44-40 use in the day

[mickbr]

The day being when it first came out. What was the average fella using his 1873 on back then, regards four legged targets. What was the general feeling around the calibre at the time. Its just a great new repeater, a big game option?

[OldWin]

I always assumed they used the old 44 for whatever they had to. Pretty much everything. Especially in the eastern half of the U.S. I'd wager there isn't anything in the country that hasn't been killed by the 44.
I always figured most people who purchased a brand new 1873, probably didn't have a lot of other rifles. I also figured it took longer to become common in the west, due to shipping and ammunition supply. I always thought that a big draw for it that you don't really hear about was the ability to reload your own ammunition. The advent of the tong tools must have been welcomed.
A good friend of mine has a picture taken locally of 3 men in front of a log cabin with several moose and caribou. All are armed with 1873s. The picture is from the 1880s.

[JimT]

I read a report by an early hunter in the 1880's who killed a Grizzly with an 1873 .44-40. He said that when he shot it the bear came at him but the rifle was so smooth to use that he was able to feed the bear nearly the whole magazine load and it was more than the bear could digest. It's been many years since I read that but I think it was Buffalo Bill Cody who wrote it.

[Bill in Oregon]

Jim, that would be this fella.

[Scott Tschirhart]

The .44 Henry Flat was a general purpose cartridge for a lot of folks as it was what was available prior to 1873. It lasted for quite a while as some folks (probably most) simply didn’t have a lot of money.

[earlmck]

I have a short biography written by a cousin of my great-grandfather. As a kid in Texas somebody loaned him a Henry to bring in some meat of which both deer and pigs were the potentials. He was successful, described the rifle as "the little popping 44" which I assumed meant he was not real impressed with the power of his cartridge. No mention made of the later 1873 and more powerful 44 WCF but I'll bet he would have been an early adopter. This was Joe McKinney who went on to be a lawman in Arizona as a big portion of the McKinney clan moved from Texas to southern Arizona in the 1880's

[jeepnik]

Most folks didn't amass a collection of firearms in the 1880's. They were tools. And while Hollywood portrays everyone carrying Colts and Winchesters the truth is percussion and even flintlocks were used until they wore out. And when bores shot or rusted out they would be disposed of. That's why relatively few remain.

Anyone buying a new rifle would pick a cartridge that would be as versatile as possible. The 44-40 fit the bill. Whether it walked on two or four legs a "family" rifle did it all.

[Malamute]

Charlie Russel wrote that his mentor Jake Hoover, a leftover mountain man, trapper, meat hunter and all around wilderness character who took him in when he was new in the Montana territory of the 1880s, used a 73. He mentioned that once they were on a mountain trail, and I believe a sow grizzly with several fair size cubs came along the trail towards them. Charlie wrote Hoover calmly shot the sow and younger bears each with a head shot, dropping them all in place.

Some period info showed targets shot at 300 yards with the 73. Today its common to say "They were designed for close up woods use" in relation to various models, when thats simply unsupported by any facts. They were considered capable guns to several hundred yards in the day. Another slightly offtopic example, info on the new 150 gr 30-30 loads showed differences between it and the 170 gr at 500 yards.

[Bryan Austin]

The day being when it first came out. What was the average fella using his 1873 on back then, regards four legged targets. What was the general feeling around the calibre at the time. Its just a great new repeater, a big game option?

Winchester's 1875 catalog has close to 80 published testimonials.... of by that time some one hundred and fifty thousand had been sold...from only six by late December 1873. The Winchester Model of 66' had at least 20 published testimonials.

The National Rifle Association had only six 73's in attendance, published in 1874, out of 250 rifles of all types represented. The 73' had the highest average score per rifle at 13.666 points per rifle.

The Winchester Model of 66' was taken to Switzerland during the Official Swiss Commission trials, in Aarau Switzerland in October of 1866. Targets to 1,000 meters were shot at. The average radius of hits were as follows;

300 paces/30 shots/30 hits @ 4" by the 66/6.6" by the Swiss Infantry rifle. I do believe the 73' would have out performed the 66'
400/30/30/6"/9"
500/31/31/12.5"/16"
600/30/30/10"/not noted
800/40/38/11.5"/24"
1,000/31/31/24"/34"

The 66' clearly beat the Swiss rifle

The 44 Henry cartridge producing 1,125fps
The 44 WCF cartridge producing 1,325fps

Modern 1,350fps loads maintained 950fp at 300 yards, using a 42798 based designed bullet by Accurate molds...the 43-214A.

