POLITICS -Joe the Plumber Put Down

[Hobie]

If they are right, denigrate and demean them... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j66LUroXUck

[Blaine]

Joe was on air this morning.......America should recognize that HE is America, not the elite snob Socialist Rich......

[Premo]

'Joe the Plumber' says he has no plumbing license
By JOHN SEEWER (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
October 16, 2008 12:53 PM EDT
HOLLAND, Ohio - Joe the Plumber said Thursday he doesn't have a license and doesn't need one.

Joe Wurzelbacher, better known as "Joe the Plumber," the nickname Republican John McCain bestowed on him during Wednesday's presidential debate launching him to national fame, said he works for a small plumbing company that does residential work. Because he works for someone else, he doesn't need a license, he said.

Wurzelbacher was cited by the Republican presidential candidate as an example of someone who wants to buy a plumbing business but would be hurt by Democrat Barack Obama's tax plans. Wurzelbacher said he was surprised that his name was mentioned so many other times.

"That bothered me. I wished that they had talked more about issues that are important to Americans," he told reporters gathered outside his home.

Wurzelbacher, 34, said he doesn't have a good plan put together on how he would buy Newell Plumbing and Heating, where he has worked for six years.

"There's a lot I've got to learn," he said.

Wurzelbacher said Obama's tax plan wouldn't affect him right now because he does not hit the $250,000-a-year threshold for higher taxes. "But I hope someday I'll make that," he said.

"If you believed (Obama), I'd be receiving his tax cuts," Wurzelbacher said. "But I don't look at it that way. He'd still be hurting others."

As he leaned against the Dodge Durango sport utility vehicle parked in his driveway Thursday morning, Wurzelbacher indicated to reporters who crowded around that he was a conservative, a fan of the military and McCain. He said meeting McCain would be an honor but said he hadn't been contacted by the Republican campaign.

Still, the plumber wouldn't say who he was voting for and brushed off a question about whether he could influence the election or other voters.

"I don't have a lot of pull. It's not like I'm Matt Damon," Wurzelbacher said.

"I just hope I'm not making too much of a fool of myself," he added.

Wurzelbacher became an accidental focal point of the debates because at a gathering in Toledo on Sunday, he told Obama that he was preparing to buy the plumbing company, which earns more than $250,000 a year, and said: "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"

Obama said that under his proposal taxes on any revenue from $250,000 on down would stay the same, but that amounts above that level would be subject to a 39 percent tax, instead of the current 36 percent rate.

McCain then used the incident to highlight his own economic plan, which would extend the tax cuts of President George W. Bush and lower the tax rate on capital gains.

[JohndeFresno]

'Joe the Plumber' says he has no plumbing license
By JOHN SEEWER (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
October 16, 2008 12:53 PM EDT
HOLLAND, Ohio - Joe the Plumber said Thursday he doesn't have a license and doesn't need one.

Joe Wurzelbacher, better known as "Joe the Plumber," the nickname Republican John McCain bestowed on him...[snip] ...Because he works for someone else, he doesn't need a license, he said.

[snip]

Wurzelbacher said Obama's tax plan wouldn't affect him right now because he does not hit the $250,000-a-year threshold for higher taxes. "But I hope someday I'll make that," he said.

That is precisely the main problem with Democrats, and certainly with liberals. They are short-sighted, worrying about the moment and what Big Brother can do for their own immediate situation - not how the programs will totally destroy our country, bankrupt us morally and financially, and leave that sorry legacy for many generations to come (should we survive as a nation at all under O'Bama).

It's NOT about what Mr. Wurzelbacher - and many like him - are doing on October 16, 2008. How about next week, next month, or next year when he IS in a position to own a company? What if Mama Wurzelbacher dies tomorrow and leaves him a nest egg to start a business? If we are cursed with O'Bama for the next four or eight years, you can pretty well kiss emerging free enterprise good-bye.

At the same time, what if your friends, neighbors and possibly relatives in blue are ordered to serve search warrants on your homes to confiscate your guns? That baloney about "You can't have my firearm unless you pry it from my cold, dead fingers" is a lot of foolish bravado. At least for those of us who are of sound mind.

What am I going to do, for instance, if O'Bama takes over with the entrenched Pelosi Congress, and my son-in-law is ordered to serve one of the search and seizure warrants like they did in Los Angeles for the .50 caliber gun owners? Of course, I won't get into a shooting situation with anybody, especially family or friends - unless my life or that of my family is in serious, imminent danger. And if my guns are hidden somewhere else, I won't be able to get to them if I need them - since I live in a city!

