454 casull rossi's

[mickbr]

Hi gents, after almost 20 years since the first was produced, though I understand production didnt run every year, what was the eventual verdict on the suitability of this platform?
I heard a variety reports about minor damage but did any of these guns really let go? Or even lock up and stop working?

conversely I think its unlikely many 454 rossi owners really put their guns to the test, no one wants to run thousands of full power loads, especially in such a lightweight. However if you have or know of such reports, feel free to share

[Old Savage]

Cowboy Tutt did. His kind of loosened up and had to be worked on but I think he still uses it.

[KWK]

I went over to Rossi's site and see they still offer a 92 style carbine in 454. It seems to be the only model with both a side loading gate and a magazine tube loading port: Why the latter?

[.45colt]

Many years ago I found several on used gun racks at Cabela's at different times. They All had cracks in the fore end to some degree. I think Rossi worked to improve that.

[oldebear1950]

I think ROSSI makes two versions of the 454. One with the tube and loading gate , and one with just the loading gate.
I traded earlier in the year and was hoping for that version and got the one with just the loading gate, and am trying to get ROSSI to change it.

Mine is the 20 inch stainless and I got it cause it also shoots 45 colt, and in fact that is all I have shot in it so far. I have two revolvers that shoot 45 colt.

[AJMD429]

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I'm not too recoil-sensitive I guess, because I like my little 16" Rossi 454, even shooting Buffalo Bore ammo in it.

I really LIKE the tube-port, mostly for unloading when I return into the house if out hunting - cycling rounds through a gun without firing them certainly isn't that difficult, but it still is easier, and faster, to just drop the magazine-tube follower and out they come, especially if your hands are still gloved, or are cold and stiff otherwise.

They did find they had to thread the magazine tube, or it would pull away from the receiver, and I think until they got better at relieving stress points in the stocks, there were cracking issues, but I never saw one that was much more than cosmetic, and could have been fixed (or prevented) with a bit of hand-filing and epoxy.

That being said, I mostly do NOT shoot highest-power loads in mine, because there isn't much need - however if I go back out to bear-country, most likely I'll have that Rossi 454. Now I could fit the same niche with an AR SBR in 50 Beowulf, but transporting an SBR over state lines is a hassle, plus I think the levergun is a bit more in line with "going out west".

[Turdyturdy]

Mine is the stainless Puma version imported by LSI. It has both the side gate and magazine tube load option. It also has the bolt safety. I don’t shoot full power 454 loads in it anymore as they cracked the buttstock and the recoil overcame the fine threads holding the inner magazine tube in. I get by the tube thread issue by wrapping them with fine dental floss.i keep my reloads below 1600 fps. XTP mag bullet at that speed is more than enough!

[AJMD429]

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I didn’t have any actual issues with those phone threads, but they made me nervous, so I preemptively coded them in the kind of Loctite. You have to heat up to loosen.
I haven’t had the stocks off since then, but if I recall correctly,there was a modification on the buttstock, where are the hole drilled out for the tang bolt had a piece of plastic tubing inserted there, evidently to take strain off the wood somehow.

[Grizz]

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I'm not too recoil-sensitive I guess, because I like my little 16" Rossi 454, even shooting Buffalo Bore ammo in it.

I really LIKE the tube-port, mostly for unloading when I return into the house if out hunting - cycling rounds through a gun without firing them certainly isn't that difficult, but it still is easier, and faster, to just drop the magazine-tube follower and out they come, especially if your hands are still gloved, or are cold and stiff otherwise.

They did find they had to thread the magazine tube, or it would pull away from the receiver, and I think until they got better at relieving stress points in the stocks, there were cracking issues, but I never saw one that was much more than cosmetic, and could have been fixed (or prevented) with a bit of hand-filing and epoxy.

That being said, I mostly do NOT shoot highest-power loads in mine, because there isn't much need - however if I go back out to bear-country, most likely I'll have that Rossi 454. Now I could fit the same niche with an AR SBR in 50 Beowulf, but transporting an SBR over state lines is a hassle, plus I think the levergun is a bit more in line with "going out west".

chuckhawks says that the 454 runs at 300 Weatherby Magnum pressures. which explains how it drives 300 grain bullets 300 to 400 fps faster than the same weight in 44 magnum. explosive performance gains . . .

