480 Achilles leverguns

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I haven't read that in a while. Great article. Now I want a storekeeper style Colt in 476 Eley or 480 Achilles.

Probably wouldn't hurt to have a 92 or 73 short rifle into which I could thumb a few of those either.

[86er]

A few year ago Jim Taylor hunted with me and shot a Sika deer with the 480 Ar. fired from a SA revolver. We discussed the making of the cartridge and the results thus far (at the time). I never even thought of it being fired from a rifle. Jim didn't mention it either, so now I am curious if it was ever considered.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

It seems to me that there's a guy on here that modifies Italian '73 carriers to accomodate the shorter 45 Cowboy. I would guess that something similar would be required along with a 475 caliber barrel obviously.

[JimT]

A few year ago Jim Taylor hunted with me and shot a Sika deer with the 480 Ar. fired from a SA revolver. We discussed the making of the cartridge and the results thus far (at the time). I never even thought of it being fired from a rifle. Jim didn't mention it either, so now I am curious if it was ever considered.

That was a fun time 86er! Yes .. we had thought of putting it in a 66 or 73 but never did anything about it. It would fit right in with the "Undaunted by Common Sense" motto. But I think it would be fun.

[adirondakjack]

The .480 achilles is "doable" in a marlin and I suppose a 73 as well. I have the carriers for the Cowboy .45 Special for the 73, so that's not an issue. It'd be a matter of sourcing a .475 barrel is all.

For the Marlin, Gary Blansett spur45@macomb.com is the guy who makes the cowboy .45 Special run in a marlin, and it'd be duck soup to make the Achilles run in it, after ya got yerself a .475 barrel.....

[rjohns94]

you can still get a '92 in 480 Ruger, both in trapper and carbine length. I would think that would be an easier conversion since the parts are available. Or you can modify that. I'm actually considering getting one as a companion piece to the .475 linebaugh I own.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

The .480 achilles is "doable" in a marlin and I suppose a 73 as well. I have the carriers for the Cowboy .45 Special for the 73, so that's not an issue. It'd be a matter of sourcing a .475 barrel is all.

For the Marlin, Gary Blansett spur45@macomb.com is the guy who makes the cowboy .45 Special run in a marlin, and it'd be duck soup to make the Achilles run in it, after ya got yerself a .475 barrel.....

I was hoping you'd find this thread. As I recall, the Cowboy 45 Special has a case length of 0.895" and retains the 45 Colt case head. The article on the Leverguns site shows the 480 Achilles as a case based on the 45 Colt head with a length of 0.900". It looks, though, like the 480 Achilles bullet they are making results in a longer overall cartridge than what I normally see in the Cowboy 45 Special. Do you think this is still viable in your carrier? I can't get a firm figure, but their OAL for that 480 Achilles looks to be about 1.3" when the bullet heel of 0.2" is inside the case.

[JustaJeepGuy]

When I think of Achilles, I think of his heel--his one point of vulnerability, from which came his downfall. To me, that would be like driving a car named, say, the "Unreliable". I just can't see it. I know the name isn't the object, but still...

[adirondakjack]

The .480 achilles is "doable" in a marlin and I suppose a 73 as well. I have the carriers for the Cowboy .45 Special for the 73, so that's not an issue. It'd be a matter of sourcing a .475 barrel is all.

For the Marlin, Gary Blansett spur45@macomb.com is the guy who makes the cowboy .45 Special run in a marlin, and it'd be duck soup to make the Achilles run in it, after ya got yerself a .475 barrel.....

I was hoping you'd find this thread. As I recall, the Cowboy 45 Special has a case length of 0.895" and retains the 45 Colt case head. The article on the Leverguns site shows the 480 Achilles as a case based on the 45 Colt head with a length of 0.900". It looks, though, like the 480 Achilles bullet they are making results in a longer overall cartridge than what I normally see in the Cowboy 45 Special. Do you think this is still viable in your carrier? I can't get a firm figure, but their OAL for that 480 Achilles looks to be about 1.3" when the bullet heel of 0.2" is inside the case.

Jim's "Achilles" can very well use my brass (what's .005 length?) As a matter of fact, my brass is better than cut down colt cases, as it has proper wall thickness, and colt cases are too thick (tapered on the inside), where mine are properly made with all the taper below the bullet.

Gary Blansett is THE guy to do the Marlins. It's not a simple job, but he's done a few dozen for my round. He makes a completely new and different carrier, reprofiles the lever, moves the ejector forward, and slicks it all up. Since the rounds are identical except the Achillles uses the heeled bullet, the only other change would be the barrel swap. Nothin to it but to do it. In a Marlin, the OAL would be no sweat. ya call out what ya want to run and Gary makes it work. With the Cowboy Carrier in a 73, ya'd have to restrict OAL to about 1.250 or less (and that would mean slightly modifying the carrier). Either trim brass back, seat deeper, or use a bullet with a shorter nose??? I'd trim the case to .845 and run em that way. Adjust the charge a little for the loss of case volume, and the resultant velocity wouldn't be hardly any different if at all.