[1886]

Where was this guy a month ago? He seems to articulate the tax issue better than McCain. It would seem that folks can relate to him. You know that he is connecting by just how much the "savior's" camp is going after him. He is going to get one whale of a bumby before this is all over. Better hope there are no skeletons in his closet. A tax audit will be in order soon. 1886.

[Tycer]

John the Plumber for President!

[Hobie]

By JOHN SEEWER (Associated Press Writer)

Oh my, doesn't anyone see this?

[Hobie]

my son-in-law is ordered to serve one of the search and seizure warrants like they did in Los Angeles for the .50 caliber gun owners? Of course, I won't get into a shooting situation with anybody, especially family or friends

John,

With all do respect and in the interest of sane conversation on the subject I have one question. Would a friend of yours participate is service of such warrants?

[Premo]

Joe the plumber is a fraud. He is not a licensed plumber with the State of Ohio or the City of Toledo. Is not in the financial position to buy the company he works for and does not have taxable income of more than 250K.

Based on the city of Toledo’s municipal ordinance’s all plumbers, apprentices through journeyman must hold a city license to work there. “All journeymen and apprentices working in the City of Toledo must hold a City of Toledo license in their respective trade.”

Toledo Municipal Code, chapter 1311.05 (c) states:
“(c)
(1) "Plumbing contractor" or "hydronics contractor" means one who has the ability to design and lay out a complete plumbing system including waste, vent and potable water lines and/or hydronic heating system, for all occupancies governed by the Ohio Building Code and the Toledo Municipal Code and shall possess the following qualifications:
A. The applicant shall be licensed and provide a copy of a valid certificate of qualification from the Ohio Construction Industry Examining Board prior to obtaining a certificate of registration from the City.
(2) "Plumber journeyman" or "hydronics journeyman" means one who:
A. Has learned the trade of plumbing or hydronics and must have completed a recognized apprenticeship course approved by the Board of Control or must submit documentation to the Commissioner of Building Inspection that the applicant successfully completed a training program equivalent to a recognized apprenticeship program approved by the Board of Control under the direct control of a plumbing contractor or hydronics contractor, who is presently certified to perform work within the City; or
B. Presents documentation to the Commissioner of Building Inspection that the applicant was employed as a plumber journeyman in a governmental jurisdiction for a period of time equivalent to that required for the approved apprenticeship program as set forth in subsection (c)(2)A. hereof.
(3) "Plumber apprentice" or "hydronics apprentice" means one who, as principal occupation, is enrolled in an apprenticeship course approved by the Board of Control or is engaged in a recognized apprenticeship program approved by the Board of Control under the direct supervision of a plumbing contractor or hydronics contractor who is presently certified to perform work within the City.”

Joe the plumber is a fraud.

[meanc]

Joe the plumber is a fraud. He is not a licensed plumber with the State of Ohio or the City of Toledo. Is not in the financial position to buy the company he works for and does not have taxable income of more than 250K.

I've got a question for you...

Did "Joe the Plumber" say he was a licensed plumber?

I think not. He stated he was interested in buying a business.

Did Obama state he would raise taxes on companies making $250k or more?

I think so.

So there is no fraud, just an individual who brought up a very good point about the stupidity of Obama's taxation.

[JohndeFresno]

my son-in-law is ordered to serve one of the search and seizure warrants like they did in Los Angeles for the .50 caliber gun owners? Of course, I won't get into a shooting situation with anybody, especially family or friends

John,

With all do respect and in the interest of sane conversation on the subject I have one question. Would a friend of yours participate is service of such warrants?

Hobie,

I don't know. I know that I would not - I have been similarly tested before; but that is another story. I have friends who have done some very brave things. I also have friends who have disappointed me, weenied out and not always done the right thing. Hobie, I am pretty sure that if you do some soul searching, your answer will be the same. Certainly you know as a brother that nobody is perfect.

Think, for instance, about this: You are a New Orleans police officer. Forgetting about the order to disarm honest citizens - which I can never forgive them as a unit for - think about their orders to show up for work, leave THEIR wives and family (perhaps babies) behind. Their families were left to the ravages of the storm and the brigands, and they were ordered to try to help where ordered. I can see the tremendous conflict, when their responsibility is to their city as a sworn job, but their responsibility is to their family as head of household. Since my wife has some extreme disabilities, I have struggled with what I would do if so ordered under similar circumstances; so I am very circumspect about the cops deserting their posts. Again, I have nothing good to say about those who disarmed the populace, however.