[ywaltzucanrknrl]

What I have always wondered about the 454's is whether or not there is any difference between them and say the 45 Colt or 44 Mag version when it comes to the receiver thickness, barrel dimensions, lug dimensions and other related strength qualities? I've never seen one, but I've thought about buying one to mainly shoot as a 45 Colt like oldebear mentioned.

Somewhere at home I have a copy of an article that has a paragraph or two in it I believe by Paco that said he obtained one of the 454's and was testing it. Anyone know how his testing turned out?

[Grizz]

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I'm not too recoil-sensitive I guess, because I like my little 16" Rossi 454, even shooting Buffalo Bore ammo in it.

I really LIKE the tube-port, mostly for unloading when I return into the house if out hunting - cycling rounds through a gun without firing them certainly isn't that difficult, but it still is easier, and faster, to just drop the magazine-tube follower and out they come, especially if your hands are still gloved, or are cold and stiff otherwise.

They did find they had to thread the magazine tube, or it would pull away from the receiver, and I think until they got better at relieving stress points in the stocks, there were cracking issues, but I never saw one that was much more than cosmetic, and could have been fixed (or prevented) with a bit of hand-filing and epoxy.

That being said, I mostly do NOT shoot highest-power loads in mine, because there isn't much need - however if I go back out to bear-country, most likely I'll have that Rossi 454. Now I could fit the same niche with an AR SBR in 50 Beowulf, but transporting an SBR over state lines is a hassle, plus I think the levergun is a bit more in line with "going out west".

chuckhawks says that the 454 runs at 300 Weatherby Magnum pressures. which explains how it drives 300 grain bullets 300 to 400 fps faster than the same weight in 44 magnum. explosive performance gains . . .

right over on the other hand, the 45/70 will add about 300fps to the Casull's 300 grain numbers, so it brings me back to my guide gun as my do almost-all, without casull-envy

[Streetstar]

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however if I go back out to bear-country, most likely I'll have that Rossi 454. Now I could fit the same niche with an AR SBR in 50 Beowulf, but transporting an SBR over state lines is a hassle, plus I think the levergun is a bit more in line with "going out west".

Doc

Might I remind you that you have a Big Horn?
Us poors don’t have that option but if I had the BH I’d be taking it

That’s like going overlanding in a single cab Nissan when you have a sweet vintage LandCruiser home in the garage

[mickbr]

What I have always wondered about the 454's is whether or not there is any difference between them and say the 45 Colt or 44 Mag version when it comes to the receiver thickness, barrel dimensions, lug dimensions and other related strength qualities? I've never seen one, but I've thought about buying one to mainly shoot as a 45 Colt like oldebear mentioned.

Somewhere at home I have a copy of an article that has a paragraph or two in it I believe by Paco that said he obtained one of the 454's and was testing it. Anyone know how his testing turned out?

I have also wondered what the engineering differences are between the Rossi 45colts/44 mag and the 454 casull when it comes to strength. I know Paco loaded some pretty powerful 45colt and 357 ammo in his articles but I seem to recall things were kept around estimates of 50KPSI max. 65KPSI in the 454 casull is another ballpark. Can the 'regular rossi's handle it too, have never seen a definitive answer on that so far, id assume only Rossis engineers would know for sure. I'm not going to be the first to try

[wvfarrier]

I get REAL close to that 1600fps in my 45 colt loads using my Win 92. My hunting loads run just at 1500 with a 300 grain xtp mag

[mickbr]

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I'm not too recoil-sensitive I guess, because I like my little 16" Rossi 454, even shooting Buffalo Bore ammo in it.

I really LIKE the tube-port, mostly for unloading when I return into the house if out hunting - cycling rounds through a gun without firing them certainly isn't that difficult, but it still is easier, and faster, to just drop the magazine-tube follower and out they come, especially if your hands are still gloved, or are cold and stiff otherwise.

