Blackhorn 209 BP Sub: Back Label Photo

[don Tomás]

9-12-08: Well, its been almost two weeks and I finally cleaned the original Trapdoor carbine, NM Vaquero, & Rossi 92 after trying out Blackhorn209 (BP substitute). All were fine, just as advertised. Same with the casings. Cleaning was actually a lot easier than clean up after shooting rounds loaded with Unique, Hoppe's#9 followed by a light oiling. So... expensive? Yup. Am I going to use it? Yup, but just in the Trapdoor.
Tom

Hey Texican (and anyone else who’s interested) here you go as promised,
Got in the BlackHorn 209 (Black Powder Substitute) and just got back from trying it out. After the big fire we just had up here which was caused by careless target shooters, people are very gun shy about any shooting up here as we still haven’t had any rain so I only fired a few rounds. (FYI - the out-of-town shooters were tossing steel core rifle bullets at rocks sitting in the tall dry grass; “Hey! Where’d all this fire come from????” Marooons…)

Anyway, loaded .45Colt (255gn with western Powder recommended load of 22.2gn BH209) and .45-70 (405gn SPG lubed (no smokeless lubed on hand) with Western Powder recommended 30.4gn BH209). NOTE: while the BH209 bottle sez “Volumetrically equivalent to black powder”, Western Powders is very specific in saying that BH209 MUST be measured by weight (NOT VOLUME) for metallic cartridges. I measured with dippers made from cut down casings but I believe that BH209 will measure just fine due to its extruded nature (i.e., not a powder).

I put 2 cylinders (12 rounds) through the NM Vaquero, 1 magazine of 10 rounds through the Rossi 92, and 10 rounds through the original Trapdoor (bubba carbine). The target was a tree stump at about 15yds.

There were none of the ignition problems that you read about. I used Winchester large pistol primers in the .45Colt rounds and Winchester mag large rifle primers in the .45-70. The flash holes in the .45-70 were drilled out as per Wolfe recommendations for BP in his book. All rounds ignited instantaneously with no delays or hang fires.

The smoke was about 2/3 of what you get from Goex, and there was a “proper boom”. There was a smell to the smoke, but not of sulfur. Not objectionable at all, but then, I like the smell of BP smoke. Recoil in the Springfield was a “black powder push” and not a “smokeless slam”.

Recoil in the Vaquero (5½”) was a bit of a surprise. I normally shoot 5.8gn Trail Boss for range and plinking and 8gn Unique for field and social work. The 22.2gn BH209 felt like it was right up there with the 8gn Unique, maybe even a bit more poop than Unique but it’s been so long since I put anything down range that maybe I just don’t remember. I’d love to chrono the rounds for comparison. All casings extracted just fine with no or minimum effort and no excessive pressure symptoms were found on the extracted casings; struck primers looked normal. Oh, the casings were a heck of a lot cleaner than what I get with Unique.

There was no fouling at all and there was some very light “soot” but there was no unburned powder left behind in any of the barrels. Can’t speak to the accuracy as I was only back 15 yds, but there were no flyers and no key-holing. The bore in the trapdoor is oversize like most all trapdoors and I was shooting .461sized bullets so can’t speak to the bullets “bumping up” to fit the bore. Like I mentioned, no key-holing noted but I was pretty close to the target.

None of the guns have been cleaned and no rinsing was done with any of the casings. I’m going to give it a couple of days (a week?) to see what happens but I will be checking everyday. Sure hope my guns don’t dissolve into rust!

OK, that’s initial impressions. I don’t anticipate shooting much BH209 in .45Colt, its just too expensive. I’ll probably make up a couple of boxes just for visiting company to shoot. I think non-shooter types will get a hoot out of shooting those “BP type” rounds out of the Vaquero & Rossi. I’ll probably just use the BH209 in the Trapdoor because of the ease of maintenance and cleaning. I figure what I save on patches and special BP bullet lubes ought to just about cover the increased expense…
Tom
(Man, being lazy sure is expensive! OK, flame on…)
Below is correspondence received from the Blackhorn people:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First of I want to thank you for your interest in Blackhorn 209.

We did find that smokeless powder lube worked slightly better than black powder lube as it doesn't make quite the mess that black powder lube does. There is no need to soften fouling as in black powder and that is what black powder lubes basic function is.

I hope this answers your question.