Now along these lines, I have many friends and associates who are peace officers, and several relatives actually in my own town who are involved in law enforcement. Let's see - family is largely law enforcement. I have been in law enforcement 39 years and counting. And above and beyond all of that - I'm a practicing Christian. Nope - I wouldn't open fire on the boys in blue who were serving a warrant, even if I were to try to delay them and say some very unfriendly things.

So the relevant question, Hobie - how many of the reasonable folks do you REALLY think would use any means (implying deadly force) to prevent cops or other officials who are carrying out orders to search a home and confiscate their guns - as long as the officers are not immediately placing somebody's life in danger? And, despite my being the Man of Steel, how long do you think I could hold them off with my fists if they were serving a warrant?

This is why the citizens of Boston were so easily disarmed by British troops - who then killed several others standing in a group who merely ignored an order to put their rifles in a pile, resulting in what is now known as the Boston Massacre. Oh, yeah - and the British controlled newspapers, like the liberal and leftist controlled newspapers in our present time, distorted the facts and laid the blame on the Colonists, of course. The Brits went house to house, and most citizens - even though they knew that their rights were being trampled - could not honestly justify just shooting them in cold blood.

After that was Lexington and Concord, and an open war. It might not be too far a stretch to think that we might eventually have the same thing, which might be one of the reasons why we now have mainstream Army units being assigned and trained specifically as urban "anti-terrorist" units. If I see this as a very real possibility, I must assume that the bright boys in the Pentagon think tanks have also seen these possibilities.

But I think that we frequently get carried away with "the moment" when we get together with others of like mind, which gives rise of all of that talk - "They wouldn't take MY gun away, by G--!" That's great campfire talk, but if you think about it, it's really venting and/or a bunch of false machismo and pure Bravo Sierra. Unless we have a screw loose, we won't start popping off any government official who knocks at the door. At least, not unless we declare war on our own government.

It's ironic - I for one actually volunteered for Viet Nam and left college to go over there and literally take out the godless Communists in Southeast Asia who threatened to poison the world. Now the Socialists - espousing many of the same godless ideology that I excercised extreme sanctions against - are actually in positions of ultimate power in my own country, and I am helpless to do anything about it except talk and vote. Time for wisdom and prayer, Hobie.

[Old Time Hunter]

Joe the Plumber never even said he was a "plumber", all he said was that he worked for a plumber. Where is the fraud in that?

[Lastmohecken]

Well, all I have to say is if it actually came down to some sort of enforcement group going around house to house, collecting guns and other property, then I hope that a good majority of us, has the guts to fire on them, instead of just rolling over and giving up. In my neck of the woods, I believe that would be the case, but nation wide, I have my doubts.

[bunklocoempire]

Can't wait till Joe has to deal with hyper-inflation. Joe aint gonna give a rip about taxes when his teflon tape goes for $10 a roll.

Naw, could never happen.


Bunkloco

[Tennessee Hayre]

Why is everyone dogging "Old Joe" Look I own a small business. "A Metal Fabrication Works" have done so for 13 years. So when I bid on and win a contract say from the state of Tennessee I need a license as the business owner and other things. if I have hired help (JOE THE WELDER) he don't. But I may want to sale my business to a worker who works for me as a welder and yes if he welds he is a welder, or plumber in Joe's case, You dont always need alot of money unless you have lots of equipment. Most Welders, Plumber, etc have a shop and a few trucks and not so much equipment. You most of the time are buying the name to keep the same customers and so on. SO "To some because Joe is only an adverage person working for some one as a helper in the plumbing business they think he is just spewing words and having a pipe dream in owning his own buniness. All Joe needs to do is Go to night school, pass his test, go get certified with that state by taking their test or something like that and WALA he is set. You still need insurance and so on but I won't get into all of that. I believe thats what Joe was trying to say.(In so many words) Yes a small fry can own a small business and they don't have to have alot of money but you must have the drive and passion because it is not for everyone. Now if you watch the MEDIA since he did not go to a big school somwhere in New York or something and is not a Millionair he just (Joe The dreamer) All the guy did was ask a question and now he is a man not telling the truth and is really just a nobody (White Trash) or something like that.

[AJMD429]

With all do respect and in the interest of sane conversation on the subject I have one question. Would a friend of yours participate is service of such warrants?

I don't think the dispatch necessarily says "Hey, go out and raid old man Jones' house - he has a couple Remington's we've just banned, and we need to take him out..." It is likelier to say "Resident at 123 Maple St. wanted for dealing in illegal machine guns, and last status 'armed and dangerous' - shot and killed neighbor's child who stumbled into drug deal. Also suspected of child pornography and possibly linked to terrorist network. Use extreme caution, and shoot to kill if necessary."