They did find they had to thread the magazine tube, or it would pull away from the receiver, and I think until they got better at relieving stress points in the stocks, there were cracking issues, but I never saw one that was much more than cosmetic, and could have been fixed (or prevented) with a bit of hand-filing and epoxy.

That being said, I mostly do NOT shoot highest-power loads in mine, because there isn't much need - however if I go back out to bear-country, most likely I'll have that Rossi 454. Now I could fit the same niche with an AR SBR in 50 Beowulf, but transporting an SBR over state lines is a hassle, plus I think the levergun is a bit more in line with "going out west".

chuckhawks says that the 454 runs at 300 Weatherby Magnum pressures. which explains how it drives 300 grain bullets 300 to 400 fps faster than the same weight in 44 magnum. explosive performance gains . . .

right over on the other hand, the 45/70 will add about 300fps to the Casull's 300 grain numbers, so it brings me back to my guide gun as my do almost-all, without casull-envy

Gotta be careful Grizz using the term 'do all' or 'do almost all' on a thread about a pistol calibre. Because the 45-70 dont do handguns, self defence loads, cowboy action, or fflat shooting small game bullets(ftx at 2500fps) very well at all.

[Grizz]

chuckhawks says that the 454 runs at 300 Weatherby Magnum pressures. which explains how it drives 300 grain bullets 300 to 400 fps faster than the same weight in 44 magnum. explosive performance gains . . .

right over on the other hand, the 45/70 will add about 300fps to the Casull's 300 grain numbers, so it brings me back to my guide gun as my do almost-all, without casull-envy

Gotta be careful Grizz using the term 'do all' or 'do almost all' on a thread about a pistol calibre. Because the 45-70 dont do handguns, self defence loads, cowboy action, or fflat shooting small game bullets(ftx at 2500fps) very well at all.

Thanks for the input. I'll try to 'splain my view on the subject . . .
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first, if we try to differentiate the 45 caliber pistol bullets from the 45 caliber rifle bullets, we are talking about FOUR THOUSANDTHS OF AN INCH. this is a distinction without a difference. this is less than the discrepancy among some cast bullets, and why they get resized. 45 caliber muzzle loaders have a wider range of sizes. 45 caliber is 45 caliber, and pistol calibers are subsets of rifle calibers. For example I have seen 444 ammo shot from a 45/70 guide gun.

45-70 dont do handguns> they do handguns. i have shot my 525Gr load from two different hand guns. game has been taken from 45/70 pistols.
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BFR 45-70.jpg

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self defence loads> they do self defense. Bond Arms sells 45/70 derringers.
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bond-arms-45-70.jpg

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as to cowboy action and velocities>
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Handloaded rounds can achieve higher velocities than factory-loaded ammo, which is one reason why reloading is popular among competitive Cowboy Action shooters. It's also an enjoyable pastime that can save you some money!

The muzzle velocity of a typical factory-loaded 45-70 cartridge ranges from about 1,150 to 2,300 fps, depending on the rifle and exact load it’s firing.

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we're squeezing up to the 2500fps levels here.
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my experiences with firearms encourages me to think that anything is [almost] possible, AND [almost] never say [never] . . .

I have never come close to finding out what the 45/70 can't do.

regards,
grizz

[mickbr]

I know it does do all those things Grizz, thats why I was careful to say the 45-70 doesnt do them very well . I'll stand by that to anyone toting a 45-70 BFR or derringer for self defence . One thing the 45-70 does the best is bust its way onto most every pistol calibre and 444 marlin thread on the internet. Im too old and tired to fight it off one more time, you win.

[Paul105]

I quickly scrolled thru above posts but didn't see this article by Paco.
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https://www.gunblast.com/Paco_Legacy_454.htm
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Paul

[Grizz]

I know it does do all those things Grizz, thats why I was careful to say the 45-70 doesnt do them very well . I'll stand by that to anyone toting a 45-70 BFR or derringer for self defence . One thing the 45-70 does the best is bust its way onto most every pistol calibre and 444 marlin thread on the internet. Im too old and tired to fight it off one more time, you win.

im too tired too. i read the Paco article that Paul posted, i'd like to have that 454 buried with me.

good night

[AJMD429]

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The 'big bore levergun' cartridges I can choose between would include:

44 Mag
444 Marlin
45 Colt
454 Casull
45-70 Govt
500 S&W

40 years of 70-hour workweeks and buying only one new vehicle during that time does return some good fortune in the gun-options department.

