OT: Blackpowder Rifles, Sidelock OR Inline...

[Old No7]

Please let me state right up front that the intent of my post is NOT to start a war between those who prefer the traditional sidelocks for blackpowder rifles and those who favor the modern inlines. This is an "OR" discussion, thank you very much, not a "VERSUS" arguement...

I figure there's enough going on to keep all of our guns regardless of the action types, that we don't need to flame each other over the variations and our likes or dislikes of each...

I'm just looking for your thoughts and ideas on why you may prefer one versus the other, to help me out... Here's my dilemma...

I've got a nice shiny new T/C Omega X7 .50 caliber inline, this limited edition model has the brown laminated stock, the standard Omega action and a short 24" barrel which is fluted at the action end (near where the "receiver" would be) and is reduced in diameter 10" or so in front of that to the muzzle. The shorter length and the reduced barrel diameter really reduce the weight, and the gun handles and carries great. Better yet, with the "receiver mounted" peep sight, it shoots great too!

T-C Omega - website pix.jpg

So what's the problem???

I just don't like or enjoy shooting it...................................................

At the house after cleaning it, or while getting her ready to go out to the range, I really like the way she looks and handles -- it's light, handy and feels good. There's a lot to like with this model.

But when shooting at the range, I keep asking myself "Gee, now why didn't I bring the old .45 cal T/C Cherokee instead?" (That would be the traditional sidehammer.)

I know the Omega will have more knock-down power with the larger caliber and modern jacketed/sabot bullet combinations, as compared to the patched round balls that I usually shoot from the sidelock. But shooting the Omega -- just isn't any fun for me...

I am thinking some of you LeverGunners may have had similar challenges of reaching for your favorite old lever action -- or grabbing the newer AR semi-auto instead (or vice versa). Or grabbing the old side-by-side wood & walnut shotgun, or the plastic-stocked modern semi-auto blaster.

Let's agree that each has its place, the old and the new, and each may have advantages or disadvantages, and while the newer stuff may possibly have more advantages, it comes with less "tradition" for those who value that attribute.

Anyway, that's the issue...

Do I keep the modern Omega, where I could knock a deer down at 1.5X the distance (or 2X if I scoped it) -- but maybe not enjoy it so much -- or do I stick with what my gut is telling me (and to tradition) and stay with the older sidelock and stalk closer to the game -- possibly even passing on shots the Omega could have done with ease.

Sigh.........

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this...

Old No7

[pokey]

pick up a second side hammer in 50 or 54 and call it good.
second hand one run pretty cheap most places.
100.00 to 300.00. make your self happy.


good luck, pokey

[iceman]

I have only shot in line muzzle loaders myself. Two reasons for this. When it became legal here to use them for deer that was all that was available. The second reason is I am left handed and lefty versions are even harder to find. For me they are a tool for hunting, no romance just a tool. I understand your feelings though. I have a super accurate 270 bolt that I could use during rifle season,but it usually is a lever that goes with me. No real answer to your question just use whatever turns your crank and enjoy. Now if I could only figure out how you could ship me that Thompson so that you wouldn't have so many decissions to make.

[Nath]

When those in-line systems started coming out I thought WOW but after a while I thought no not for me.
The trad designs are allmost works of art compared and a hunting gun for me has to be pleasing to the eye because we do sit and look at them or when we are toting etc.
Please don't be offended but I just refuse to buy into this extra knock down spiel we hear about so often. A patched ball in the correct place of soft lead is ample and ok you may not reach as far but where is the fun in that any way.
The trad designs are allways aggreable in my opinion and that is all it is , my opinion.
Any one using an in-line and making a good shot I would be shaking their hand just the same

Nath.

[bigbore442001]

I would keep it as a back up muzzleloader for hunting. You never know when the other may run afoul or something. You may have someone in the family who wants to hunt during the december season and they don't have a muzzleloader.

I own both types but do most of my hunting with the inlines. Getting a deer in the northeast is tough enough. If I am lucky enough to see a deer I want the gun to go off.

