73 Winchester in 357

[Str8man]

I had a Uberti 73 in 357 and I shot off the shelf full powered Remington and Winchester factory .357 ammunition out of it for a couple of years.
I really liked that rifle until someone told me that they had to be fired with only "Cowboy" loads which were not powerful enough for my needs "deer hunting" It made me nervous so I eventually traded it off.
I have been looking at getting another 73 in 45 colt as a hunting rifle and my thoughts went back to the 357 model 73 I had.
I really like that caliber and it shot well in my old Uberti. SO,
I call Uberti today (Which is now actually Benelli when they answer the phone) and talk to their Customer service tech and ask if it is OK to use standard velocity off the shelf full power .357's in the 73 copies.
He said "Of course it is, We build them to Saami Specs and we wouldn't stamp .357 on the barrel if we didn't think it could handle .357 factory ammo, We are fully aware that there are people who will shoot off the shelf .357 ammo out of them and would sell them as .38 specials if we didn't think it could handle a factory .357"
So now I am completely back to confusion, Should I just buy another .357 model 73 since I have the reloading stuff for it or would the .45 Colt a better hunting round?

[Buffboy]

The 73s are safe with any standard pressure 357 ammo and always have been. The 45colt 73s should be limited to standard pressure loads and not higher pressure reloads that are often talked about here and elsewhere (aka ruger loads)because of increased bolt thrust of the larger cartridge. Either will do on deer with good bullets with a little flatter trajectory advantage with 357.

[Str8man]

The 73s are safe with any standard pressure 357 ammo and always have been. The 45colt 73s should be limited to standard pressure loads and not higher pressure reloads that are often talked about here and elsewhere (aka ruger loads)because of increased bolt thrust of the larger cartridge. Either will do on deer with good bullets with a little flatter trajectory advantage with 357.

That was pretty much what the Uberti tech guy said. He said if they were stamped .357 and someone blew one up with a factory .357 that they wouldn't be in business long because of lawsuits.
I have heard that they needed low powered loads from so many people that I veered away from them since I got rid of my old one.
He said a lot of people do shoot the low powered cowboy ammo but they were fully capable of any off the shelf ammo as long as it was within Saami specs for .357 magnums.
"No Problem" were his exact words"
Now I'm a little upset I traded off my old one.

[Grizzly Adams]

I had a Uberti 73 in 357 and I shot off the shelf full powered Remington and Winchester factory .357 ammunition out of it for a couple of years.
I really liked that rifle until someone told me that they had to be fired with only "Cowboy" loads which were not powerful enough for my needs "deer hunting" It made me nervous so I eventually traded it off.
I:?

The nonsense you hear talked up about the strength of the Uberti 73 is just that - nonsense. First there's the "Cowboy load only" crowd, followed closely by the "Black Powder only" clan! Both are ....misinformed. The Uberti 73 is proofed for smokeless powder, and safe within SAAMI specs for the caliber for which it is marked.

Incidentally, the current version of the Uberti 73 is actually stronger in terms of the bolt and firing pin than the one you sold.

[rjohns94]

love those 73's when you get your new one, post pics and range report!!

[Str8man]

I had a Uberti 73 in 357 and I shot off the shelf full powered Remington and Winchester factory .357 ammunition out of it for a couple of years.
I really liked that rifle until someone told me that they had to be fired with only "Cowboy" loads which were not powerful enough for my needs "deer hunting" It made me nervous so I eventually traded it off.
I:?

The nonsense you hear talked up about the strength of the Uberti 73 is just that - nonsense. First there's the "Cowboy load only" crowd, followed closely by the "Black Powder only" clan! Both are ....misinformed. The Uberti 73 is proofed for smokeless powder, and safe within SAAMI specs for the caliber for which it is marked.

Incidentally, the current version of the Uberti 73 is actually stronger in terms of the bolt and firing pin than the one you sold.

That's good to know they are even stronger. I was just looking and they also apparently function with 38 Special ammo now as well.
If I remember I had problems trying to get 38 special ammo to cycle in my old one.
I think I'm just going to go with the 357.
I have 1000's of rounds and reloading equiptment and am already set up for 357 because I have other guns "Including a pair of single actions, One Colt One Uberti" So I don't have to buy more reloading equiptment for 45 Colt which will save in the long run.
I don't even need the rifle.
I have a beautiful original 92 re-bored to 357.
I just have a terrible weakness for the look of the 73's
Thanks
Dave

[Str8man]

love those 73's when you get your new one, post pics and range report!!

