Thanks to Boys and Men

[AJMD429]

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A couple of interesting talks on how male character traits are unique and helpful to society, and what happens when society demeans males.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qwm-fcL2uY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAFXZlHzK7g

The person Helen Andrews she refers to was interveiwed on Triggernometry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfbilhs5dt4

Our society is flipping gender roles and suffereing the consequences.

[JimT]

Here's a good book to share ...

91IBJvHAoWL._SL1500_.jpg

A much needed guide for many men who have evolved into being unable to change a tire, cook a steak, kill a rodent, or God forbid, say a naughty word.

Available on Amazon

[Bill in Oregon]

Wish it were available in print. I don't do Kindle. It's too pink for me.

[Safestuffer]

Here's a good book to share ...
91IBJvHAoWL._SL1500_.jpg

A much needed guide for many men who have evolved into being unable to change a tire, cook a steak, kill a rodent, or God forbid, say a naughty word.

Available on Amazon

Let's be honest.
Our society has become feminized and weak. Masculinity will get you arrested and thrown in prison.
Ask Daniel Penny

[JimT]

Daniel Penny stood up when most men wouldn't.

[Safestuffer]

Daniel Penny stood up when most men wouldn't.

And why would they?

[JimT]

Daniel Penny stood up when most men wouldn't.

And why would they?

There's no way I can know what other people's reasons are for getting involved or not. Penny stated why he did. No one has to agree with him.

[Safestuffer]

What societal and cultural incentives are there for a man to do what Penny did?

"Man up"...
Why?
For women that are promiscuous and a society that demonizes them?

[JimT]

What societal and cultural incentives are there for a man to do what Penny did?

"Man up"...
Why?
For women that are promiscuous and a society that demonizes them?

Social and cultural incentives are not good motivators. If a person has nothing internally then that's about all that is left.

[Safestuffer]

What societal and cultural incentives are there for a man to do what Penny did?

"Man up"...
Why?
For women that are promiscuous and a society that demonizes them?

Social and cultural incentives are not good motivators. If a person has nothing internally then that's about all that is left.

You didnt answer the question.

[JimT]

Social and cultural incentives alone are not good motivators. If a person has nothing internally then that's about all that is left. But if a person is not motivated to act by those outside things, then they act because of what they have internally, which would be their belief system or world view.

[Safestuffer]

Social and cultural incentives alone are not good motivators. If a person has nothing internally then that's about all that is left. But if a person is not motivated to act by those outside things, then they act because of what they have internally, which would be their belief system or world view.

So men should insert themselves where they are not wanted and subject themselves to legal and economic ruin for....some internal sense of duty to a culture that doesnt exist any more?

[jeepnik]

I heard an interesting take on marriage and monogamy. Simply put, marriage is an institution of women, by women and for women. From a reproductive standpoint marriage isn't necessary. Marriage simply provides security for women. Whether that be in the form of a living space, food or safety from predators.

[AmBraCol]

Social and cultural incentives alone are not good motivators. If a person has nothing internally then that's about all that is left. But if a person is not motivated to act by those outside things, then they act because of what they have internally, which would be their belief system or world view.

So men should insert themselves where they are not wanted and subject themselves to legal and economic ruin for....some internal sense of duty to a culture that doesnt exist any more?

Each one must judge for themselves what their personal values are and act on them. I'm currently reading Cicero's account of the Roman empire and it's amazing what the legions would do, or not do, according to their personal set of values, multiplied times the number of men in the legion, of course. Still, they - according to Cicero - put a lot of value on their honor, a term many no longer understand. There are worse things than being judged wrong for doing what's right.

[AmBraCol]

I heard an interesting take on marriage and monogamy. Simply put, marriage is an institution of women, by women and for women. From a reproductive standpoint marriage isn't necessary. Marriage simply provides security for women. Whether that be in the form of a living space, food or safety from predators.

Having worked with many marriages over the decades, I can tell you that who ever dreamed that up has a twisted idea of what marriage is about and the value it brings to a man's life. Unfortunately too many judge the entire institution by the pathologies destroying a vital part of a healthy society rather than considering the solid structure healthy marriages give to society.

[JimT]

So men should insert themselves where they are not wanted and subject themselves to legal and economic ruin for....some internal sense of duty to a culture that doesnt exist any more?

No sir. A man should act according to his conscience, doing what's right as he understands it.

[JimT]

I heard an interesting take on marriage and monogamy. Simply put, marriage is an institution of women, by women and for women. From a reproductive standpoint marriage isn't necessary. Marriage simply provides security for women. Whether that be in the form of a living space, food or safety from predators.

Having worked with many marriages over the decades, I can tell you that who ever dreamed that up has a twisted idea of what marriage is about and the value it brings to a man's life. Unfortunately too many judge the entire institution by the pathologies destroying a vital part of a healthy society rather than considering the solid structure healthy marriages give to society.

Well said my friend

[Ysabel Kid]

Here's a good book to share ...
91IBJvHAoWL._SL1500_.jpg

A much needed guide for many men who have evolved into being unable to change a tire, cook a steak, kill a rodent, or God forbid, say a naughty word.