[gamekeeper]

As I understand it your hunting seasons are split up for B/P, handgun, Bow etc. etc. So it makes sense to hunt the B/P season with a firearm that has most of the modern attributes of a regular rifle if you want the maximum chance of bringing home the venison. However I'm a bit of a history nut and to take game with the type of gun that Davy Crockett might have used or a bow that Robin Hood was OK with gives me more pleasure, even if I come home empty handed.
I guess my signature line says it all

[rjohns94]

Firearms are a very personal thing. What fits one person, does not fit the next. The ancient in me is soothed by the traditional, the old, the proven, the beautiful. My Flintlock just fits me. I have never been drawn to the modern in line. I have read of their better performance, ease of cleaning etc etc. In this state, they are both leagal for the early muzzleloader season, but only the traditional is allowed in the late season. In my hands, I can feel the heart and soul of a traditional rifle. I like the limitations of the sights, the rifle. It fits my style of hunting. I like to dress in the traditional garb and spend days camping out going after a specific deer in an area.

I liken it to my fondness of revolvers over semi's, levers over bolt guns or semi's, the 45-70 over the whiz bang magnums, side by sides over semi-autos. That is not to say that I don't own a bolt gun, or semi auto shotgun or rifle, just to say, that I prefer to reach for the older firearms. Their history and their feel and looks just speak to me.

If it were me and I was asking myself this question, I would sell the rifle and put the money to custom flintlock and never regret it.

[Pete44ru]

Old No7, you MUST be my brother from another mother !

I, too, have an Omega (Realtree/stainless), and an older .45 Cherokee (DST) - and faced the same quandry, as I passed through the various phases of hunting activity/objectives/desires, over the last 49 years.

As with my centerfires, the "sport" of hunting was getting to seem too "easy".

The animals kept "piling up", and it got to the point that I still had game meat left over, after stuffing my larder and giving away everything I could to any friend that would take some.
I thought I needed to DO something, in order to make it more of a personal challenge for myself.

I first resolved my feelings, with regards to muzzleloading, by reserving the Omega for party hunts, and the Cherokee for solitary woods-walking hunts - but for the last few years using the Cherokee almost exclusively, because I've changed to "going hunting" more to get outdoors than to actually bag some animal.
YMMV, but I've come to the view that I've had/done my share, so it's time for others to "take over the reins".

For me now, comradarie, good companionship, and a gun that I like is what's important to "making" a hunt enjoyable - and not game bagged.

.

[jnyork]

pix.jpg[/attachment]
So what's the problem???

I just don't like or enjoy shooting it...................................................



But when shooting at the range, I keep asking myself "Gee, now why didn't I bring the old .45 cal T/C Cherokee instead?" (That would be the traditional sidehammer.)
shooting the Omega -- just isn't any fun for me...

I .

the issue...

Do I keep the modern Omega, where I could knock a deer down at 1.5X the distance (or 2X if I scoped it) -- but maybe not enjoy it so much -- or do I stick with what my gut is telling me (and to tradition) and stay with the older sidelock and stalk closer to the game -- possibly even passing on shots the Omega could have done with ease.

Sigh.........

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this...

Old No7

Seems pretty cut and dried to me. You dont like the Omega and like the sidelock. Sooooo, what do YOU think you should do?

You might like a Lyman Great Plains rifle, has great lines more traditional in styling and they shoot very well indeed. Get the kit and have fun building your own, quite easy, even a cave man can do it.

[Modoc ED]

Pete44ru said:

As with my centerfires, the "sport" of hunting was getting to seem too "easy".

The animals kept "piling up", and it got to the point that I still had game meat left over, after stuffing my larder and giving away everything I could to any friend that would take some.
I thought I needed to DO something, in order to make it more of a personal challenge for myself.

I'm not sure that I buy that. It is no harder finding game witn an in-line or muzzle loader than it is with a centerfire cartridge rifle.

If you're talking about making a shot with one over the other, I don't see it. If you're (meaning everyone) going to hunt with an in-line or muzzle loader you (meaning everyone) should be as proficient with it as you (meaning everyone) are with a centerfire cartridge rifle.

[Old Time Hunter]

I must have been mis-lead along the way as I always thought when the hunting "regs" said " muzzle loader, black powder or it's equivalent" and then "special season for traditional muzzle loading guns in the pioneer spirit", that would mean something that they might have used in the "pioneer" days. How long has the 209 primed in-line been around? Here in Wisconsin, scopes are not allowed on BP muzzle loaders unless they offer no magnification. But, if you do not want to take advantage of the special season and want to use those "new" fangled in-lines during regular rifle season...be my guest.

