44 Special bullets - do any work?

[86er]

I have tried to get bullets in the 44 Special to expand as intended.

I am firing into a layer including a leather jacket, flannel shirt, cotton T-shirt and ballistic gel filled mannequin torso. The "target" is 13.5 feet from the muzzle. I've used a carbine and revolver. The revolver velocities run from 810 - 878 fps. The carbine sends them out 1019 -1156 fps. NONE of the bullets I have tried expand like they are supposed to.

Swift A Frame 240gr - the cup fills with material and the bullet does not change shape at all. I tried putting a nylon ball in the hollow point. The nose closes up around the ball, making it look like a roundnosed hardball bullet. The owner at Swift said they would expand at 800 fps and up. I guess he never tried them.

Nosler 200gr Sporting - The exposed lead smears to one side and the jacket cracks up to 3/4 it's length. I filled the hollow tip with a piece of nylon rod and it did the same thing.

Hornady 180 gr XTP - the hollow point caves in instead of expanding outward. The nose is wider than bullet diameter but not because of proper expansion.

Federal Hydra Shok 240gr - these had to be pulled from 44 Mag factory ammo and loaded into 44 spl since the bullets aren't available as components. The jacket opened up exposing the lead cylinder with the post in the middle. Very little lead moved.

I found out David Berkowitz used a 210gr WW load. Winchester doesn't make that bullet anymore. They expanded in people after passing through their clothes. He had a 4" CA revolver so the velocity was within what I'm getting.

Ideally, I would like 8-10" of penetration with proper expansion at ranges up to 50 ft. That doesn't seem to be asking much. Cast bullets are not an option.

What the heck will work out of a 44 SPL for use against people with clothes on? How many folks are carrying a 44 SPL for personal protection and probably will not get the results they are depending on from the bullets?

[Idahoser]

...How many folks are carrying a 44 SPL for personal protection and probably will not get the results they are depending on from the bullets?

several hands go up from this direction...
Try the Silvertips. and Gold Dots.
I realize they're not available for reloading but that might help answer your question, if they work.

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, needless to say these are all designed for the 44 mag, but I would try the Speer gold dots. They should expand at the lower velocities.

And I usually load my 44 Special with hardcast bullets - I figure they are "pre-expanded" and will do just fine if needed.

[Modoc ED]

86er -

I know this isn't the answer you're looking for but the .44 and .45 caliber bullets make a BIG HOLE to begin with.

Take the leather jacket off and try a cloth jacket. When you get right down to it, not too many people wear a leather jacket as daily wear.

Anyway, I'd concentrate on gun handling and accuracy and just kind of smile with the thought of a .44 hole doing the job even without much expansion.

[Hobie]

I'm going to use cast bullets. Ask John Taffin what he uses. He really likes the Charter Bulldogs.

[Nath]

With a bit of bone in the picture, they may tumble all roads too!

Are these new exotics on the ranch 86er

Nath

[rjohns94]

i think you will find the factory Winchester silver tips work very well. At least they have for me in .44, .38

[TedH]

What about the old half-jacket Speer 215 HP? I don't think they make them anymore, but you might find some old stock somewhere.

[JohndeFresno]

...How many folks are carrying a 44 SPL for personal protection and probably will not get the results they are depending on from the bullets?

several hands go up from this direction...
Try the Silvertips. and Gold Dots.
I realize they're not available for reloading but that might help answer your question, if they work.

I just found the Silvertips as a component at Midway - 210 gr. 44's - see:
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseP ... 785***9015***

[Tycer]

I've shot the Speer short barrel 38's into clay and water jugs at 840 fps and gotten great expansion. Put a jacket on it or shoot it into an animal and nada, the nose either fills or folds. Still got the penetration, but no expansion. I've gone to Win white box flat nose for my 380 ACP because of my experiences with the excellent wounds generated by a wide flat meplat. If you don't hit the nervous system, a clean 3/4" hole bleeds out fast. I'm seriously considering wadcutters for my 38's. Need to do some penetration tests first.

[2ndovc]

Federal makes a 200 Gr semi-wadcutter HP that is super accurate from my S&W 21.

I haven't connected with anything larger than a nasty looking wild dog about the size of a sheppard but he dropped in his tracks.

He thought he was going to have my boxer mix for lunch when I changed his mind.

Don't know how it would perform on something larger but I'm sure it would do the job. Just a good load.

jb

[J Miller]

Joe,

May I ask why cast bullets are out? I may have missed something here.

Joe

[Poohgyrr]

Federal makes a 200 Gr semi-wadcutter HP that is super accurate from my S&W 21. jb

Same here, and I also have some of the Speer factory Gold Dots. I haven't shot anything more dangerous than paper and one ground squirrel - but it dropped.

[Jayhawker]

It would look to me like you're trying too hard. I use the Remington bulk packaged 240 grain semi-jacketed hollow point out of my 3" barreled Taurus and get good expansion in coyotes and phone books. I haven't run these over a chronograph, but I can't be pushing them much over 800 fps even with a max load of Unique.

[Sixgun]

Joe,
I occasionally carry a 4" S&W 1950 Target in 44 Spl. Can't help you with factory ammo. I load a 250 grain Lyman/Keith SWC in front of 7.5 grains of Unique--for about 900 fps.

Don't know how they penetrate people, but I've shot a few deer with that load/gun combo and they don't go far. -------------Sixgun

[Modoc ED]

Hell, at the rate ammo's goin up in price, I can hardly afford anymore to shoot jackets, gelatin, phone books, and what-have-you.

With a bullet the size of a .44 (429) and the hole it makes without expansion, just load up and shoot the bastard!!! I think you'll find that he'll leave you alone.