Available on Amazon

[Safestuffer]

So men should insert themselves where they are not wanted and subject themselves to legal and economic ruin for....some internal sense of duty to a culture that doesnt exist any more?

No sir. A man should act according to his conscience, doing what's right as he understands it.

Just the men huh?
What about women?
What are their duties to society?

[JimT]

Just the men huh?
What about women?
What are their duties to society?

Well my friend, I was just speaking to your question "So men should insert themselves .....?"

I like this:

Sometimes, the things that may or may not be true are the things that a person needs to believe in the most.
That people are basically good.
That honor, virtue and courage mean everything; that money and power, power and money, mean nothing.
That good always triumphs over evil.
And remember this, this is the most important: true love ... True love never dies.
It doesn't matter if those things are true or not. A person needs to believe in them, because those are the things worth believing in!
(from the movie “Secondhand Lions”)

[Safestuffer]

Just the men huh?
What about women?
What are their duties to society?

Well my friend, I was just speaking to your question "So men should insert themselves .....?"

I like this:

Sometimes, the things that may or may not be true are the things that a person needs to believe in the most.
That people are basically good.
That honor, virtue and courage mean everything; that money and power, power and money, mean nothing.
That good always triumphs over evil.
And remember this, this is the most important: true love ... True love never dies.
It doesn't matter if those things are true or not. A person needs to believe in them, because those are the things worth believing in!
(from the movie “Secondhand Lions”)

Yea that world doesnt exist any more, if it ever did.

Here's the bottom line. Men are not gentlemen any more, and they should not be. It is good and correct for men to discard this outdated social model of "chivalry" and "gentlemanly" duties.

Men should not be gentlemen because women broke the social contract between men and women in which men were required to be gentlemen and women were required to be ladies.

Men should not be gentlemen to a generation of women who prioritize materialism over family and children.

Men should not be gentlemen to a generation of women who utterly disregard the importance of masculinity in the home.

Men should not be gentlemen for a generation of women who's biggest political goal is the "freedom" to kill their own babies in the womb. Those are MENS babies too and MEN dont like seeing their babies killed. Here's something for you to chew on too. Men should find the act of baby murder unacceptable. Yet here we are. Maybe you should be looking for the real men in the past, instead of the present. Where were the men keeping corporations from enslaving their sisters and daughters through "feminism"? Where were the men insisting that our society doesnt murder our own children?

Men should not be gentlemen to a generation of women who left the church in record numbers.

Men should not be gentlemen to a generation of women who insist on usurping "patriarchy" at any cost up to and including the destruction of our society.

Men should not be gentlemen to a generation of women who refuse to accept authority from men

Men should not be gentlemen to a generation of women who prioritize and pursue promiscuity and prostitution. Men should not be gentlemen to women who have slept with 10, 20, or more people before they have graduated high school.

The above points used to be exceptions. Now they are the norm.
Until you address the above points, this altruistic nonsense and insistence that men "do better" is just another form of slavery in which men bear the burdens of societal maintenance with no reward.

Responsibility without authority is tantamount to slavery.

[AmBraCol]

@Safestuffer , Interesting how your entire paradigm is built upon the exact opposite of "the golden rule". Who I am and choose to be does not depend on others. It depends on who I am inside and lived out in my life. To live one's life based on whether other's "deserve" our best behavior or not is a recipe for moral shipwreck. Thankfully there are still many men and women who live up to the concept of honor and treating others the way they want to be treated. It's a tried and true way of life that is not yet extinct, although it is endangered in many places due to our shift to an attempted godless society. "There are still 7,000 who have not bowed their knee to Baal." Elijah was told when he lamented being "the only one left". In the same way - there are still many fine, upstanding, honorable men and women around. They just don't generate the same headlines that other classes do.

[JimT]

Aha! Thank you. It's good to know who we are and who we are talking with. I enjoy a good conversation and discussion ... even with someone I may disagree with ... as long as the egos don't get involved. Thanks for taking the time!

[AJMD429]

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I don't pretend to be a particularly noble example of humanity, but I was raised to "always do what is right", and to determine what is right based on a basic world-view based on the intersection of science and religion. It works to give me an easy-to-reference moral compass that is consistent throughout life, so tends to avoid me vacillating or having some sort of cognitive dissonance when it comes to hard decisions.

Now a less charitable view of it could be the simple observation that I'm super-stubborn, so once I decide what is 'right' I will do it, regardless of what some sidline observer thinks, and sometimes even if another party directly involved thinks otherwise. So I do act gentlemanly towards women (and men, actually), and I fundamentally am programmed biologically to prioritize protecting family, but also others, and particularly women and children, even if it contributes negatively to my own life. Part of that is exhibited in the way I do my job - I dropped accepting insurance and dealing with them because they pressure patient and doctor to do unethical things that are profitable for the physician, and convenient for the patient, but even more profitable for the insurer, and harmful to the patient. I estimate that has netted about a 75% - 80% pay cut versus my friends who are primary care physicians who take insurance. But I'm only going to live once, and I'll be d*med (literally) if I'm going to spend it doing the wrong thing.

The same mindset applies to the way I interact with non-patients.

Not necessarily some unusual amount of 'virtue' - maybe just my innate stubborness. But it works for me, and makes the pieces of my life fit together well.