[Modoc ED]

I kinda go along with that. They are talking in some states about restricting in-line guns to centerfire cartridge season/regular rifle season.

[deerwhacker444]

I have an .50 Omega and a custom .40 LH Flinty. I like both and use both, but for different hunting scenarios.

Last year I got drawn for a state hunt. This is a 2 day hunt and I could shoot either sex deer. Basically, this is a free hunt to fill the freezer. I took the Omega because I know with it being scoped, anything I point it at is dead out to 150 yards or so and it gives darn near 45-70 performance shooting 120 gr. 777 and 300 gr. .45 Hornady XTP bullets. And I did take a nice 8 pt buck with it at about 30 yards.

The flinty I reserve for hunting around home. When I can relax in a stand or slip quietly thru the woods and don't have to worry about time constraints and it doesn't matter if I shoot at anything or not.

They both have their place in my mind, just for different situations.

[DBW]

Firearms are like women. Some fit your personality, others grate against it. Life being short, why burden yourself with one that leaves you feeling frustrated.

[cas]

Shooting a modern inline is like kissing your sister.

[Chuck 100 yd]

In Washington state ( west side at least) it seems to rain every day of the hunting season.

I own 15 or so ML rifles and only one is an inline. WA. state requires ML to shoot lead bullets (no jacketed bullets) for hunting in the ML season. Also ML rifles for hunting must use original type caps that fit over the nipple and are exposed to the weather. Not vary many
inlines made today will qualify under the rules.
My only inline is a Knight Big Horn .50 cal. 26" SS.
Old style inline that is super accurate using either bore fitting conical or sabots from knight with all lead bullets.

If I am hunting to get meat I will take the Knight. If hunting for sport a traditional will be in my hands.

[65bee]

I also own and hunt with an Omega X-7 Carbine, scoped at that! Here in the big woods of northern New England, deer hunting is not 'easy'. I truly wish some of you fellows who are in parts of the country where deer hunting boils down to deciding how big an 8-pointer you want to settle for, could try hunting here. If you are lucky and skillful, you might get one chance at a legal buck the entire season, and I am talking a 'spike' or 4-pointer. Muzzle-loaders give us the opportunity to entend our hunting season, and I personally look on them as a tool. I started with a T-C Cherokee and killed my first deer in 1976 with it. Since then I have graduated to a T-C Scout, Black Diamond, and my present Omega. All have served me well. Would I personally return to a traditional side-hammer - NO! Only if the law dictated that I must.

[marlinman93]

Oregon doesn't allow modern firearms during blackpowder season, so if we choose to buy one it can only be used during genral seasons. No reason to own one if I can't use it during the BP season, so their out for me. I'm actually not at all fond of them anyway, as I like tha repros or originals much better, so that's what I own.
Something about doing it the exact way it was done in the mid 1800's that tickles me. I like traditional sights also, and a scope is fine on a modern hunting or target rifle, but not on a traditional muzzleloader. Oregon doesn't allow modern sights for BP either.

[AJMD429]

Shoot the one you really like (sidelock)...! Nobody will laugh (or 'flame' you), especially the deer you shoot.

If you think the in-line is that much more accurate, keep it around in case there's a shootin' contest you can win with it.

I do like the idea of keeping it around in case you can use it to introduce someone new to the fun of shooting.

Personally, my muzzleloader choices were influenced by EASE OF CLEANING first, then by ACCURACY second, and not much at all by TRADITION or APPEARANCE. They're ALL more accurate than I am, so really EASE OF CLEANING was the biggie, and for that it was hard to beat the Savage ML10, since you can even use smokeless (heretic) powder.

[Rusty]

ICEMAN,

There's nothing that says you can't shoot a right handed capgun left handed I did it. I even shot my righthanded rocklock left handed.

Look at Nath shooting his side by side M/L/ shotgun... one of those caps is right buy his face. No reason you can't do it as well. You'll be wearing shooting glasses anyway, right?

They work both ways,trust me.

[JerryB]

This has taken some nice deer with a .451 patched round ball. I use what I like and you should to and enjoy it.

[rhead]

I prefer the sidelock. The endlines are more efficient but just aren't any fun.




