OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
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OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
The .357 leveraction thread got me to pondering a dilemma I had a couple of months ago and never really worked out for myself.
I enjoy single shots, they're great fun to me. I'd like one in .357 and .44M. I have a Handi-Rifle in .22H, an unused G2 Contender carbine frame and a spare Martini Cadet as base weapons.
I like the lock up of the TC, it's like a bank vault but I can get both barrels and have them fitted to the Handi-Rifle for the cost of one TC barrel but the TC is a plug and play proposition. The Cadet would be a major build to do the way I want but only in .357 since the barrel shank gets a little thin when going to .44 (or so I've been told and IIRC DeHaas does not recommend that conversion). In reality, I'd probably trade the spare Cadet for one already converted but that's a whole 'nuther kettle of fish.
Need doesn't have a thing to do with this, pure want. I already have a Marlin 1894C in .357 and a Win 94AE in .44 so I already have both calibers covered in carbine form.
I'd like some input from those who've already done this dance, given it thought or just feel like chiming in with their opinion (see, no one gets left behind! ).
Thanks!
I enjoy single shots, they're great fun to me. I'd like one in .357 and .44M. I have a Handi-Rifle in .22H, an unused G2 Contender carbine frame and a spare Martini Cadet as base weapons.
I like the lock up of the TC, it's like a bank vault but I can get both barrels and have them fitted to the Handi-Rifle for the cost of one TC barrel but the TC is a plug and play proposition. The Cadet would be a major build to do the way I want but only in .357 since the barrel shank gets a little thin when going to .44 (or so I've been told and IIRC DeHaas does not recommend that conversion). In reality, I'd probably trade the spare Cadet for one already converted but that's a whole 'nuther kettle of fish.
Need doesn't have a thing to do with this, pure want. I already have a Marlin 1894C in .357 and a Win 94AE in .44 so I already have both calibers covered in carbine form.
I'd like some input from those who've already done this dance, given it thought or just feel like chiming in with their opinion (see, no one gets left behind! ).
Thanks!
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Over on Graybeards outdoor forums the hot set up is to get the factory .357 barrel and then have it reamed out to a .357 Maximum. Some say they would sell everything else they have and still keep that one.
I have a Handi in .30-30 and one in .223. I'm about to get one in .22 LR and get a spare Magnum barrel for that one as well.
The biggest problem with them is that they're addicting.
FWIW there was a test done some time back pitting a T/C Hornet against a Handi Hornet and the Handi came out the winner offering a better rifle for less money.
I have a Handi in .30-30 and one in .223. I'm about to get one in .22 LR and get a spare Magnum barrel for that one as well.
The biggest problem with them is that they're addicting.
FWIW there was a test done some time back pitting a T/C Hornet against a Handi Hornet and the Handi came out the winner offering a better rifle for less money.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Probably not the answer you're looking for but I own both a Winchester 94AE Trapper, and a single shot stainless steel Rossi rifle both in 357 Magnum, and as much as I love my leverguns I prefer to shoot my single shot 357 mag, can't explain it but just love single shots. I also sold my Mini-14 and bought a stainless steel Handi-Rifle in .223 with no regrets, single shots are just plain fun to shoot. A Cadet in 357 mag sounds like great fun.
BEFORE (23" barrel, painted stock)
AFTER (16.25" barrel oiled stock, Williams Peep Sight)
BEFORE (23" barrel, painted stock)
AFTER (16.25" barrel oiled stock, Williams Peep Sight)
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
This is something I would like to do. Will the action really handle the Maximum? It's pretty hot, but the case head is small; I've not seen any write-ups on this conversion.Rusty wrote:...get the factory .357 barrel and then have it reamed out to a .357 Maximum
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Alexis de Tocqueville
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Don't forget our old friend AK Church and his six barreled Handi-Rifle. He has one in .357 Magnum and it is one dandy little rifle.
You ought to see if you can scrounge up his article on the Handi-Rifle set. It might well provide food for thought.
Here are links to the AK Church Handi-Rifle Saga:
http://www.milesfortis.us/church/akc02.htm
http://www.milesfortis.us/church/akc08.htm
http://www.milesfortis.us/church/akc03.htm
You ought to see if you can scrounge up his article on the Handi-Rifle set. It might well provide food for thought.
Here are links to the AK Church Handi-Rifle Saga:
http://www.milesfortis.us/church/akc02.htm
http://www.milesfortis.us/church/akc08.htm
http://www.milesfortis.us/church/akc03.htm
Doc Hudson, OOF, IOFA, CSA, F&AM, SCV, NRA LIFE MEMBER, IDJRS #002, IDCT, King of Typoists
Amici familia ab lectio est
UNITE!