After the bodies are sorted out, and the loot distributed, contraband can be planted on whoever needs to be 'guilty' and all will shake their heads in disbelief "but he seemed like such a NICE guy" - the community will go on about their lives and be thankful that such a good SWAT team took out another bad guy. Six months later the back page of the paper might have a paragraph explaining that in retrospect no documentation of illegal activities was obtained, and it was all just an unfortunate "incident" leaving many unanswered questions.

That's the way it has happened in other nations who 'go bad' and I can't see any reason to suspect it would go otherwise in ours. Ever since Kenyon Ballew in the 1960's, through the guy in California who was killed in a fake 'drug raid' so the state could seize his property and annex it to a park, we've seen shades of this in our own nation. If anything, our "news media" is far less of a watchdog than a lapdog, and our local LEO's always seem to bow down to and worship any federal alphabet agency who comes to town to prey on the locals.

[Ysabel Kid]

Joe the Biden is a turd, plain and simple. The combined economic knowledge of Biden and Obama wouldn't fill a thimble. The USA has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, and in their quest to "punish the rich" and "appeal to the working man" they want to raise it further - driving away investment, growth and jobs for the very people they supposedly care about.

Obama let his true intentions slip with "Joe the Plumber" - it is about socialism and income redistribution - and their hatred of America and our economic system.

It is sickening that they have fooled so many people...

[JerryB]

Hey Doctor AJMD429I am glad to see that someone still remembers the Kenyon Ballew deal that got covered up. I reckon if we lose in november that will start all over again. I won't be reaching for a cap and ball pistol like he did.

[JohndeFresno]

Obama let his true intentions slip with "Joe the Plumber" - it is about socialism and income redistribution - and their hatred of America and our economic system.

It is sickening that they have fooled so many people...

Right on. I'm afraid that I started sliding off track on this thread; thanks for bringing it back into focus, IzKid.

[Hobie]

Joe the plumber is a fraud. He is not a licensed plumber with the State of Ohio or the City of Toledo. Is not in the financial position to buy the company he works for and does not have taxable income of more than 250K.

Based on the city of Toledo’s municipal ordinance’s all plumbers, apprentices through journeyman must hold a city license to work there. “All journeymen and apprentices working in the City of Toledo must hold a City of Toledo license in their respective trade.”

Toledo Municipal Code, chapter 1311.05 (c) states:
“(c)
(1) "Plumbing contractor" or "hydronics contractor" means one who has the ability to design and lay out a complete plumbing system including waste, vent and potable water lines and/or hydronic heating system, for all occupancies governed by the Ohio Building Code and the Toledo Municipal Code and shall possess the following qualifications:
A. The applicant shall be licensed and provide a copy of a valid certificate of qualification from the Ohio Construction Industry Examining Board prior to obtaining a certificate of registration from the City.
(2) "Plumber journeyman" or "hydronics journeyman" means one who:
A. Has learned the trade of plumbing or hydronics and must have completed a recognized apprenticeship course approved by the Board of Control or must submit documentation to the Commissioner of Building Inspection that the applicant successfully completed a training program equivalent to a recognized apprenticeship program approved by the Board of Control under the direct control of a plumbing contractor or hydronics contractor, who is presently certified to perform work within the City; or
B. Presents documentation to the Commissioner of Building Inspection that the applicant was employed as a plumber journeyman in a governmental jurisdiction for a period of time equivalent to that required for the approved apprenticeship program as set forth in subsection (c)(2)A. hereof.
(3) "Plumber apprentice" or "hydronics apprentice" means one who, as principal occupation, is enrolled in an apprenticeship course approved by the Board of Control or is engaged in a recognized apprenticeship program approved by the Board of Control under the direct supervision of a plumbing contractor or hydronics contractor who is presently certified to perform work within the City.”

Joe the plumber is a fraud.

Red herring ad hominem attack. I'm afraid you lose me when you use such faulty logic. You see, he's called "Joe the Plumber" because his name is Joe and he works for a plumber. Never made further claims but the PRESS tagged him with this alias. Would be like calling you "Premo Ford" just because you drive a Ford. Like my nickname is "Hobie" because I once had a funny incident on a Hobie Cat 16... Doesn't imply that you build Fords or I designed Hobie's boats. It is this inability to discern the truth of things that leads to the conclusion that the communists can solve our problems through government interference.

