Loading data through the years

[JimT]

I copied this out of loading manuals I have. I went over it a couple times and I THINK I have it right, but I could have made some errors. Just warning ...

I copied .357 .... .44 Special and .45 Colt data .. and I only copied the maximum loads listed.

The Ideal and Lyman Manuals start in 1940 and progress through the 50th Lyman Loading Manual.

Handload Data Through The Years.pdf

[Bill in Oregon]

Very interesting, Jim. Funny how 2400 disappears and reappears in .45 Colt loads.

[GunnyMack]

Blue dot too has come and gone in different cartridges too.

[JimT]

Yes. And the loading of 2400 and Unique get lower and lower.

If you can find them, the early loads for the .357 Magnum were much hotter then. And the early cases used Large primers.

early357_1.jpg

early357_2.jpg

[Scott Tschirhart]

Interesting stuff Jim and it kinda parallels the decline in manhood in the general population over the same time period.

Do you think this is coincidental?

[JimT]

I never thought of it that way, but you certainly can make an application of it.

[JimT]

When I had all those .45 Colt loads tested by Hodgdon's in their pressure gun, none were over 31,000 CUP which is safe in the Ruger Blackhawk. Most of the loads were under 25,000 CUP. I shot 25,000 CUP loads in the Colt SAA (2nd generation) and in Uberti's. A lot! The loads beat up the cross-pin latch for cylinder pin until I hardened them a bit. But never hurt anything else.

My favorite "playing load" is the Keith SWC and 8.5 gr. Unique. I did not pressure test that load but I did pressure test 9.0 gr. of Unique. It was only 17,800 CUP so 8.5 is even lower.

I don't load less than 18 gr. of 2400 as it won't burn clean. I shot some with 16 gr. when the weather was cold and I got "funny" ignition. Not quite a hang-fire but it didn't feel right.

EDIT: I loaded some this last year with 15 gr. 2400 and they shot fine ... just dirty ... so maybe it was the cold weather or primers or both? Or maybe I did something wrong? But I like my standard load. I am used to it so I stick with it pretty much.

I was reading an article on reloading .45 Colt's and the guy began by complaining that the 18.5 gr. of 2400 with the Keith bullet recoiled too violently. I deleted his page at that point. So I think Scott has a really good point.

[samsi]

I was 24 or 25 when I got my first 44, but didn't start reloading for another 10 years. The first decade I shot Federal 240 jacketed almost exclusively and I don't think Federal left much performance on the table. When I got my first 45 Colt I remember being underwhelmed with the legendary 18.5/2400 load - although it was a ratty old 25-5 with enormous throats so it likely wasn't spooling up much pressure.

Phil Sharpe's book has some loads listed that would be a lawsuit waiting to happen today.

[JimT]

That standard .45 Colt load is a lot lighter than the standard .44 Magnum load for sure!

[Griff]

When my wife started cowboy action shooting with me in 1987, a fellow shooter gave her about 3K rounds of 38 Special brass... about 500 rounds of it were Large Primer. I grew to despise them if I didn't do a good job of sorting! I finally segregated all of 'em and shot them and left them lay on the ground at the police range, or she used them in a "lost brass" match. Might have 50 or so left at the bottom of one my brass bins.

[JimT]

You sound like me and the small primer .45 ACP's.

[Griff]

You sound like me and the small primer .45 ACP's.

I wanna sting up whoever came up with that silly idea!

[piller]

I have only been reloading for about 25 years, but I have noticed the lighter loads, too. I do contend that 24 grains of 2400 in 44 Mag behind a 240 grain JHP is pretty stout. That was my introduction to 44 Mag. A friend of my Older Brother liked that load. I was a skinny 112 pound 14 year old, and that load was not easy to handle for me.

[Modoc]

@Griff, I feel your pain. I bought a 5 gallon bucket of 38 Spl brass for $5 at a swap meet. I ended up with a Red Vines bucket of Peters Nickel LPP brass. They are set aside for BP CAS loads but haven’t been touched in years.

As to the original thread, I see this too and thought that it was due to better pressure testing methods and tools and changes in powder formulas. I still follow wildcatter’s methods for verifying pressure (primer dia. Growth, .200 datum measurement, velocity, etc.).

[Scott Tschirhart]

When I had all those .45 Colt loads tested by Hodgdon's in their pressure gun, none were over 31,000 CUP which is safe in the Ruger Blackhawk. Most of the loads were under 25,000 CUP. I shot 25,000 CUP loads in the Colt SAA (2nd generation) and in Uberti's. A lot! The loads beat up the cross-pin latch for cylinder pin until I hardened them a bit. But never hurt anything else.

My favorite "playing load" is the Keith SWC and 8.5 gr. Unique. I did not pressure test that load but I did pressure test 9.0 gr. of Unique. It was only 17,800 CUP so 8.5 is even lower.

I don't load less than 18 gr. of 2400 as it won't burn clean. I shot some with 16 gr. when the weather was cold and I got "funny" ignition. Not quite a hang-fire but it didn't feel right.

EDIT: I loaded some this last year with 15 gr. 2400 and they shot fine ... just dirty ... so maybe it was the cold weather or primers or both? Or maybe I did something wrong? But I like my standard load. I am used to it so I stick with it pretty much.

I was reading an article on reloading .45 Colt's and the guy began by complaining that the 18.5 gr. of 2400 with the Keith bullet recoiled too violently. I deleted his page at that point. So I think Scott has a really good point.

You can load up a SAA in .45 Colt until it just isn’t any fun to shoot. But it won’t hurt the gun if you have a good hard base pin.

[Bill in Oregon]

Scott, that is a very interesting observation about base pin hardness. I always thought it was the cylinder walls in sixguns chambered for .45 Colt that made all the difference. But of course the base pin takes a great deal of the load.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Scott, that is a very interesting observation about base pin hardness. I always thought it was the cylinder walls in sixguns chambered for .45 Colt that made all the difference. But of course the base pin takes a great deal of the load.

You can blow a cylinder wall with an overload to be sure. But a base pin gets battered in the locking groove if it isn’t properly hardened. I replaced one on my main USFA because it was too soft.

I’m sure that I am in the minority but I think Colt had it right when they secured the pin with a screw through the frame.

[Griff]

I’m sure that I am in the minority but I think Colt had it right when they secured the pin with a screw through the frame.

I"m with you in that minority. I don't have any Colts of that era, but have two EMF Hartford Models that both have the base pin held by a screw. Both with two grooves in the base pin, which makes it easier to locate the pin so gun won't fire, vs. will fire! I really need to lop off the back of the base pin to eliminate that possibility... or buy new Colt base pins. Now I feel obligated to go check sizes...

[piller]

Metal hardness is indeed a potential issue. Too hard, and it becomes brittle. Too soft and it gets battered out of shape.
We all understand this. That is part of why the lower quality firearms often fail at stress points.

I had 3 broken ejector springs in my Marlin Guide Gun stainless model within 2 months of owning it. I replaced the ejector with one which had Bomb Proof and made of a single piece in the description. Years later and it is still going. While not the same, it sort of goes right along with the issue of cylinder base pins failing. I have a Chiappa revolver in 17 HMR, a cheap junk toy. The base pin often moves and locks up the whole mechanism. I just play with it while plinking, so it is not repaired yet. It seems as if the groove is too shallow, or the base pin lock is too thin. I need to fix it, but it might not be worth the cost of a good base pin. It actually slides inside the frame. Perhaps I can drill a small hole sideways through the base pin and insert a roll pin to prevent it from going in too far.