Amici familia ab lectio est
UNITE!
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Let's see - you have an unused G2 frame and you like the lock-up - sounds to me you know the correct path you should take...
I have the org. Contender - in rifle form - in 223. This single shot hase taken its fiar share of goundhogs over the years. I sold off my pistol barrels and only kept the Contender in rifle form.
good luck and have fun with it...
I have the org. Contender - in rifle form - in 223. This single shot hase taken its fiar share of goundhogs over the years. I sold off my pistol barrels and only kept the Contender in rifle form.
good luck and have fun with it...
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid" - Han Solo, Star Wars...
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
If a gun will handle the .223 Rem it will handle the .357 Max. Same pressures and case head size. The .357 Maximum is a great cartridge.
Having the same desires, I went with the Contender. I'd been wanting to do that since seeing an ad for Contender Carbine barrels in some shooting mag back in 1977 or so. They are MUCH lighter than the Handi-rifle and, as you noted, plug-n-play.
There is some cost advantage to the Handi-rifle. What has kept me from getting one, although I still love my H&R Topper shotgun, is the plastic trigger guard. It just doesn't seem right on a rifle.
I've always wanted a Martini but they have to be managed in the hunting fields completely differently than a firearm with a safety. Some don't mind, I think I might.
Doc, thanks for those links to AK's Handi story. Neat!
Having the same desires, I went with the Contender. I'd been wanting to do that since seeing an ad for Contender Carbine barrels in some shooting mag back in 1977 or so. They are MUCH lighter than the Handi-rifle and, as you noted, plug-n-play.
There is some cost advantage to the Handi-rifle. What has kept me from getting one, although I still love my H&R Topper shotgun, is the plastic trigger guard. It just doesn't seem right on a rifle.
I've always wanted a Martini but they have to be managed in the hunting fields completely differently than a firearm with a safety. Some don't mind, I think I might.
Doc, thanks for those links to AK's Handi story. Neat!
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
It always struck me as odd that a hammerless striker fired military rifle would have no safety.
Then again, more than 50 years later, the French adopted a bolt-action rifle with no safety.
Then again, more than 50 years later, the French adopted a bolt-action rifle with no safety.
Doc Hudson, OOF, IOFA, CSA, F&AM, SCV, NRA LIFE MEMBER, IDJRS #002, IDCT, King of Typoists
Amici familia ab lectio est
UNITE!
Amici familia ab lectio est
UNITE!
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Those French... I don't think there's a safety on the MAS 49 (or 49/56) either.Doc Hudson wrote:It always struck me as odd that a hammerless striker fired military rifle would have no safety.
Then again, more than 50 years later, the French adopted a bolt-action rifle with no safety.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
What would the recoil be like from a 44 mag handi rifle for my slightly undersized 13 y.o. son? I'm thinking about one of these for him for next years deer season. He used my .357 Marlin this year with great success.
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Having been a wimpy little 13 year-old, I'd let him stay with the .357 Mag. Heck I carried a .357 Mag today!
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
When carrying a Martini (Cadet) in the field I chamber a cartridge but leave the action open. On seating the round in the chamber the breechblock rises over the lower part of the rim holding it in place. When you want to shoot simply raise the finger lever. Pretty much SOP for Martini hunters, I believe.
Sportco added a trigger block safety to their sporterised Cadets - and removed the cocking indicator
Sportco added a trigger block safety to their sporterised Cadets - and removed the cocking indicator
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Hobie, he already thinks the 357 is his, I'm just trying to get it back
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
"This is something I would like to do. Will the action really handle the Maximum? It's pretty hot, but the case head is small; I've not seen any write-ups on this conversion."
The H&R was at one time factory chambered in .357 Maximum. I have one. The action is factory chambered for much more powerful cartridges.
The H&R was at one time factory chambered in .357 Maximum. I have one. The action is factory chambered for much more powerful cartridges.
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
I have a Handi in .308 my next barrel for it will be .357 and it will get reamed out to Max.
Nemhed the Handis are light guns. But I used to be a wimpy 13 year old and loved shooting my dads 270 Win light weight. I was maybe 130lbs at the time. Get it and see what he thinks if he dont like it guess what you now have a new 44
Nemhed the Handis are light guns. But I used to be a wimpy 13 year old and loved shooting my dads 270 Win light weight. I was maybe 130lbs at the time. Get it and see what he thinks if he dont like it guess what you now have a new 44
Jeremy
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
GySgt USMC Ret
To err is human, To forgive is devine, Neither of which is Marine Corps policy
Semper Fidelis
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
The Handi is chambered for a number of powerful rounds. One that seems to giving some people problems right now is the .500 S&W.