[Cliff]

I watched the interview and comments and it seems that everytime someone makes a good comment and it is against the wishes of a certain group, the first thing that those not wanting this comment will do is attack the credibility of the person making the comments. Really got to me, the man said what he felt, all the talking heads had to jump on him saying he was not a licensed plumber, I am surprised they didn't also attack all else they could rather than look at what he said. Very common reaction from someone who doesn't want to hear what was said. ATB

[GoatGuy]

Michelle Malkin's - Joe the Plumber Derangement Syndrome -

"Six-term Sen. Joe Biden's got some nerve going after citizen Joe the Plumber. But the entrenched politician from Delaware, who fancies himself the nation's No. 1 Ordinary Joe, had no choice. Obama-Biden simply can't tolerate an outspoken citizen successfully painting the Democratic ticket as socialist overlords. And so a dirty, desperate war against Joe Wurzelbacher is on.

The left's political plumbers are attacking the messenger, rummaging through his personal life and predictably wielding the race card once again. It's standard operating procedure for the Obama thug machine.

Wurzelbacher, in case you've been in hibernation, is the small-business man from Ohio who questioned Obama about his tax plan during a Toledo campaign swing last weekend. The revealing exchange was caught on tape and broadcast widely across the Internet and TV airwaves.

In response to Wurzelbacher's question about why he should be "taxed more and more for fulfilling the American dream," Obama sermonized that he needed to "spread the wealth around" because "it's good for everybody."

John McCain flung that chilling Marxist mantra back in Obama's face during Wednesday night's presidential debate and repeatedly cited Joe the Plumber's plight.

Obama squirmed. The dirt-diggers started Googling. And the next morning, six-term Sen. Biden launched the first salvo against the Ohio entrepreneur on NBC's "Today Show," challenging the veracity of his story: "I don't have any Joe the Plumbers in my neighborhood that make $250,000 a year."

Under an Obama-Biden administration, they'll make sure no Joe the Plumbers ever earn such a salary. "It's good for everybody," don't you know?

Biden, as is so often the case, twisted the facts about Wurzelbacher. No surprise there. Slick Joe Biden is the one who tells fables about visiting a diner in Delaware that hasn't been open in years; spins yarns about getting "forced down" in a helicopter over Afghanistan because of perilous conditions that turned out to be weather related, not al-Qaida related; and continues to slander the family of the man involved in his wife and daughter's fatal car accident (crash investigators cleared the now-deceased driver of drunk driving, despite Biden's insinuations). But I digress.

Wurzelbacher never claimed to be making $250,000 a year. He told Obama that he might be "getting ready to buy a company that makes about $250,000, $270,000" a year. His simple point was that Obama's punitive tax proposals would make it more difficult to realize his dream.

Obama's followers couldn't handle the incontrovertible truth. Left-wing blogs immediately went to work, blaring headlines like "Not A Real $250k Plumber!" Next, they falsely accused Wurzelbacher of not being registered to vote -- he's registered in Lucas County, Ohio, and voted as a Republican in this year's primary.

Next, they called him a liar for identifying himself as undecided. Only registered Democrats and fake Republican tools used in mainstream media stories and YouTube debates are allowed to use that label, you see.

Next, award-winning liberal blogger Joshua Marshall cast Wurzelbacher as some kind of rabid freak for calling Social Security a "joke" -- as if no working-class Americans could believe that the federal government's entitlement programs were a rip-off unless they were bought and paid for by the McCain campaign.

Then, suddenly, the journalists who wouldn't lift a finger to investigate Obama's longtime relationships with Weather Underground terrorist Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright sprang into action rifling through citizen Joe Wurzelbacher's tax records. Politico.com reported breathlessly: "Samuel J. Wurzelbacher has a lien placed against him to the tune of $1,182.92. The lien is dated from January of '07." Press outlets probed his divorce records. The local plumbers union, which has endorsed Obama, claimed he didn't do their required apprenticeship work and didn't have a license to work outside his local township.

Hang him!

After Wurzelbacher told Katie Couric that Obama's rhetorical tap dance was "almost as good as Sammy Davis, Jr.," the inevitable cries of "bigotry" followed. (There are now tens of thousands of hits on the Internet for "Joe the Plumber racist.")

Welcome to Joe the Plumber Derangement Syndrome. If you can't beat him, smear him. It's the Obama way."
---
Michelle Malkin is author of "Unhinged: Exposing Liberals Gone Wild." Her e-mail address is malkinblog@gmail.com.

[Tennessee Hayre]

I don't have the words!!!!!!!!