I will do that!
Thanks
Dave

[Griff]

I'm a bit more cautious about the Uberti '73 & .357 Mag loads. And in good company:

1873 UBERTI WINCHESTER ..... TODAY, by Paco.

357 MAGNUM AND THE LITERATURE by Paco.

But hey, if the manufacturer sez it's ok, who am I to argue,

[Str8man]

I'm a bit more cautious about the Uberti '73 & .357 Mag loads. And in good company:

1873 UBERTI WINCHESTER ..... TODAY, by Paco.

357 MAGNUM AND THE LITERATURE by Paco.

But hey, if the manufacturer sez it's ok, who am I to argue,

Now I'm back to Nervous again LOL!

I just got this email a little over two hours ago re-affirming what they told me on the phone....

Dave, I am sending the information you requested on the 1873 Model Uberti rifle.
You will note that USING HANDLOADED AMMUNITION WILL VIOLATE YOUR WARRANTY! For reasons of Liability and Safety use only commercially manufactured ammunition meeting SAAMI specs for .357 magnum. We have no known failures in these rifles using commercially manufactured ammunition.
Please read the Disclaimer and Ammunition specifications carefully.
Thank You
Dennis
~Benelli USA~


NOTICE - DISCLAIMER OF LIABILITY
A. Uberti S.p.A. shall not be responsible for product malfunction or for physical injury,
death, or property damage from the gun’s intentional or accidental discharge, its criminal
or negligent use, improper or careless handling, unauthorized modifications, corrosion or
other failure to maintain, use of defective, improper, hand-loader or reloaded ammunition,
or other than original, good condition, high quality, commercially manufactured ammuni-
tion, or from its use for purposes or subjection to treatments for which it was not
designed. A. Uberti S.p.A. will not honor claims made by the second or subsequent own-
ers of the firearm. While this firearm was tested, carefully inspected, and packaged
before it left the factory, A. Uberti S.p.A. cannot thereafter control product handling.
Please be sure to examine this firearm carefully when purchased to ensure it is unloaded
and undamaged. Your gun dealer will assist you in making this examination and answer
any further questions in this regard.
AMMUNITION
AMMUNITION WARNING: Since your gun has been designed for specific caliber ammu-
nition, use only commercially manufactured ammunition which pressure cannot be higher
than the ones stated by SAAMI or C.I.P. standards.
Factory ammunitions must be in excellent condition, of original high quality, and specifi-
cally recommended for the gun and nothing else.
Never use reloaded or hand-loaded ammunitions. Never carry the gun with a round in
the chamber until ready to shoot.

Use ONLY COMMERCIALLY loaded cartridges that have been loaded in accor-
dance with SAAMI-C.I.P. stancards.


I'm just going to tear my hair out until I make the plunge! LOL!!!
Dave

[AJD]

Reminds my of the Python and Model 19 debates that go on about whether or not they will stand up to a lot of magnum use. The Python has the frame strength but many worry about them going out of time.

I have a Python and a Uberti 1873 in .357 Magnum. To be honest so far I've pretty much stuck only to .38 Specials because of articles like the one that was listed above. My guess is the Uberti will handle the .357 Magnum just fine but it just won't to it with the ease that a 1892 would.

[Griff]

Str8man,
I didn't throw that out there to scare you straight! Just thought that I'd show you another side to the agrument. With full house .357s running @ 40-42K, they're certainly not lightweights. And I have no fear that the Uberti 1873 will handle them... Just wanna say the cautionary side of me asks how much of steady diet would I feed it? As AJD sez, my mdl 65 S&W has been branded as too whimpy for a steady diet of .357s, yet I've fired hundreds through it... but I fired several hundred thousand .38+Ps and have never worried about it coming apart, nor has the frame stretched one silly millimeter.

I think the important thing to remember is... it's a steel frame, unlike the brass frame Henry & the '66, which WILL NOT hold up to .357 Mag ammo, and why it's only chambered for the .38Spl. But, do read Paco's article on the modern 1873, he explains why the factory rates it ok for .357 ammo, and again just why he's unsure. Maybe unsure is a little strong, but why he's holding his to a 23K level. Part of which as I understand, is to keep the beautiful little rifle pristine. Which is a wholly different thing than fear it'll come apart.

[Str8man]

Str8man,
I didn't throw that out there to scare you straight! Just thought that I'd show you another side to the agrument. With full house .357s running @ 40-42K, they're certainly not lightweights. And I have no fear that the Uberti 1873 will handle them... Just wanna say the cautionary side of me asks how much of steady diet would I feed it? As AJD sez, my mdl 65 S&W has been branded as too whimpy for a steady diet of .357s, yet I've fired hundreds through it... but I fired several hundred thousand .38+Ps and have never worried about it coming apart, nor has the frame stretched one silly millimeter.

