is a 45-70 suitable for african dangerous game...big 5?

[fortyfive70]

was just wondering if i did ever save up enough to go to africa for a plains game hunt, would the 45-70 say using garrets ammo suffice to stop a charging Buff or tusker.

not sure if the gun/ammo is up to the task of DG stopper, not saying or hoping i would need it for that...

the most my 1895ss has done is a 200 pound hawg...using the 405 grain corelockt

[JimT]

Seems you need to be pointed to all the articles we have on the Leverguns website!

Begin here -- http://www.leverguns.com/articles/lupo/lupo.htm

[madman4570]

86er is the man for this one?
Myself,I might try it with Hot loaded Belt Mountain Punch Bullets!
Providing a PH like Mr. 86er was right behind me with his BIG GUN!
86er did some fantastic tests on the 45-70 with various bullet penetration on the actual big stuff.I believe the Belt Mountain Punch and North Fork bullets were the best? Good Luck!

[JimT]

Read the article I posted the link to. Look what Lupo and other have already done. Read the testimonials on Garrett's website. Your question has already been answered.

[madman4570]

86er Post subject: One Month Odyssey Part 9 The BulletsPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:38 am


This is the one I was talking about from 86er-- awesome stuff!

[fortyfive70]

both good reads and with different outcomes....concerning cast bullets

[O.S.O.K.]

And to add to what's been posted already - Brian Pearce with Handloader has been to the dark continent with his Marlin 95 45-70 and taken buff and planes game with it.

The 45-70 loaded to the 95's capability is equivalent to the old British BP big express rifles.

[dbateman]

um yes it is

[flb]

Wow! What a story, lifetime dream for a lot of us. Silly question, what would just one hunt for a buff cost? I looked at an Alaskan Moose hunt and it was $12K not counting mounting the head and all. The big Marlin is the way to go either way.

[SJPrice]

some folks just like to read the same story over and over again but written by a different author each time

[madman4570]

flb,(also fortyfive70)

You need to get a hold of 86er! on this site. He runs this huge big game hunting ranch in Texas with all type African game including a special hybrid cross between the African buffalo and the larger Asian water buffalo.His operation from everything I hear and read is a ("First class") outfit and you will have a hunt of a lifetime for MUCH LESS of the cost compared to going to Africa.He runs specials that sometimes are truly unreal such as a Buff hunt one of the guys on here grabbed for the end of this month.It went fast.Best hunting deal I have ever seen! Let 86er tell you all the details!
http://www.TARSPORTING.com
"Worldwide Hunting Adventures"
Co-Proprietor

Professional Hunters Association of South Africa. - Member

[crs]

madman 4570 -
just returned from the buffalo hunt and am tired! That ornery cow was closer to 2000 pounds than 1200 and she was hard to corner.

86er will post his report with pictures tomorrow while my wife, daughter and I are vacuum wrapping two coolers of the best looking steaks and roasts you could want to see. Maybe I should take a picture of the steaks tomorrow.

[Old Savage]

Read the story Jim Taylor recommended.

[86er]

Here's my 2 cents:

45-70 is illegal for use on African dangerous game in all countries except South Africa. That limits your use quite a bit. Cast bullets can get the job done but they are not for a "stopping rifle" for buffalo, elephant, hippo or rhino. On any of the grey animals you must use monolithic, homogenous solids or extremely hard solids with lead cores. On the black animal you are best served with a premium controlled expansion bullet for the first well placed shot. After that, the same solids that apply to the grey animals will be best. While I recently shot elephant and buffalo with a 45-70 and 45-90, I was woefully undergunned for charging elephant and marginally equiped for alert animals that were about to get shot. With that in mind, I would allow a South African safari client to shoot an undisturbed buffalo, elephant (brain shot attempt only) or hippo with a properly loaded 45-70. The client would have to agree that backup shots could be taken after the first hit and once the animal took just two steps. I would hope the client keeps shooting too. I would allow this with Punch, Northfork Solid (not cup-points) and Northfork, Kodiak, Rhino, expanding bullets all in at least 400 grains and 1800 fps to whatever velocity you could get without undue pressure, probably around 2000 fps tops. A buffalo hunt all inclusive except airfare is right now $10,275. Cast bullets start changing there sectional density and profile as soon as they hit. This is what an exanding bullet does. I've recovered tons of cast bullets in buffalo and have yet to see the alleged "stem to stern" pass throughs that are often hyped in marketing media and other forums. Most recently, a 540 gr harcast bullet turned into a 192 grain lead ball after penetrating 27" in a buffalo and not slowing it down much. A 450 gr Northfork solid on the same buff hit the left pevlic cavity and was found behind the tongue in its face. I am happy to provided discussion, evidence and references privately if you are interested. I will report facts and refrain from giving an opinion based on bias. You decide what you want to use and most likely it'll work if you apply it just right. I won't go down this path very far but a Marlin 45-70 has a few inherent risk factors when using them on dangerous game. I recently was next to a guy who opened the lever but the empty did not eject clear of the gun. He screwed around trying to get the shell out and eventually did in short order. Meanwhile I fixed the "problem" with the animal without any back up from him. I had a client once with a 50-110 that was not totally finished at the time of the hunt. In fact the conversion was working but the barrel wasnt even blued yet. He had an empty fail to clear the gun so he reached right in there a plucked it out in about a half second. I'm not saying one brand is better than the other, just giving something to think about. Regardless of what gun you take it must be Africa ready. That is, at least 200 rounds through it without a hitch, totally reliable, and sighted in just right.