Ethical by today's standards, no...will it kill...YES!

https://sites.google.com/view/44winches ... -the-44-40
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[.45colt]

I was Hoping that You would show up in this thread Bryan . You are wealth of knowledge on the 44-40. Thank You and Happy New Year.

[Bill in Oregon]

What .45Colt said.
And Earl, what a wonderful story.
I have been so blessed by being a member of this forum over the years.

[JimT]

The day being when it first came out. What was the average fella using his 1873 on back then, regards four legged targets. What was the general feeling around the calibre at the time. Its just a great new repeater, a big game option?

Winchester's 1875 catalog has close to 80 published testimonials.... of by that time some one hundred and fifty thousand had been sold...from only six by late December 1873. The Winchester Model of 66' had at least 20 published testimonials.

The National Rifle Association had only six 73's in attendance, published in 1874, out of 250 rifles of all types represented. The 73' had the highest average score per rifle at 13.666 points per rifle.

The Winchester Model of 66' was taken to Switzerland during the Official Swiss Commission trials, in Aarau Switzerland in October of 1866. Targets to 1,000 meters were shot at. The average radius of hits were as follows;

300 paces/30 shots/30 hits @ 4" by the 66/6.6" by the Swiss Infantry rifle. I do believe the 73' would have out performed the 66'
400/30/30/6"/9"
500/31/31/12.5"/16"
600/30/30/10"/not noted
800/40/38/11.5"/24"
1,000/31/31/24"/34"

The 66' clearly beat the Swiss rifle

The 44 Henry cartridge producing 1,125fps
The 44 WCF cartridge producing 1,325fps

Modern 1,350fps loads maintained 950fp at 300 yards, using a 42798 based designed bullet by Accurate molds...the 43-214A.

Ethical by today's standards, no...will it kill...YES!

https://sites.google.com/view/44winches ... -the-44-40
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Thank you for posting that. It is obvious that they did not believe the levergun or cartridge to be a "short range brush rifle" or that the levergun was not as accurate as other types.

[mickbr]

yes the fifth line down reads to me a 95% chance of a slug landing on your body at 800 paces if they have the range known. I dont want to be facing that.

[Bryan Austin]

yes the fifth line down reads to me a 95% chance of a slug landing on your body at 800 paces if they have the range known. I dont want to be facing that.

That is correct, and the whole point of the fact that the 44 slug at 300 yards is nothing to smirk at. It by no means performed like the .30 cal bullets of the time. Even Lt Col. Townsend Whelen comments on his experience with the 44-40.

This is from a 1920's magazine: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Th ... frontcover

The 44-40 was placed in Class D cartridges capable of 3 1/2" inches at 100 yards, 12" inches at 200 yards.

As I mentioned, my 1,350fps loads retained 925fps to 950fps impact velocities at 300 yards. I could care less about "everyone's" mathematic ballistic formulas, this was real life recorded velocities with a chronograph placed in front of the target at 300 yards. Revolver velocities at 300 yards. If 950fps impact velocity can not kill at 300 yards, it can not kill at the 950fps from the muzzle of a revolver either.

Not only that, but the trajectory angle at impact was also just 12 degrees.

Modern 44-40 factory hunting ammo barely mimics 44 Henry cartridge ballistics....of which was still nothing to ignore in it's heyday.

[Bryan Austin]

My experience with killing deer with the 44-40 is, double lung shots, track up to 100 yards.

Poop out the butt, blood out the lungs at 85 yards...dead is dead

472146098_2808827165944756_4540507031602462035_n.jpg

[oldebear1950]

my two grandpas were town marshalls or city sheriffs, back in the oil boom days in Oklahoma, during the 1920s and 1930s, As their working guns they both carried COLT SAA IN 44-40s and one carried a winchester 73 in 44-40, and the other carried a Marlin in the same caliber.
They always said they never felt under gunned, and if they needed more firepower was always shotguns, and in the case of Oklahoma City, was a couple of BARs and one Thompson in 38 super.
When I was 10 and my brother was 8, my Moms dad felt it was time for us to learn how to shoot, and the responsibility of using a gun. Those lessons remain as valid today as they did back then.
He also taught us to clean them after using them. I still do that today.