Here's a short thread on the Max. conversion http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/ ... 635.0.html
from Graybeards outdoor forums.
I'm thinking of getting another couple of Handis myself. I'm looking at a .22 LR and a .22 Mag. For the price of the rimfires it's almost not worth the shipping costs to have another barrel put on them.
NEF will fit extra barrels on your frame as long as certain rules are followed. If you buy a new one It won't be a problem. It's just stuff like they won't put a rifle barrel on a shotgun frame and they won't fit a barrel that has someone else's name on it, as in no H&R. Rimfires only go on rimfires and centerfires only go on centerfires because the firing pin is different.
IMHO the Handi is the best bang for your buck on the market today.
Here's a short thread on the Max. conversion http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/ ... 635.0.html
from Graybeards outdoor forums.
I'm thinking of getting another couple of Handis myself. I'm looking at a .22 LR and a .22 Mag. For the price of the rimfires it's almost not worth the shipping costs to have another barrel put on them.
NEF will fit extra barrels on your frame as long as certain rules are followed. If you buy a new one It won't be a problem. It's just stuff like they won't put a rifle barrel on a shotgun frame and they won't fit a barrel that has someone else's name on it, as in no H&R. Rimfires only go on rimfires and centerfires only go on centerfires because the firing pin is different.
IMHO the Handi is the best bang for your buck on the market today.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Isiah 55:8&9
It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Ganji's rifle is very interesting surprised we haven't seen something like that commercially.
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
If the Handi-Rifle will handle .308 Win, .30-'06 Spfld, and .270 Win, a .357 Maximum won't hurt it.BAGTIC wrote:"This is something I would like to do. Will the action really handle the Maximum? It's pretty hot, but the case head is small; I've not seen any write-ups on this conversion."
The H&R was at one time factory chambered in .357 Maximum. I have one. The action is factory chambered for much more powerful cartridges.
Doc Hudson, OOF, IOFA, CSA, F&AM, SCV, NRA LIFE MEMBER, IDJRS #002, IDCT, King of Typoists
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UNITE!
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UNITE!
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Thanks everyone!
I'll address a couple of points here for further discussion.
Weight isn't that big of a concern for me. I don't carry them afield for hours at a time and I prefer a heavier carbine anyway.
Cost IS a big concern for me. Like I said, I can get two barrels and have them fitted for about the same cost as one TC barrel. Last time I hit fleabay, GB, etc for TC stuff, I found used barrels were going for almost the same price as new ones. The advantage of the TC (IMO) is a wider range of "unusual" calibers than the Handi.
The Max conversion sounds interesting and I would imagine you can still fire .357 Mag? I know nothing about the Max (yet ) but it sounds like the Mag becomes the Special in comparision.
I'll hit the AK Church links after getting home. Goofball firewall lets me get here but no other "fun" site, including knife sites.
Ji, I like it...
I'll address a couple of points here for further discussion.
Weight isn't that big of a concern for me. I don't carry them afield for hours at a time and I prefer a heavier carbine anyway.
Cost IS a big concern for me. Like I said, I can get two barrels and have them fitted for about the same cost as one TC barrel. Last time I hit fleabay, GB, etc for TC stuff, I found used barrels were going for almost the same price as new ones. The advantage of the TC (IMO) is a wider range of "unusual" calibers than the Handi.
The Max conversion sounds interesting and I would imagine you can still fire .357 Mag? I know nothing about the Max (yet ) but it sounds like the Mag becomes the Special in comparision.
I'll hit the AK Church links after getting home. Goofball firewall lets me get here but no other "fun" site, including knife sites.
Ji, I like it...
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
- Old Ironsights
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
You didn't say if your COntender is the Pistol or Rifle variant.
My 2p:
If your TC is the Pistol variant then do that one. IMO the flexability is worth the extra $$$.
I would LOVE to have a TC Pistol, with detatchable shoulder stock, in .45 Colt.
My 2p:
If your TC is the Pistol variant then do that one. IMO the flexability is worth the extra $$$.
I would LOVE to have a TC Pistol, with detatchable shoulder stock, in .45 Colt.
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מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Follow the link in my first response and you can learn something about the .357 Maximum in the single-shot...awp101 wrote:Thanks everyone!
I'll address a couple of points here for further discussion.
Weight isn't that big of a concern for me. I don't carry them afield for hours at a time and I prefer a heavier carbine anyway.
Cost IS a big concern for me. Like I said, I can get two barrels and have them fitted for about the same cost as one TC barrel. Last time I hit fleabay, GB, etc for TC stuff, I found used barrels were going for almost the same price as new ones. The advantage of the TC (IMO) is a wider range of "unusual" calibers than the Handi.
