OT - Taking Christ out of Christmas

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:37 am

A little late for Christmas, but I thought I'd share it anyways. This is one of the best counters to the anti-Christmas/anti-Christian/anti-religion crowd I have read!!!

http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/Dine ... _christmas

Taking Christ Out of Christmas
By Dinesh D'Souza
Monday, December 24, 2007

I appeared Friday evening on CNN to discuss "the war against Christmas," a strange and demented war if there ever was one. We've heard about stores that refuse to allow employees to say "Merry Christmas" and communities legally compelled to take down nativity scenes. The specific case under discussion involved a Seattle volunteer policeman--a former Christian pastor turned militant atheist--who has convinced the department to remove the crosses from police chaplains' badges. His argument? Chaplains have to minister to non-Christians as well as Christians. Some people might object to the crosses. Therefore all Christian symbolism is inappropriate.

Yet the very fact that the police and military have chaplains shows that there are times of bereavement when secular counseling is inadequate. When people lose a loved one they don't want a therapist, they want a chaplain! So the religious need is apparent here. And yet chaplains don't come in the generic theist variety; they are Catholic or Lutheran or whatever. Now there is no evidence whatsoever that a Christian chaplain cannot console a non-Christian parent or widow. The sole reason for getting rid of the Christian symbol is the premise that someone may object to it, and not everyone subscribes to the Christian worldview.

But apply this logic to another holiday and its absurdity becomes manifest. Imagine if the ACLU filed lawsuits nationwide to remove all references to Martin Luther King on Martin Luther King day. The reason is that not everyone agrees that King's legacy was a positive one, and that the main beneficiaries of King's activism have been African Americans and other minorities. Southern segregationists, in particular, feel excluded from King's "beloved community." So in the name of diversity and tolerance all monuments and symbols and references to King should be erased. Instead Martin Luther King day becomes another "happy holiday."

This would be crazy. The answer to the ACLU would go something like this: "We are honoring King because we believe he has changed our civilization and our world vastly for the better. If you don't agree, by all means write a letter to the editor. But it is intolerance bordering on bigotry for institutions to get rid of all references to King simply because some people don't like him or feel excluded by his vision."

The same argument applies to Christ and Christmas. We are celebrating Christmas because, in the words of historian J.M. Roberts: "We could none of us today be what we are if a handful of Jews nearly two thousand years ago had not believed that they had known a great teacher, seen him crucified, dead and buried, and then rise again." Notice that this is an understanding of Christmas that even secular people can embrace: whether or not you think Christ is the messiah, he has done more to shape our world, and for the better, than any other single figure. So what's wrong with celebrating Christmas in the spirit of Christ? Why on earth should the symbolism of "Merry Christmas" and carols and crosses on police chaplains' uniforms be removed just because of the presence of one or a few malcontents? Why is it racism to erase all references to Martin Luther King but socially acceptable to object on the same grounds to Christ?

We've reached a sad state in the West when we acquiesce in a hate-filled campaign to deny our Christian roots and heritage. Athens and Jerusalem are both foundation pillars of Western civilization, and the presence of a few people who object to Socrates or Christ doesn't change this fact one bit. The malcontents are suffering from historical amnesia: they don't seem tor recognize that most of our secular values from compassion to the preciousness of human life are the distinctive legacy of Christianity. That's why even atheists should, for once, set aside their deep-seated resentments and hatreds and say, even if in a lower voice so that no one else can hear, "Thank God for Christianity."

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:55 am

It's a small sign of what's yet to come. Only be degrading Christ can there ever be any hope of establishing a one world religion?

The Bible is clear that it WILL come, we do not have to like it or accept it, but understand it's coming and prepare our hearts for the spiritual battle that lies ahead.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:03 am

As a Christian, this is an odd holiday in that it is not Christ's birthday and it was a pagan holiday which was co-opted. He said to celebrate his death.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:30 am

I truly do not see a need to counter these people, nor do I see a need for Christians to reaffirm their beliefs by forcing them on a public that does not share the faith or crave it's teaching.

The birth date of Jesus has never been confirmed. The Bible does not command the celebration. While the birth of the Christ is an occassion worthy of celebration, Christmas as we know it is a fabricated holy day.

Christ and the Gospel can be shared 365 days a year. Any Christian can witness to those who are open to hear the Word, any time of the day or night.