I think the important thing to remember is... it's a steel frame, unlike the brass frame Henry & the '66, which WILL NOT hold up to .357 Mag ammo, and why it's only chambered for the .38Spl. But, do read Paco's article on the modern 1873, he explains why the factory rates it ok for .357 ammo, and again just why he's unsure. Maybe unsure is a little strong, but why he's holding his to a 23K level. Part of which as I understand, is to keep the beautiful little rifle pristine. Which is a wholly different thing than fear it'll come apart.

Thanks Griff,
I understand what you're saying.
I think I'll be ok.
I have a really nice 92 Winchester 32-20 converted to .357.
I'm not what you would call a shooter for the sake of shooting (although I do that occasionally)
My biggest thing is hunting.
I inherited my 92 when my grandfather passed away and I shot it a few times and then bought one box of .357- 145 grain Winchester silvertips (50 rounds) I sighted it in which only took about 5 or 6 rounds and I have shot 16 deer with it in the last 9 or so years and still have the original silvertips in the magazine and about 15 rounds still in the box. so you can see how much that gun has actually been fired.
I've never had to shoot anything more than once with it
That gun is just deadly and is the first thing I grab if I am just taking along a rifle to stroll through the woods or ride my horse.
So if I did buy the 73 I would seriously be surprised if it ever gets more than a couple hundred rounds fired through it in my lifetime (I'm almost 50)
I also have a lot of other shootin irons I use for just plain blasting away at things.
I just use the 357 rifle for serious work since it does it so well.
In all honesty the 73 might not see much more actual use than the 92 has, Maybe 25 or 30 rounds in the last 10 years.
People think I shoot it a lot more because I frequently have it with me but I know exactly where it hits and don't shoot it all that much. Just carry it a lot.
That also means I look at it a lot since it's with me so frequently and I just want to look at a 73 for awhile .
I really don't need it.
I just want it.
I'm weak that way.
After reading the article though it's nice to see others shoot deer with the 357. I was skeptical that I could do it until I started shooting them with the 92, They all drop like rocks with the 145 grain silvertip.
I thought about moving up to 158 grain JSP's but the 145 grain silvertip does such a good job I got that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude and just shoot the silvertips.
I do use 158 grain JSP's out of my single actions though which get fired a LOT more than my rifle.
I'm rambling here, Sorry,
That's where I'm at though.
I don't do CAS or SASS so that gun will likely see a lot of carrying around on horseback and a little shooting but probably not that much really.

WOW! was that a book or what??? Sorry!

[Lefty Dude]

I own and shoot a Uberti 73 carbine in 44-40, I love the gun.

I also have a Rossi 92 in 44-40 & another in 44Mag. They are my Ball buster's.

I would never subject the 73 44-40 to what I am able to shoot in the Rossi 92's.

Buy a Rossi 92 and have fun.

[Str8man]

I own and shoot a Uberti 73 carbine in 44-40, I love the gun.

I also have a Rossi 92 in 44-40 & another in 44Mag. They are my Ball buster's.

I would never subject the 73 44-40 to what I am able to shoot in the Rossi 92's.

Buy a Rossi 92 and have fun.

Don't really need the Rossi though,
I'm already shooting a 1914 vintage 92 in 357 magnum. with a curley walnut buttstock (not maple) Beautiful rifle but I'm lusting after the 73 which I think is probably the prettiest rifle ever made.
This is what I'm using now which is beautiful in it's own right.



http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/939783/win2.jpg

[Griff]

...This is what I'm using now which is beautiful in it's own right.

Note to self: "Thou shall not lust after another man's rifle!"

[J Miller]

The .357 Mag cartridge is not a wimp cartridge at all.

I have seen with my own two eyes a S&W Mdl 19 frame twist and bend because of top end .357 loads. Hand loads yes, but not over the max as listed in the Lyman manual current at that time.

I have personally, I, me, and myself, shot a Python loose with below max and at max hand loads. Within 3500 rounds the lock up was rattly loose.

So these guns can be beat up badly by top end loads. It happened often enough that S&W brought out the L frames to handle the full power .357s.

.............................................................

All manufacturers either ban hand loads, or warn against their use. None of them accept them. There are just too many variables to consider with so many different components and loaders out there.

SAAMI specs are lower than CIP specs, so if a foreign made gun is proofed with CIP specs SAAMI spec'd ammo wont strain it at all.

...............................................................

Str8man,
What are you worrying about? With how little you shoot it's a moot subject. I shoot more than that from my lever guns and I'm stuck in IL where there is no place TO shoot.

..................................................................

Just my six bits worth,

Joe

[Str8man]

...............................................................