That's my .02¢ and I'll not give you a penny more.

[Sixgun]

With a bullet the size of a .44 (429) and the hole it makes without expansion, just load up and shoot the bastard!!! I think you'll find that he'll leave you alone

Thanks Ed. I just spit a huge wad of berry flavored Skoal all over the screen. ---------------------Sixgun

[Lefty Dude]

I carry WW Silvertips in my Charter BD Pug. And reload a Nosler 200 gr. JHP for general non defense use. I cronographed this load, can't seem to find my log for the load. I am pushing it with 7 grains of Unique, and seems to duplicate the Silvertips.

The Nosler's are nice, I use them for my 44-40's also. In both a 5 1/2" bisley and my 92 Rossi.

[CEMENTHEAD]

86er,
Maybe the Barnes M/LE TAC XP bullets are what your looking for they make a 200 grain bullet for the 44 special. Here's the link.....

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/m ... l-bullets/

Remington 240 grain SJHP or the old 225 grain Speer half jackets if they still make 'em, are what my Dad and uncles used to carry in the 60's and 70's in their 44 Specials.

Hope this helps, Thanks, Tom

[gundownunder]

I'd be pretty impressed by some *** who could keep coming after getting a couple of .43 cal holes through his chest.

How about casting your own with plain lead out of one of those Lyman Devastator molds. Whether the cavity explodes, implodes, or disintegrates its still gonna disrupt a lot of tissue.

[Modoc ED]

With a bullet the size of a .44 (429) and the hole it makes without expansion, just load up and shoot the bastard!!! I think you'll find that he'll leave you alone

Thanks Ed. I just spit a huge wad of berry flavored Skoal all over the screen. ---------------------Sixgun

Sometimes, somethings just gotta be said plain and simple with just the right word for emphasis.

[oldgerboy]

From what I read in the papers, most of the walking pond scum tends to wear a "hoodie"(a rather queer way of saying "hooded sweatshirt") instead of a leather jacket.

I carry a Charter Bulldog with hollow base wadcutters loaded backwards ... darn fine hollow point. They may not penetrate as far as you would like but they sure do expand in a small deer. Actually, they do tend to break up some but will not pass through and took the deer down with one shot in the vitals. I had fired two extra through the rib cage out of curiosity to get the above info.

[marlinman93]

I've had good expansion with my cast bullets using pure lead in a 200 gr. SWC design.

[buckeyeshooter]

Not what you asked but I carry the 180 grain federals in magnum version--- they expand real well at speed!

[John in MS]

Speer offers a 200 gr. Gold Dot bullet (as components) made just for the .44 Special, which I believe must be designed to perform at lower velocity. I would try those, myself.

John

[Mike Rintoul]

Joe:

If you want to duplicate the 230 gr 45 ACP load as far as penetration, velocity and bullet weight, give me a call. I have a guy in PA that makes me 240 or 250 gr copper bullets that are pre-serrated and have spiral grooves along the length to match the barrel twist. They have some resemblence to the Barnes X, and we can choose 4, 6 or 8 petals. I can get them going 900 fps or close to it out of your Charter Bulldog, I know since I have one. I guarantee they'll penetrate and expand much along the lines of the FBI testing protocal. If you want to reload you will do alright with the Gold Dot bullets, but you'll never get the weight or speed to obtain the overall power level of your 40 S&W or a 45 ACP load with those.

Mike Rintoul
Grizzly Cartridge Ammunition Company
Rainier, OR
(503) 556-3006

[Paladin]

I have killed 3 deer with a Marlin trapper in .44 with the Blazer Gold Dot .44 SPL most accurate of all loads tested. My normal carry load in a 44 revolver as we are not authorized to use reloads when it might be used for work.

[Tristan]

I have in mind to try some of the Rainier Ballistics 200 or 240gr. HP's - they're swaged out of soft lead and then a hex-shaped hp is formed in a second operation after plating with copper.

When I get a round-tuit I'll let ya'll know how it turned out.

- Tristan

[Travis Morgan]

With a bullet the size of a .44 (429) and the hole it makes without expansion, just load up and shoot the bastard!!! I think you'll find that he'll leave you alone

Thanks Ed. I just spit a huge wad of berry flavored Skoal all over the screen. ---------------------Sixgun

Sometimes, somethings just gotta be said plain and simple with just the right word for emphasis.

There's no replacement for displacement. Ever heard of a 20 mm needing a hollowpoint?

[SJPrice]

I like the Barnes 200 Grain DPX for my 44 Special carry load. I load them to 900 fps out of my 396 Night Guard Smith. Tried them out on several feral hogs. They penetrate 8 to 10 inches, expand to over .75 inches and hold together exceptionally well. Recovered weight is always within a few grains of 200.

[2 dogs]

JT's "Book of the 44" has a review of current available factory 44 special loads along with lots of other information. Its the best book on 44's available.

[Warhawk]

How about the Hornady #1118 .430 44 CAL 240 GR SWC HP

https://www.hornady.com

[Lefty Dude]

JT's "Book of the 44" has a review of current available factory 44 special loads along with lots of other information. Its the best book on 44's available.

Got me a signed copy, excellent read, and great information.

[thornblom]

thanks

[Lefty Dude]

I also use the Laser-cast 240 gr. SWC .431" W/ Unique powder, makes for a very consistant and accurate load. I use 44 mag cases and shoot these in my 92 Rossi 44. This same load & bullet I use in a 5 1/2" 44-40 Jager Bisley. I resize the 240SWC .431" to .429" and use Winchester 44-40 brass.