[madman4570]

fortyfive70,
Go check the post on the Hunt CRS did! 86er just posted it!
CRS you did it friend,fine job! CRS,Joe,Ricky Congrads-- That is one heck of a hunt that should stick in all your minds forever!

[HEAD0001]

My hunting goal in life is to go on a lion hunt in Africa with my 1886 Wichester in 45-70. And I really want to cast my own bullets for that hunt. Not sure if I will ever get to go, but as I said it is my hunting goal.

All the reading material I can find says that the 45-70 would be enough medicine for a lion. However I personally have no experience to back that up. However if I am hunting with my 1886 for lion then I certainly hope it is enough medicine!! Tom.

[86er]

Tom - your 45-70 1886 will be great on a lion. You need to make sure you pursue a Country where it will be legal, like South Africa. Let me know when you're ready. I'll hook you up.

[Old Savage]

Joe - love to hear the unvarnished truth on this sort of thing - keep it up.

[HEAD0001]

Tom - your 45-70 1886 will be great on a lion. You need to make sure you pursue a Country where it will be legal, like South Africa. Let me know when you're ready. I'll hook you up.

I have $11,500 saved up for my hunt. And I am really looking forward to it. I have been saving for a few years, and I figure I have another year or two to save up before I can go. I also have some health issues that will probably not allow me to go. However I am working on those issues also, and hopefully I may be able to work them out.

I was really wanting to travel across the ocean on a ship. I am not sure why, but I just think that would be a great way to go. Time is no issue for me, so I am not in any hurry. I would also like to see Victoria Falls, but I am not sure if the two are compatable. But you can always hope?? Right??

Do any of the PH's you know work with the mobility challenged?? I am not in a wheel chair, but I am not far from it. Tom.

[86er]

I can accomodate mobility impaired hunters in a few of my lion concessions. Vic Falls can probably be done in the same trip. Whenever you are ready give me a shout! I think I'll go with you.

[HEAD0001]

Do you think my idea of going over on a ship is a dumb idea?? I think it would be a lot of fun. And definitely the more the merryer(spelling??). Ever since I was a kid and watched the Addams Family I wanted to go on a lion hunt. Just imagine having a "stuffed" "Kitty" in your living room!! And I have to believe that Victoria Falls is just awesome. Maybe as awesome as the Grand Canyon?? I am not sure about that, but I have been to the Grand Canyon and it is definitely awesome.

I will definitely call you if I solve my health issues. I truly believe you are a trustworthy man. Thank you, Tom.

[tman]

when trex makes a comeback, i'll be very confident to stake my life in going against him modern 45-70 loads. everything else is overkill, wasted energy and penetration.

[scr83jp]

Brockman Custom Gunsmithing modified the levergun of Vine Lupo Vince Lupo for his african safari and use of garrett cartridges

[Old Time Hunter]

I wonder if our ancestors argued about what size spear they needed for that Woolley Mamouth?

Does not a full blown + load (Ruger #1 or greater) equate to the same power as a .458 Win?

[Streetstar]

I wonder if our ancestors argued about what size spear they needed for that Woolley Mamouth?

Does not a full blown + load (Ruger #1 or greater) equate to the same power as a .458 Win?

close, but that type of load may be a sticky extracting round in a levergun. I'd hedge my bets and just buy the dang .458 Win Mag (or 460 Weatherby, 416 Rigby, etc etc) -- then i know i would be covered

I dont want to goof up a 20 thousand dollar hunt with some of the issues Mr 86er described he has seen. Whats 2 grand more for a Safari rifle anyway when the hunt costs so much?