Str8man,
What are you worrying about? With how little you shoot it's a moot subject. I shoot more than that from my lever guns and I'm stuck in IL where there is no place TO shoot.

..................................................................

I'm really not that worried after hearing straight from the company that they have never had one of these rifles fail in 357.
I just had a lot of people scare me away from them for awhile.
I do actually shoot quite a bit but mostly handguns. I have a range on my property, The 357' is more of a deer gun for me.
When I shoot rifles I probabaly shoot my 45-70 Sharps more than any rifle I own with the possible exception of my Garand. I enjoy long range shooting quite a bit.

This is my FAVORITE rifle to shoot! It's a bit heavy to lug around but it is a lever gun!

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Interesting discussion. I am an active Cowboy Action Shooter and the question of the strength of the '73 comes up often.

A good friend of mine bought a used '73 chambered for 357 Magnum a few years ago. My friend's father in law is a gunsmith, and as he examined my friend's new rifle he discovered a hairline crack in the frame. His remark was, that it appeared that too many full strength 357 magnums had been fired through it. The gun was returned to the dealer and my friend got his money back. Since the gun had been bought used, there is no way of knowing what kind of ammo had been run through it to cause the failure, factory ammo or handloads, so no one can say exactly what ruined the frame. But it did have a crack.

I have often wondered about how much pressure a '73 chambered in 357 could take. My RCBS loading manual, 13th edition, says that the industry Max pressure for 357 Magnum is 35,000 PSI, not the 40,000 - 42,000 PSI mentioned earlier in this thread. Still it is good to see that Uberti has unequivically stated that they will stand behind factory 357 ammo fired in a '73.

A couple of things to mention concerning the strength of the '73. The '73 is a toggle link action, just like the '66 and the 1860 Henry. A toggle link action is never truly locked up like a modern rifle is. When a toggle link gun is in battery the toggle links are fully extended and lined up straight. In this condition they will with stand the compression generated by recoil when the cartridge is fired. However if the links are not completely extended, but are slightly folded, and the gun is fired out of battery the links will fold just as surely as your legs will collapse if someone sneaks up behind you and kicks your knees forward. In this condition the bolt will be driven back forcefully, and as the links fold the lever will be driven down. Best case scenario in this situation is the lever will whack your fingers painfully. Worst case scenario is the bolt will be driven back so violently that the firing pin extension, which is only secured to the bolt by a pin about 1/16" in diameter, will part company from the bolt as the pin shears, and will driven back out of the action towards the shooter's face. This has happened. That's why Winchester introduced the trigger block on the Model 1873 over 100 years ago, so the gun would not accidentally be fired out of battery by an errant finger on the trigger until the lever was fully closed and the toggle links fully extended. Uberti stayed true to the original design and included the trigger block. Uberti also stayed true to the design of the Henry and '66 which did not have the trigger block, one must be extra careful with these guns not to accidentally brush the trigger until the gun is fully in battery because they can and will fire when slightly out of battery. The reference to newly made Uberti '73s being stronger than the earlier ones is because Uberti has recently redesigned the method of attachment of the firing pin extension to the bolt. The tiny pin has been replaced by a sturdier method of attachment similar to the original 1873 Winchester design. This does not make the gun any stronger than earlier models, SAAMI pressures must still be observed. It just makes the likelyhood of injury from an out of battery discharge less likely.

It should also be noted that the frame of any toggle link gun is basically a skeleton frame. The side plates on a toggle link gun add no strength or rigidity to the frame, the frame derives all its strength and rigidity from the relatively thin cross sections of the skeletonized frame. This probably contributed to the cracked frame on my friend's 357 Magnum '73. The frame of the Winchester Model 1892 on the other hand is machined from one solid block of steel, it has no separate sideplates, and even though the '92 is a lighter gun than the '73, the frame is stronger. A '92, and also a Marlin model 1894 for that matter, employ solid steel locking lugs to positively lock the bolt in position once the lever is closed. There is no chance of the bolt flying back with an out of battery discharge, the locking lugs have already partially engaged as the bolt gets close to its final locked position. The Marlin 1894 and Winchester Model 1892 are like bank vaults when compared to a toggle link rifle. The '92 is even available chambered for 454 Casul in one version, which develops more pressure than a 44 Magnum.

I have two toggle link rifles, both made by Uberti, a '73 and a Henry, both chambered for 44-40. I only shoot them with Black Powder, but I would not hesitate shooting them with any SAAMI spec smokeless ammo, I would not limit myself to 'cowboy loads'. But I would not put anything stronger in them than SAAMI spec ammo. I also own a little 357 Magnum Marlin Model 1894. It is a very strong little gun and it is a hoot to shoot with 357 Magnum loads.