The 'best' in power and versatility is the 500 S&W, but even though I got an early model when they were literally half the cost they are now, it remains the most expensive firearm I've ever bought. It can shoot a huge variety of bullets including saboted ones, and there is an ungainly revolver one can pair with it.

The 'most practical' in terms of availability of ammo and the variety of companion handguns is the 44 Magnum. Nice to have quite a few DA revolvers or even a short-cartridge 44 Special that's sort of ammo-compatible. The 44 Mag from a rifle will reliably drop just about anything, although not ideal for moose, elk, or bears.

The 'most fun' would be 45 Colt, just due to its heritage, although if I get too cowboy-nostalgic I remind myself there were basically no leverguns in that chambering 'back in the day'. It can anything the 44 Mag can do, only slightly better, with a bit fewer gun options (...alas, no Desert Eagle in 45 Colt... ).

The 'underdog favorite' might go to the 444 Marlin, since it always gets upstaged by the 45-70, and it is actually a great cartridge, less likely to over-strain the guns it is chambered in. Plus it shares bullet diameter and weights well with the 44 Mag. Drawback is like all the long-action cartridges - longer lever throw, so a bit slower to fire, and more importantly (but rarely needed thankfully), typically 4-6 in the magazine versus 8-12. And yes there are revolvers so chambered, but no double action ones and none for realistic CCW use.

The 'most classic' surely goes to the oldest of the bunch, the 45-70. It can kind of do everything, but suffers from the same long-action, long-cartridge issues as the 444 Marlin. The tapered case probably feeds more smoothly than the 444 Marlin, but leaves bigger holes in sometimes marginally-designed receivers when it comes to strength.

Is there a compromise 'best overall' that combines the short pistol cartridge handiness and capacity with the added power of the long-action cartridges...? The 454 Casull might be that one. It clearly IS a 'revolver' cartridge, although the Super Redhawk is the only DA revolver I know of chambered in it. But at least it's 'compact and handy' compared to a 500 S&W X-frame...! The scary part is the PRESSURE needed to up the performance. Most leverguns aren't designed for that pressure (rotary-locking bolt ones excepted).

So if I just want the best levergun to combine handiness, capacity, and power, I'll shell out for a BHA 89, BUT if I want the option of a 'companion' handgun, without much power sacrifice, I'll take a Rossi 92 and Super Redhawk, or more likely a regular Redhawk in 45 Colt, just using the hotter longer-case Casull loads in the levergun', while able to use less stout loads in the revolver. I really dislike super heavy handgun loads anyway. Now in that case I could just go for a Rossi in 45 Colt knowing the action is strong so I can still load pretty 'hot'. But in that case why not just get a 44 Magnum, since it gives me even more handguns to choose from...?

As far as the 444 Marlin and 45-70, the revolvers out there make decent bear-defense guns, but are so ungainly why not just carry a 16-inch 'Trapper' style levergun and not bother with the revolver...? (Or perhaps the reverse; instead of trying to have a compact 4-6 shot levergun just rely on a Freedom Arms SA revolver in 444 Marlin or 45-70...?

Of course if all depends on what you're actually DOING. I'm not going to hunt grizzly or moose or run an Alaskan trap line, but I might hunt elk or hike in grizzly territory, so the toting of a 16" Rossi in 454 Casull would be a good solution. If I were really worried about a bear getting the drop on me I'd have a 10mm Glock, ignoring cartridge compatibility. And in that case depending on what I was hunting I might prefer my BHA-89 500 S&W, or leave leverguns out of the equation and use my 375 Ruger, since it is flatter shooting.

Having said all that, most of the time I'm just hanging around enjoying the humidity and mosquitos here in Indiana, and will grab my Marlin in 44 Magnum as my 'big bore' levergun.