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I've been shooting a friend's Beretta 92 lately, and have decided I would like to have a hi-cap nine of my own .
However, I just don't like the fit and feel of his 92 , and just cant warm up to Glocks or other tupperware.
My local shop has a HP, and CZ-75B, and both have the heft of real guns (compared to the 92), and better ergos for my hands. They both vaguely remind me of my 1911 in some way; perhaps it's in their efficient, utilitarian construction.
Anyway, I'm looking for input from those with experience with either or both of these weapons. Whichever one I choose would be occasionally carried concealed.
Considering the HP was the last design by the designer of the venerable 1911, John Moses Browning, I doubt you can go wrong there. Some say it is the 1911 concept taken to perfection; I say the 1911 is the 1911 concept - and a combat semi-automatic pistol - taken to perfection. I do have a pair of HP clones - one the standard size, and one a "commander size" with a 4-inch tube. I like them both - these are simply great guns, and I agree with you it is hard to love the plastic passing for guns these days. I can see their utility, but it just isn't wood and steel!
Jeff Cooper was very impressed with the CZ-75. To me, this was taking the best of all concepts and rolling them into one gun. I still haven't found the sweatheart deal on one of these that I've been looking for - but someday I will.
Either are proven designs and combat guns. I'd shoot both and go with the one that feels best to you!
I am a fan of the Browning P-35 and one is within reach as I type this post. The CZ-75 is also a well designed and made pistol, and somewhat cheapter than a Hi-Power. CZ makes some of the finest firearms in the world. I am with Ysabel on this one. Pick which one feels and looks best to you. You won't go wrong with either pistol.
I have never warmed to the Beretta either. They shoot fine but they don't feel right. Having shot both your other choices quite a bit, I'd say you really can't go wrong with either. Both fit the hand well, both much better than the Beretta.
My preference was the CZ slightly over the HP. The CZ allows both a cocked & locked as well as double action first shot. The Browning is C&L only. Until quite recently the the 45 framed EAA Witness was my carry piece until switching to a 1911(it got traded on a Rock River Car-15 lower a couple months ago so for the first time in 20 years I don't have a CZ of some flavor). The CZ sits a little lower in the hand, and from that, has a little better recoil recovery IMO. Still that's just picking nits, both are fine pistols.
"People who object to weapons aren't abolishing violence, they're begging for rule by brute force, when the biggest, strongest animals among men were always automatically 'right.' Guns ended that, and social democracy is a hollow farce without an armed populace to make it work."
Thanks to all for the replies.
I like the design/appearance of both pistols. Their overall dimensions are fairly close, and both are a little lighter and shorter than my Gov. model was. Despite their similarities, the CZ is a little more svelt and comfortable in my hand.
As far as D/A first shot goes, I'm not really interested. I'm surprisingly accurate with my friend's 92 when shooting that first D/A shot, but I don't care for the feel of it (too long), and don't like transitioning from D/A to S/A. This is the CZ model I'm considering, the SA:
At one time I had a pretty extensive collections of Hi-powers.
This is the only one I have left. A rather uncommon variation of the Canadian Inglis with a shoulder stock and Fixed rear sight.
Every HP I've had has been a super shooter. The best was a Belgian FN that was made for the Argentine police. Still don't know why I let that one go.
The CZs are an excellent choice too I haven't owned a CZ75 yet but all the others I've had have been excellent. I haven't been a big fan of the Da/Sa triggers either. Had a Beretta 92 and couldn't get rid of it fast enough.
jb
jasonB " Another Dirty Yankee"
" Tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"
Well, took a trip to my local purveyor-of-all-things-ballistic, and found waiting there an "SFS" BHP.
I have never seen a more unique and interesting safety system!
For those who don't know about it (I didn't), I'll try to describe it:
It works like this:
1) rack the slide to chamber a round, which cocks the hammer (normal so far)
2) push the hammer forward with your thumb (that's right, forward!), which automatically engages the safety, rendering the gun "cocked and locked", but HAMMER DOWN!
3) to fire, swipe the safety off, which snaps the hammer BACK, ready to fire (cocked and unlocked).
I liked the feature and the pistol so much, I asked the proprietor to set it aside. The gun is used, but barely, and is impressive to me in how well it's built and finished. It also fits my hand and points very well.
I seem to remember that the system was offered by Cylinder and Slide (?). If you really want to go with the wonder nine thing you may also want to be looking for South African clips-17 rounds+1 in the chamber.I have two for my hp and they function very well.Got them before they were deemed the source of all things evil in California.
Homefront, I carried a P35 in a war zone its the only 9mm then and now that can hold up to firing 9mm submachinegun ammo and not fall apart or blowup. danny
model55, I dont remember what bullet weight they were 115 or 124 but it had a black tip on the bullet and they left the barrel whipping & spurring. I would be careful ,the stuff I used was provide by the govt. course who knows who made it for them.danny
I have both and am what you could call a "fan" of the wonder-nines. A lot of people think the 9mm is a poor cartridge, but most of these opinions were made off the performance of (Geneva-convention “correct”) ball ammo. Shoot hi-vel loads like Geco BAT’s and the 9mm will perform.