As with my centerfires, the "sport" of hunting was getting to seem too "easy".

The animals kept "piling up", and it got to the point that I still had game meat left over, after stuffing my larder and giving away everything I could to any friend that would take some.
I thought I needed to DO something, in order to make it more of a personal challenge for myself.



If you want to make it a challenge start with a bois d'arc tree (ash or Yew depending on where you are) cut it split it and season it. Make the bow, make the shafts, (I used lodgepole pine) make the arrowpoints and arrows. Then kill the deer. I'm glad I did it but I don;t think I would start over at my age.

[JReed]

Buddy of mine has a TC Omega that he really likes I have shot it a few times and it is a very accurate gun but really dosnt do much for me. I love my TC Renegade not as fancy but it just speaks to me when I am shooting it. Go with what you like and pick up another side lock.

[Hobie]

Your disclaimer doesn't really cut it, does it?

Ok, seriously. There is no purpose is using a gun, no matter how efficient (unless you are at WAR), unless you enjoy using it. Get a good sidelock, a used TC perhaps, maybe even a flintlock. Whatever you do, get something you enjoy shooting.

[Pete44ru]

[I'm not sure that I buy that. It is no harder finding game witn an in-line or muzzle loader than it is with a centerfire cartridge rifle.]

Of course it isn't, Modoc Ed.
That's not what I was talking about.
I was speaking to how MY personal outlook towards game taking, and MY evolving perspective over the years has led ME to the use of less sophisticated centerfire AND muzzleloading firearms to make things a little more challenging for ME, personally - not any/everyone else.

[If you want to make it a challenge start with a bois d'arc tree (ash or Yew depending on where you are) cut it split it and season it. Make the bow, make the shafts, (I used lodgepole pine) make the arrowpoints and arrows. Then kill the deer. I'm glad I did it ]

Rhead - It's a good suggestion, but I've been there, did that - long ago (1970's), and feel the same way (glad I did it) - but haven't been able to pull a bow in 10 years, because critical muscles have been surgically removed from my neck/shoulders.

.

[PrimitiveHunter]

A/HO Pete! i myself am into a primitive archery my only kll so far has been a ground hog but anywho... i hunt a lot with my .50 caliber flintlock, one of the only guns ill use along with my lever guns.. but i couldnt ever see myself using an in-line and thats just me.,..

[PrimitiveHunter]

by the way jerry beautiful setup, im thinkin of gettin myself a .32 percussion for handling the squirrels, my .50 flintlock too big for em. alos ell said rjohns94. i am the exact same way when it comes to bows and guns

[SmokeEater2]

I've handled an Inline or two but they just don't speak to me like my Lyman Plains rifle does. She's pretty and sleek and that round ball will sure enough collect the venison. Mine is the LH version and fits me like a glove and is a lot more accurate than my eyes are anymore. I caught a little grief when I brought her to the muzzleloading season deer camp from a couple of the guys using high dollar Inlines..at first.

But,whatever makes You happy and makes You feel good when You get a chance to sneak off to the woods for a few hours is the gun You should be using,no matter what I or anybody else thinks.

[SmokeEater2]

This has taken some nice deer with a .451 patched round ball. I use what I like and you should to and enjoy it.

Beautiful outfit You have there jerryB! Thanks for posting the pic for us.

[bigbore442001]

Very nice looking tomahawk. What make is it?

[Old Ironsights]

Everyone knows I'm odd, but here goes my 2P.

It doesn't really matter how it's ignited, a single shot caseless ammunition rifle is a single shot caseless ammunition rifle.

With a very few exceptions, range is more a factor of bullet choice than anything else (RB-only Twist & "Smokeless" MZ guns being the big exceptions).

I think flintlocks are cool, from a technical standpoint. But the fancy wood/brown guns don't move me beyond their basic functionality. Maybe that's why I have a Stainless Steel & Black Plastic Externally Ignited 50 Cal. Caseless Ammunition Sniper Rifle.



I don't really care for single side caplocks, but I like Hammer Doubles. Go figure. Maybe it's a balance thing.

I suppose my FAVORITE firing mechanisim is the Under Hammer, though I can think of a LOT of really cool/evil things to do with the CVA Electra and a bullpup stock...