[Drawdown]

One the better articles I've read in long time was a back issue of Rifle Magazine, I forget but aprox 1990 or so, but written by Ken Waters. It was all about his Grandfather. In short, it was from aprox 1880's well into 1900,s, a good 40 year span at least+-? But he told of his grandpa's yearly fall trips in the Adirondacks, usually by canoe and on his lonesome weeks at a time. But he always took a custom order 1873 44-40, a custom 1876 45-60, and a Double barrel Shotgun of which make I forget? But he used his 44-40 for deer, the vast majority shot at a usual distance from the canoe. He stated his regular strategy was a broadside lung shot, and most always found his deer 50-100yds in timber, confident of this! He used the 45-60 then fir Blackbear, and the Shotgun for Smallgame. He was well known to be successful every year, and Ken told the loads he used, even duplicated his loads best he could with modern components, to use himself often in his grandpa rifles which he then possessed himself. He couldn't bare to retire his grandpa's rifle, conscious wouldn't let him! It's a great article, same I'd feel! But the old 44-40 served both well!
I have 0 experience with a 44-40 but regretfully so, I'd never doubt one within reasonable ranges!

[mickbr]

yes the fifth line down reads to me a 95% chance of a slug landing on your body at 800 paces if they have the range known. I dont want to be facing that.

That is correct, and the whole point of the fact that the 44 slug at 300 yards is nothing to smirk at. It by no means performed like the .30 cal bullets of the time. Even Lt Col. Townsend Whelen comments on his experience with the 44-40.

This is from a 1920's magazine: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Th ... frontcover

The 44-40 was placed in Class D cartridges capable of 3 1/2" inches at 100 yards, 12" inches at 200 yards.

As I mentioned, my 1,350fps loads retained 925fps to 950fps impact velocities at 300 yards. I could care less about "everyone's" mathematic ballistic formulas, this was real life recorded velocities with a chronograph placed in front of the target at 300 yards. Revolver velocities at 300 yards. If 950fps impact velocity can not kill at 300 yards, it can not kill at the 950fps from the muzzle of a revolver either.

Not only that, but the trajectory angle at impact was also just 12 degrees.

Modern 44-40 factory hunting ammo barely mimics 44 Henry cartridge ballistics....of which was still nothing to ignore in it's heyday.

Bryan, where did the High velocity loads fit into the 44-40's story. I often wondered if they gave the cartridge somewhat of a boost in popularity again, fellas who had hung up a 44-40 years ago, taking it back outta the rack again. Or was it more just die hard fellas who were still using it

[Bryan Austin]

The 44-40 W.H.V. was manufactured from 1903 until WWII, some 40 years, so it had to be good. Using original Sharpshooter powder from dissected cartridges, the only 10 HV loads I could test grouped 3.2" at 50 yards @ 1,568fps (original Winchester .4255" JSP bullets from a .429" bore). Original loads were advertised at 1,564fps!!! Just as a reminder, I can get 3.5" groups with 1,350fps loads at 100 yards. Also my pressure test #86 produced 15,583psi, which should be close to 18,420cup. Winchester's 44 HV data in 1917 showed a service pressure of 18,000cup. Pretty dang close! Any time you see anyone talk about the 44 WHV loads being 22,000cup is very inaccurate.

In short;
My 44 WHV Tests

10 shots
1,568fps (originals 1,564fps)
18,420cup (original 18,000cup)

50 yards
10 shot 3.3" group (original unknown)

471928348_2269449823435247_4304537484464880878_n (1).jpg

[Grizz]

Bryan, Kudos on your investigations and thoroughness. I am enjoying your work and your web site. And skills.

grizz

[mickbr]

yes, Bryan and also Ed Harris, who I have emailed more than a couple times. two of my favorite gun guys and both willing to share the knowledge