My solution is to take Christmas away from the non-Christians.

Christians should celebrate His birth, but we should endeavor to begin a grass-roots political effort to deprive those who would deny us the right to exercise our faith as we see fit, of the power to commercially exploit that sacred event. We should refuse to comply with the demand for massive and unecessary commercial consumerism during the "holiday season".

I say we beat them at their own game, and by using their rules.

How do you think merchants will react when Christians stop propping up the economy at "Christmas" time? How do you think that millions of government sponges will react when we demand that they continue to work and serve the people rather than closing down the government for "the holidays"?

We should stop begging for what is already ours, and leave them what is theirs.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:52 am

Good post Ysabel. Fweidner and OS, I see what your saying, but sadly I think that we live in a world where the other side will take this as far as they can if we do not stand up for ourselves. This is much bigger than Christmas or nativity scenes. They want a "God free" society where we can neither utter His name nor talk about right and wrong as based on scripture. Our Founders spoke His name boldly in the public forum and without shame. Now, it's like we carry the plague when we utter His name in society. On the same vein, it may not be long before we are charged with a hate crime if we state that we are against condoning homosexuality because of what the Bible says. Living with many members of the Secular/Humanist Left and "discussing" these issues with them, I am convinced that is what is wanted by these folks if they can take control of society. We are not dealing with rational folks on this issue and many others including the 2nd ammendment.

cutter · Post by **cutter** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:24 am

Sigh...

My wife and I watched part of Tim Allens Santa Clause movie over the weekend. At one point, he was critisizing someone about the true meaning of Christmas, but got it all wrong.

Oh, well. The TV is rarely on in my house anyway, too depressing and stupid.

engravertom · Post by **engravertom** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:26 pm

As a Christian, this is an odd holiday in that it is not Christ's birthday and it was a pagan holiday which was co-opted. He said to celebrate his death.

+1

The birth date of Jesus has never been confirmed. The Bible does not command the celebration. While the birth of the Christ is an occassion worthy of celebration, Christmas as we know it is a fabricated holy day.

+1 again

I'd rather concentrate on loving the brethren, which Jesus said would be a sign to those who do not yet believe.

I need to live a more joyful life, so some might ask about the hope within me...

The only Christian "Holy day" is the first day of the week, which reminds us of his ressurection, whithout which his birth would have no meaning or benefit to us.

many happy resurrection days to you all!

Tom

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:40 pm

Mny people who bemoan things like "Happy Holidays" and assorted "non Christmas" greetings also miss somthing important:

While yes, there are some (many?) who are actively trying to "de-religion" Christmas, there is also a not insignificant group of "old-school" Protestants who have a different take on Christmas that dates back to pre-Puritan times.

To them, it is utterly inappropriate to put up decorations or wish someone "Merry Christmas" during ADVENT - a wholy seperate segment & celebration during the Church Year.

This is why there are many references to the tradition of not putting up the Christmas Tree or decorating until late Christmas Eve.

According to the "classic european" (C of E, Lutheran, Reformed/Calvanist, etc) Protestant Church, you have:

Advent
Christmas Eve
Christmas Day
the 12 Days of Christmas
12th Night
Epiphany

That is, essentially, the whole Season.

Many folks don't know or have forgotten that the "Wise Men" did not arive until much later than the Nativity and should not be positioned at the Cresche at all - though traditionally they would be added on 12th night for the final, and larger, gift-giving that occurs to commemorate Epiphany.

(Eastern-Orthadox traditionally celebrate Epiphany as the rememberance of Jesus's Baptisim in the Jordan)

Anyway, the Point is, I know a couple of very old Preachers who took great Theological umbrage at the "celebration" of Christmas during the season of Advent.

FWIW...

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:14 pm

Most Christians have known that Christmas was not the actual time of year for Jesus birth. I for one would have no problems with moving it further back. However, I have no problems with X-ing out pagan holidays and over writing them with Christian holidays either. It doesn't make one a Pagan to observe Christmas on December 25th. If anything, it erases the sham of Pagan "Sun" worship and replaces it with "Son" worship....the story of God the Father's mercy, love and grace to us with his Son. On Halloween, we emphasize Christ to our kids, and have attended "Light the Night" celebrations on those days. All that said.....WE NEED TO TAKE EASTER BACK FROM THE EASTER BUNNY!