Keith Anderson
Western Powders Ballistic Lab

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The cartridge data has the actual weight of the powder charge rather than the volumetric equivalent. The inline muzzle loading crowd is use to loading their muzzle loaders by volume and since that was the original purpose of Blackhorn 209 we advise volumetric loading for "muzzle loaders". Since metallic cartridge shooters are use to weighed powder charges, we developed all of the metallic data by weight

In respect to pistol cartridges, Blackhorn 209 works similar to black powder in that the shooter uses a full case of powder.

In regards to your trap door Springfield, the load has to be reduced slightly to keep under the SAAMI maximum of 18,000 psi. I realize our listed load is slightly over 18,000 psi but this load is listed as a "MAXIMUM" load and should be approached with caution.

I hope that I haven't totally confused you.

Good shooting!

Best regards,
Keith Anderson
Western Powders, Inc.

[Griff]

For anyone considering this as a CAS acceptable BP sub... please review post #23 on BP Subs. Snakebite is a member of the Rules Committee and knows his stuff.

"This powder is ABSOLUTLY NOT allowed in any SASS BP category.
They ask(ed) the Rules committee for approval and were turned down because the powder contains Nitrocellulose which is against SASS rules for use in any BP category."

[Ysabel Kid]

Tom -

Excellent report!

(FYI - the out-of-town shooters were tossing steel core rifle bullets at rocks sitting in the tall dry grass; “Hey! Where’d all this fire come from????” Marooons…)

Sounds like most places - "out-of-towners" cause all of the problems!

Not objectionable at all, but then, I like the smell of BP smoke.

And just what else do you enjoy sniffing? J/K - I love the smell of BP as well!

None of the guns have been cleaned and no rinsing was done with any of the casings. I’m going to give it a couple of days (a week?) to see what happens but I will be checking everyday. Sure hope my guns don’t dissolve into rust!

I remember my brother leaving a C&B revolver sit for one day - less than 24 hours - after firing BP. darn thing had a fine layer of rust almost everywhere. Darn near rusted the wood grips just for spite! I sure hope the 209 lives up to its billing. Please let us know!!!

[Texican]

Well now, thank you very much! That was a darn fine report/review. I appreciate the detail and I'm glad to hear of the 'boom, smoke, and push'. It sounds like fun to play with; I'll have to try some when I find it.

As for the SASS Rules Committee, all I can say is "Fiddlesticks!". BH209 being disqualified due to it's composition and not action or application is akin to banning my rifle because it has chrome moly steel. However, should I invent a game that takes off worldwide with thousands of members, I'll probably have folks disagree with me on the rules too. Not that my enjoyment of the game hinges on what powder I can use anyway. It's still the best game going and Lord knows they've let enough through on the rules that I'm sure they are trying to hold onto what's left.

Thanks again.

[don Tomás]

(Clean up report in first post.)

[Ysabel Kid]

You sold me on it Tom!

[Ben_Rumson]

Thanks for the update.. Good info.. Anxious to hear a TD range report..

[jjames]

I recently bought three cans of BH209 in preparation for deer hunting with my Austin Halleck. At this point, I consider BH209 to be a BP substitute with a lot of cavets. You can't use pecussion caps of any type, they don't recommend bullets over 350 gr, and my A/H 209 primer conversion kit is not recommend as it has slots in it. These facts are not presented unless you download the brochure. I am making the required adjustment to my A/H which is a bit difficult as I am hunting in Montana and they don't allow sabot bullets or Powerbelts the lightest weight bullet I have found is a TC 350gr maxi-hunter. I am sure my 45-90 will be happy though.

[don Tomás]

At this point, I consider BH209 to be a BP substitute with a lot of caveats. You can't use percussion caps of any type...

That's for sure and it sure gets confusing. I get the idea that things are changing moment by moment with the BH209 folks as they discover what they really have. If you read the earlier reviews/data sheets, cartridge loads are expressly prohibited. Below is the back label of my bottle of BH209. Note that it says "Do not use... rifle/pistol primers". Now the BH209 people publish fixed ammunition load data. That back label would really have me scratching my head if I was a ML'er. Even though it says "DON'T", I'm going to try some in my CVA .44 C&B... just as soon as I find my nipple wrench (just in case!)...
Tom

[jjames]

Well I am giving up on BH209 in my Austin Halleck for Montana deer hunting. Tried to sight in the new scope I got with a 100gr BH209 and TC 350 gr maxi-hunters. Montana doesn't allow sabots. Anyway key-holing at 50 yards. Talking to a gentleman at I believe Precision Bullet he indicates I need a heavier bullet to stabilize in the 1:28 twist of my A/H suggesting a 450 gr bullet which substantially exceeds the recommendations of BH209. That BH was sure clean like I had hoped but the plan just won't come together.