30-30XLR vs 336

[gundownunder]

I'm thinking I might need to look at a 30-30 as my next rifle, since y'all have convinced me that its the "ultimate, do it all rifle" .
I understand the 24" barrel will pick up about 20-30 fps per inch but can any of you tell me what the potential accuracy difference is between the 20" 336 and the 24" XLR.
I'd love to hear from anybody using a 30-30 for long range predator shooting, IE. light bullets at high velocity.

[Andrew]

I don't have either, but I was curious about A) why light bullets and B) what's a "light" bullet to you?

[gundownunder]

Standard bullet weights for the 30-30 are about 150 - 170 gn, so light bullets would weigh less than that
Sorry, just kidding.

Bullets in the 110 to 130gn range can be driven a lot faster and would flatten trajectory quite a bit, but their useless if they cant maintain accuracy at the higher velocity.

My ballistic calculator comes up with a trajectory of 1.5" high at 110yds, zero at 180yds, and 1.5" low at 210yds for a 125 gr bullet driven at 2900 fps. If it can maintain accuracy at that velocity it can head shoot cats out to 210yds with a dead on hold.

[86er]

I got a 30-30 for two reasons, one being exactly what you mention. I wanted to have a light rifle with light loads to teach our kids to shoot as well as other kids. I also wanted to tinker with light loads at high velocities for varminting and semi-long range targets. The rifle is a Model 30 - cheaper version of 336. It has a 20" barrel with a 1/2 length tube. We have been loading 110 grain Hornady SP (That's right, pointy bullets). We are loading one in the chamber and one in the mag. The first load we settled on to meet our first goal was spitting those 110's out at 2000 fps. The deviation was negligible, something like 1996 -2004 fps over a box of ammo. The accuracy is minute of angle or less at 100 yds from the bench and using a scope. For goal #2 we speed the same bullets up to 2500 fps and change. I have not tested the accuracy in depth since we had so much fun with the light loads we kinda favor them. I shot a 100 pound black hawaiian ram with the low-power loads. First, no recoil whatsoever is noticable (to an adult). The noise is very low too. The 110's that hit soft tissue behind the shoulder and between ribs penetrated fully with little expansion (2 shots, same behavior). One shot into the shoulder expanded violently and just made it out the other side, leaving a big, chewed up hole of about 1 1/2" round. Based on these experiences, I don't believe the real velocity gain with a longer barrel is significant enough to fret over and I don't believe the longer barrel will be inherently more accurate. Each barrel has an individual potential regardless of length and a hundred fps in either direction do not effect the ballistics of these light bullets with very high for cartridge velocity, nor very low. FWIW, we tried 125 grains and found they were noticabley louder and had a little bit of recoil. Just a 15 gr difference in bullet weight was significant. Good Luck with it!

[Old Savage]

Interesting.

[Bluehawk]

I just RE-pread an article in Rifle Magazine from about 6 years ago By Brian Pearce on the 30-30. In that article he compared 11 factory loads in a 94 Winchester carbine( 20 in barrel) to a Marlin 336 in 24 IN barrel length . INteresting results . The WInchester had higer velocities with the shorter barrel in half the instances and had smaller groups in half the instances , Where the velocities were higher in the Marlin they averaged only about 90 feet per second faster thats only about 20 or so FPS per inch of barrell . He compared factory 125 grain bullet loads in this article IIRC.
I will dig out the article again and re post the exact information when I get home from work today. A lot of interesting data if you are comparing the Marlin to the Winchester.
I have two winchester 94s one carbine in 20 in and one legacy in 24 IN both shoot extremely well I like carrying them both not all that much difference in both ( but I like the balance of the carbine a little better)
I DID have a Marlin 336 carbine I sold it to my nephew after my youngest son took his first deer with it USING a handloaded 130 Grain Speer bullet ( thats why I mentioned this cause you asked about the lighter bullets) My nephew has taken three deer with that rifle since then Thats four deer with 4 shots Not a bad record

[Rimfire McNutjob]

For "light", I believe the Accelerator loads are still available ... the sabotted 22 cal stuff in 30-30.

[Mike D.]

Light bullets are "useless"? Tell that to the deer that have fallen to the itty-bitty 125 grain PSPs that fly from my little Savage 99 .30-30.

[shawn_c992001]

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... f=1&t=8198
There is some good loads there.

I load a 110gr V-max in a 30-30 with a healthy dose of 3031 35gr to be exact, you just pull the plastic tip out with pliers. They shoot great out of my 94.

[Bluehawk]

I just wanted to get on here and give the information I had siad I would give earlier
First my memory was mistaken on one part I had confused two articles I had read about the same time . One article showed that the 20 in carbine had out shot ( for velocity ) a rifle with the 24 in barrel that was NOT the Brian Pearce article i had alluded to SORRY MY MISTAKE
Pearces article was in Rifle 195 May 2001 it did infact though compare 19 different factory rounds from both a 24 in MARLIN and a 20 IN WInchester 94 the Marlin in fact beat the Win in every load FOR VELOCITY ONLY AND that was very marginal to me anyway of the 19 loads the increase of velociy only averaged 78fps ( actually 77.7364 fps ) the highest increase in velocity was one cartridge at 89 fps second faster than the carbine . INHO not enough to justify the increase in barrel length IN accuracy it was completey devided evenly one of the 19 was NOT compared for accuracy ( I have no idea why ) of the other 18 9 each for smaller groups and again the average was way low not much of a difference between them there again IMHO not enough to give a decided edge to the longer barrel.
I woud highly recomend getting the article and reading it much more info in there than just this
This was the only one I coud find that had any factual data for your comparison of the 336 and the 94 I hope it helps

[Kapincrunch]

Shooting light bullets does not mean you extend your range at all. I have used the 125 grain flat points and find that they lose speed more quickly than most other bullets. someone posted an absurd # of 2900fps with 125 grain bullet. The best I have done with the 125 grain bullets is 2550fps and that is smoking. You cannot do 2900 fps in a 30/30 Marlin. You can get close to that in a 307 win, but the 30/30 wont take that kind of pressure safely. The 130 Speer has a better BC than most of the lighter bullets. Because of that you can get it to shoot about as flat as you can shoot the 160 grain Leverevolution bullets. I have no experience with either the Rem Accelerator bullets or the light 110 grain bullets.
Jim

[mark]

Good afternoon,

I have a 30-30, 336C and an XLR 45-70. Both excellent rifles.

If I was to do it over again, I would get the 30-30 in XLR.

Why?:

1. I am quite tall and just find the 24" XLR easier to shoot well.

2. I prefer the bedding of the XLR, i.e. no barrel bands. It's more stable as it heats up. Doesn't matter in the scrub but if you are at the range and shooting a lot the 336C moves it's point of impact much sooner than my XLR.

3. My XLR is not fussy about what I feed it, the 336C is. Bedding?, caliber?, who knows.

Anyway, you can't go wrong either way. Just a matter of personal preference.

Cheers

Mark