FWIW I have played with the Lee 300GC bullet (left the GC off though), in my C45S round, and it can be a subsonic thumper out of the rifle..... I'd opine that at say, 750 fps, it'd be a very stealthy way to knock most anything for a loop...... The Achilles would be functionally similar. Note, with the short case, yer NOT gonna see gobs of change in velocity with added barrel length. AAMOF, in some cases, such as light loads of moderately fast powder, it won't go ANY faster than it does in a revolver.

[adirondakjack]

I think it ought to work in the Rossi 92 I am planning to stuff it into. I think that OAL ought to feed alright, I'm going to load up some trimmed shorter than normal 45 Colt loads and see first. Any of you designers of the Achilles floating around here care to post your OAL with bullets seated? It might make my testing a little more meaningful if I can load to the same length

The 92 ain't gonna like the short round. Nobody has successfully made my C45S run in one (essentially the same round, except a .452 bullet) Stick to a Marlin or a 73.....

[adirondakjack]

The .480 has a normal OAL in the 1.3" range. Nominal max OAL for .45 Colt is 1.6" (most will be in the 1.550-1.580 range). That quarter of an inch might as well be a mile in a levergun. Remember, the round on the carrier has to prevent the next round in the tube from getting into the works, or they jam up tighter than a Brady Bunch liberal at a machinegun shoot

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I think the '92 actually has a cartridge stop to perform the function being described by adirondakjack. I'm not an expert, but Nate Kiowa Jones here on the board, amongst others, would know for sure. In the '73, the carrier has to match up with the catridge pretty closely I believe.

[adirondakjack]

I think the '92 actually has a cartridge stop to perform the function being described by adirondakjack. I'm not an expert, but Nate Kiowa Jones here on the board, amongst others, would know for sure. In the '73, the carrier has to match up with the catridge pretty closely I believe.

Yer right of course. In the case of the 92, LOTS of things have to be right, and reducing the OAL that mich is gonna be a major headache. My advise would be to find a used marlin in .45 Colt, get the barrel swapped to .475, send it off to Gary Blansett, along with a handful of dummy rounds, and in due course you'd get back a gun perfectly timed, slicker than frog snot, and short stroked in the bargain. MY "Spur special" Marlins in C45S will cycle a fired case loaded through the gate (that is timing!!!)

[piller]

When I think of Achilles, I think of his heel--his one point of vulnerability, from which came his downfall. To me, that would be like driving a car named, say, the "Unreliable". I just can't see it. I know the name isn't the object, but still...

Yes, I remember it too. Some dirty heel killed Achilles.

[northwoods]

the 480 Achilles being an outside lubed bullet and heeled I was lubing by hand. Sometimes this was unhandy. This may be of interest to other lever gunners. Doughty Enterprises opens up sizer dies to what ever diameter is wanted. He opened a .358 for me to .477 to use in a Lyman 45 to Lube only the 480 bullets. Run in nose first and lube the groves and it does not get any in the heel. Has worked very well.

DOUGHTY ENTERPRISES
P.O. BOX 36
300 S WALNUT
PLAINS, MONTANA 59859
1-406-826-5530

Price at the time was $15.00 but this was 2 years ago so expect the price to be more. Shiping was on top of that. Turn around time was very fast.
The best to all of you.
Bob

[northwoods]

nby,
I don't think so but the method works very well. I have also used an 8mm with a spacer to crimp 310 martini heeled bullets. Works great, if I had a 41 colt I bet something could be used for that also. Belt Mountain was going to make some with a spacer but do not know if he will, or does. If you make it yourself follow Jim Taylors method. Just be careful not to open the slots too wide or you will get little creases in the case. May not be good for case life.
Respectfully
Bob

[JimT]

I'm wondering if an extended shellholder would work better than the spacer.

The problem is getting the cartridge up far enough into the crimp die to cause the collet to work. The ideal solution would be to make a collet die that was short enough. I don't have the machine skills for that. I am sure there are guys on here who do.

[adirondakjack]

Bernie at Old West Bullet Moulds (google him for an addy) advertizes crimp dies for heeled bullets. He might be yer man. (danged fine mould maker too)

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Sounds encouraging. Keep us posted. I am interesting in hearing about it for sure.

[adirondakjack]

I ran 318 grain (Lee 300 GC, cast hard and water quenched)) .45 Colt bullets at 1300 fps out of the BH with 21 grains H110. Do a case capacity test (I'd use something like bullseye powder to fill the case to the level where the bullet base would be, and compare the weight of the charge VS a 100% charge with a 300 grain.45 Bullet in .45 Colt). See where ya are VS .45 Colt. Then since your larger barrel diameter means less bore resistance than a .45, you get a hair of play there. I suspect your 350 at 1200 will work out fine with something like 2400 or 4227 (I was gonna say H110, but charges with that are so touchy on the low end, working up is hard), With a 92, yer gonna have plenty of warning from primers etc before ya ever hurt the gun during a workup.