That said, I give my nod to the CZ – and can say that these two pistols are remarkably similar. The Hi-power has a magazine safety that must be removed to make the trigger “right” and is single action. The CZ can be carried like a 1911 .45 – cocked & locked and is also double-action. The CZ is in fact my favorite handgun and I own a pre-ban model, else I’d have two of them – but that task falls to my second favorite, the SIG P226. My attached pic probably tells it better?
Anyways, I stake my life on ANY of these…
P.S. – does anyone here think I might like Hogue grips???
Last edited by Slick on Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Politicians and diapers both require frequent changing for the EXACT same reason!
BTW - DO NOT fire "black-tip" 9mm ammo made by "Eagle" in your handguns. It's "carbine" ammo intended for UZI's and other 9mm semi-auto copies of SMG's.
Politicians and diapers both require frequent changing for the EXACT same reason!
Slick,
The SFS I found has the Hogues, and from my initial impression I'll probably keep them on. I haven't found a Hogue equipped gun that fit my hand until now.
No black tip just fmj but IMI would still be the same company that puts out eagle.Think I'll break it down for components.Sorry if I side tracked this post .
homefront, the CZ is a derivative of the BHP. Two Czech brothers were responsible for the design but they "borrowed" heavily from the BHP design as I recall.
Also, the BHP design may have been started by JMB but it was finished by Dieudonne Saive who was also responsible for the SAFN49 and FAL battle rifles.
I own a 9mm BHP MkIII with the SFS. These used the system designed by Cylinder and Slide and may have in fact used kits supplied by C&S but were only in production for a short time. I don't shoot mine very much but it is on the short list of personal weapons that won't be leaving my company if I can help it. Of course the same goes for my cz82 in 9x18 (9mm Makarov) as well...
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
Around here, the BHP is easier to get parts & holsters for, if that matters. Holster wear has my parkerized .40 BHP in need of refinishing. The finish on the blued 9mm BHP I bought used is holding up better. Both Hi Powers are great pistols and favorites.
John
Family, blue steel & wood, hot biscuits, and fresh coffee.
Luke 22:36 Romans 12:17-21 Ephesians 4:26-32
"Life brings sorrow and joy alike. It is what a man does with them - not what they do to him - that is the true test of his mettle." T. Roosevelt
I am very fond of both pistol models. As pointed out above, the two pistols are quite similar, excepting the double-action feature on most of the CZ-75B variants.
Dunno if it matters in your case--but the CZ-75B in 40 S&W has a MUCH lead-friendlier twist rate in its barrel than do most 40 S&W pistols--1-16" as opposed to the more common 1-10" or 4 turns/meter. I bought a CZ-75B in 40 S&W about a year and a half ago, it was VERY reasonably-priced @ $537 out-the-door in CA with all the DROS foofahrah. It is WITHOUT DOUBT the most accurate 40 S&W I've ever fired, and I've ran a bunch of them as a bureau rangemaster at my old job. It shoots lead wonderfully, too. The pistol graces the top of my nightstand as I write this, with Ranger SXT 180 grainers on board.
The Beretta 92/96 series always seemed kinda big for the cartridges it chambered.
I picked up a CZ 75B .40 some time ago. The kids shoot the stuff out of that gun. It has never failed to properly function despite their collective lack of technique. It is dead nuts accurate. 1886.
Well, I don't know, I have owned a couple of Browning High Powers, several Colt 1911's/clones, etc. And while I have never owned any of the CZ pistols, I have handled them and operated the slides, etc, I personally don't care for the CZ's because they have a few sharp edges on them, that are not friendly to my hands, and can outright bring blood if I am not consious of it, during operation of the slide.
The High Powers, can be pretty good guns, but out of the box, they need work, IMHO. Except for some later models, the tiny safety in an obomination, and the later models with the bigger safetys are not as easy to operate, for me, as the safety on a good 1911.
Then on the Browning, all of them come with a hammer spring from hell, and a too light slide spring. And the trigger with the magazine disconect is horible out of the box, usually. Fortunately, all of those things can be corrrected. You can remove the mag disconnect, and swap out the hammer spring and the slde spring and make the gun a whole lot more friendly to use, and more reliable too.
Now, don't get me wrong, I have always been attracted to the Browning High Power. But out of the box, I wouldn't have one. My favorite High Power is a FN 40 caliber, which I purchased used, after it had been sent Cylinder and Slide for customization. It has had all of the things I dislike about a stock High Power, fixed. And I will not be getting rid of this gun.
But on a side note, someone posted that the High Power was an improvement on the Colt 1911, and it's been said before, but I have to strongly disagree with that statement. I have owned and shot both, quite a bit, and a top notch 1911 is still the gun to judge all other semi-auto pistols by, as far as I am concerned. The only thing that is superior in design on the High Power vs the 1911 is It's magazine which is of better quality then the average 1911 mag. But that still doesn't make the High Power as reliable as a 1911, until some work has been done on it, including some polishing of the feed ramp. But to be fair, there are a lot of 1911's that can benifit from some reliabllity work also.
The High Power has a good feel in the grip when it has been stocked with a good set of wood grips, but movement of the safety is still not quite as handy as the Colt 1911's, In my personaly opiinion.
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, and just cant warm up to Glocks or other tupperware.
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