting load is pretty good but not great, and my reduced loads are just ok. I'm not hitting what I shoot at like I do with .357, 22, and 35 Rem.

Some of the guys were talking about this, saying the longer bullet gets unstable at lower velocities, something to do with the twist rate.

Ok I guess I'm off topic by now, but I went shooting Sunday hoping to straighten out some of the kinks in my 30-30 shooting but it didn't work out that way.
El Chivo,
You're over thinking the equation. All the 30-30 needs is the 150 or 170gr factory load or an equivalent hand load. That's it.
After that it's all the shooter and practice.
In the thread about what you're going to hunt dear with many posters listed numerous rifles. By doing that you'll never become proficient with any one of them.
Use one, maybe two and you'll get to where you know them. By switching loads, and playing with each powder and bullet you'll never get it down pat.
The 30WCF was designed around a 160gr bullet. It does very well with the 150 to 170s. It's that simple. Perhaps it's too simple.

Like several posters have said, the 30WCF is not new, it's not improved, it's not complicated, it's just been perfected over it's 114 years of service. Maybe that's the problem, those folks who can't stand the 30-30 can't stand it because all the bugs have been worked out and it's good to go without any input from them.

I think that's why I like it. It fits the K.I.S.S. principle perfectly.

Joe
JM, so what you're saying is just use the 30-30 for one thing, hunting loads at 2000 fps?

Nope, I'm just saying don't over think the equation. I use mine for plinking, targets, hunting once, with the same basic load. I get to know that rifle and load. That makes it easy and simple for me.
I have played with the 110gr bullets, and the old Speer 100 gr plinkers, and even some 135gr bullets. But they require me to sight my gun in again and again and again and to me that gets tiring. So I shoot one basic load for everything.
Since I know the load, when I pick up a new to me 30-30 then all I am doing is testing the rifle, not a different load.
K.I.S.S., that's my motto.

Joe