The Max conversion sounds interesting and I would imagine you can still fire .357 Mag? I know nothing about the Max (yet ) but it sounds like the Mag becomes the Special in comparision.
I'll hit the AK Church links after getting home. Goofball firewall lets me get here but no other "fun" site, including knife sites.
Ji, I like it...
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Thanks to all who responded to my question. I didn't know the .357 Max was ever a factory chambering in the Handi. I need to follow the link in Hobie's response, too.
A man's admiration for absolute government is proportionate to the contempt he feels for those around him.
Alexis de Tocqueville
Alexis de Tocqueville
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
I have one of each.Old Ironsights wrote:You didn't say if your COntender is the Pistol or Rifle variant.
Hobie I finally got to read your link, good info! Thanks! Same for the AK Church links whoever posted them...
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
i had the handi rifle in .44 mag and it had LOTS of recoil! i was amazed at how much! in fact it was so disconcerting (to me, anyway), i got rid of it.
have you ever tried to operate the "safety" of a moisin nagant? or a carcano carbine? good luck!
i do like single shot rifles, though. i have an NEF sportster with 3 barrels that i like and they are very accurate. i also have several BA rifles i converted to single shot by way of magazine blocks/adapters.
the idea of the single shot rifle is probably the most accurate as when the machining process is done correctly and the bore, rifling and chamber are all done properly, it's one solid, in line barrel. then the lockup/headspacing becomes an issue. it has to be done in a very precise fashion or it can become an accuracy robber.
have you ever tried to operate the "safety" of a moisin nagant? or a carcano carbine? good luck!
i do like single shot rifles, though. i have an NEF sportster with 3 barrels that i like and they are very accurate. i also have several BA rifles i converted to single shot by way of magazine blocks/adapters.
the idea of the single shot rifle is probably the most accurate as when the machining process is done correctly and the bore, rifling and chamber are all done properly, it's one solid, in line barrel. then the lockup/headspacing becomes an issue. it has to be done in a very precise fashion or it can become an accuracy robber.
if you think you're influencial, try telling someone else's dog what to do---will rogers
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
As bad as touching off a 20ga Field Load out of one? I did that to The Boy by mistake when he was about 8-9...donw wrote:i had the handi rifle in .44 mag and it had LOTS of recoil! i was amazed at how much! in fact it was so disconcerting (to me, anyway), i got rid of it.
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
- Buck Elliott
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Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
OR ---- you could ream the thing to .356 Winchester and be done with it...
If brass gets to be a problem, you can form them from .444 Marlin cases.
If brass gets to be a problem, you can form them from .444 Marlin cases.
Regards
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Buck
Life has a way of making the foreseeable that which never happens, and the unforeseeable, that which your life becomes...
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Recoil: Handi's do give you some recoil its partly the stock design and partly the weight .
What they will handle: Handis with the new ( I beleive its called the GR2 frame ) will handle anything short of big magnums . They have been factory made in 35 Whelen and I have shot them they hod up fine .
I have one frame tha has barrels in 223;30-30;30-06; 45-70; and 12ga 3.5 . I change barrels a lot and shoot them all alot the frame is in fine shape . this past weeknd I shot 12 rounds of 45-70 then switched to the 30-30 barrel fired 24 rounds then switched to the 06 barrel fired 6 rounds ( 06 barrel is now set for up comming deer season )
I did actually fire the 12 guage with a 3.5 shell once O N C E !!!!! I am NOt recoil sesntive BUT thats a real killer I wont fire it again with those loads
What they will handle: Handis with the new ( I beleive its called the GR2 frame ) will handle anything short of big magnums . They have been factory made in 35 Whelen and I have shot them they hod up fine .
I have one frame tha has barrels in 223;30-30;30-06; 45-70; and 12ga 3.5 . I change barrels a lot and shoot them all alot the frame is in fine shape . this past weeknd I shot 12 rounds of 45-70 then switched to the 30-30 barrel fired 24 rounds then switched to the 06 barrel fired 6 rounds ( 06 barrel is now set for up comming deer season )
I did actually fire the 12 guage with a 3.5 shell once O N C E !!!!! I am NOt recoil sesntive BUT thats a real killer I wont fire it again with those loads
The right way is always the hardest. It's like the law of nature , water always takes the path of least resistence...... That's why we get crooked rivers and crooked men . TR Theodore the Great
Re: OT - Single shot carbine/rifle musings
Sorry edits Frame is the SB2 not gr2 DO NOT try to convert the older 158 frame to 357 max
The right way is always the hardest. It's like the law of nature , water always takes the path of least resistence...... That's why we get crooked rivers and crooked men . TR Theodore the Great