Browning 92 finicky. Edit with fix.

[TedH]

After total teardown and cleaning of the pawn shop Browning, I started putting together some loads to try out. I'm finding this is the most temperamental levergun I have ever had as far as the transition from magazine to chamber. 240 gr Hornady XTP are probably the best, but even those loads are not what I would call smooth feeding. Nothing I have tried really feeds well, or even acceptably. So now I'm wondering if it's the nature of the Browning copy of the 92's, or if there is an issue with this particular gun. OAL has to be quite short, which automatically rules out a lot of my various bullets, like the RCBS SWC, Lee RN, and the big Lee 310 gr is nowhere close to making the transition. I have some 240 gr. PPU JHP bullets that feed the best, and they have a similar profile to the Hornady XTP, but they are not very accurate. I ordered some 240 JSP from Everglades Ammo that appear to have a short nose forward of the crimp groove, I'm hoping they will do the trick. https://www.evergladesammo.com/bulle ... ts.html

EDIT to add fix

After careful examination of working rounds through very slowly it seemed that all the hang up was being caused by the lifter bringing the nose of the cartridge up too high, regardless of bullet profile.

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The lifter stopped upward travel on contact with the right cartridge guide.

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I removed the right cartridge guide and made a little form with aluminum tape, and filled that end of the guide that contacts the lifter with JB Weld.

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After it cured overnight I carefully filed it down, leaving about .050" on the angled surface that meets the lifter.

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With everything reassembled, all cartridges with bullets that are short enough to make the transition out of the mag tube enters the chamber without so much as a hiccup. Even these new big fat nose thumpers. The JB Weld was intended to just be a trial and see if my theory was correct and could be easily reversible if it didn't work. So I will probably take that cartridge guide back out and reconstruct this profile of the guide with actual weld.

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Now time to start some accuracy testing since I have a lot more options. These big flat nose 240's should shoot great since they are actually. 431", and that's what this bore slugs out at.

[GunnyMack]

Please explain how it's acting, from tube to lifter or lifter to chamber.
I'd suggest taking it apart and looking for areas that need polishing( look for brass/copper/lead smears) . Heck go ahead and polish all the feeding parts. If needed you could use a smoke lamp on the internals, reassemble and then try feeding, take it apart and look for smears.

[JimT]

In the Model 1892 Winchester the cartridges come from the magazine to the barrel at a fairly steep angle. To make feeding smooth, the rear of the cartridge must be lifted to be in line with the chamber. This is done by means of a Left and Right Cartridge Guide. As the cartridge is pushed up the lifter to the chamber, the rims of the cartridge enter the Guides. As the cartridge is pushed forward the Guides lift the rear of the cartridge, aligning it with the chamber.

If there is excessive clearance, the lifting of the rear of the cartridge takes place later in the chambering stroke. The tighter the clearance the earlier the lifting takes place during the chambering stroke. Balky chambering .. where the lever must be jiggled back and forth a little to get the cartridge to chamber .. is often caused by excessive clearance at the rim end of the cartridge WHEN IT IS LAYING IN THE LIFTER, ready to be pushed.

My personal experience has been that installing a shim on the right Cartridge Guide, just aft of the screw, smoothed the feeding. My Rossi rifle would not feed .357's smoothly. It hung up and I had to jiggle the lever a bit to get them to feed. Even roundnose bullets. I called Steve Young and talked with him and he told me I needed to check the clearance of the right Cartridge Guide. He said it should be around .005” but that he bet it was a lot larger.

I checked the clearance and the front clearance was fine but the rear was .015" or .016" as close as I could tell. I cut a small piece of shim from the .008" blade of my feeler gauge and installed it. Immediately feeding was smooth and normal! The gun feeds Sem-Wadcutter bullets in both .38 Special and .357 Magnum. I am happy with it. The shim was installed so it would hold the rear of the right Cartridge Guide .. which means it was to the rear of the Guide screw. It was a very small piece. To hold it onto the Guide as I installed the Guide in the receiver I smeared some grease on the back of the Guide and pressed the shim into it.

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[TedH]

Thanks Jim for the detailed info. I have been trying different bullets in 44 Spl brass, and they all feed good, even the SWC. So it seems the difficulty is due to OAL and nose profile.

[JFE]

I have a couple of B92’s and neither exhibit the feeding behaviour you mention.

It’s worth noting that the original 92 was chambered for mildly ‘bottlenecked’ cartridges, which would help with the feeding. It’s only the later models that were chambered for straight wall cases.

One modification often suggested is applying a slight chamfer at the breech end of the chamber. This helps with feeding SWC bullet styles by easing the entry into the chamber.

[TedH]

Please explain how it's acting, from tube to lifter or lifter to chamber.
I'd suggest taking it apart and looking for areas that need polishing( look for brass/copper/lead smears) . Heck go ahead and polish all the feeding parts. If needed you could use a smoke lamp on the internals, reassemble and then try feeding, take it apart and look for smears.

Lifter to chamber. The nose gets hung up entering the chamber before the rim enters the cartridge guide slots. 44 Special rounds feed perfectly with any bullet profile.

[GunnyMack]

I'd start by swimming like Jim suggested. Of course polishing can't hurt either!
The extra length of a mag case puts the pivot farther forward and it's dipping down under its own weight which is the cause of not feeding.

[Sixgun]

“After total tear down of the Pawnshop B-92”……….did you remove the cartridge guides? Just because there’s a milled slot in the receiver doesn’t mean they will go back there exactly…….I leave cartridge guides alone. Sometimes the junk that’s in there was put there intentionally by the factory…….its not the old days of hand fitting. You could have got one that was milled with the last cutting of that particular mill bit.

After trying Jim T’s excellent advice and it still don’t work, use 44 Spl brass or start cutting down 44 mags .020 at a time until you reach the sweet spot and keep that brass separate. …..,.or do what I would do…good bye…

Just my opinion, but I never could understand why people go to these huge 300 grain+ bullets for all around play shooting which 99.99 percent of all shooting is,…..a simple round nose bullet in the designed weight works every time in any gun………could you imagine the Secret Service using 9mm. 200 grain semi wad cutters in their MP-5’s?

[TedH]

“After total tear down of the Pawnshop B-92”……….did you remove the cartridge guides? Just because there’s a milled slot in the receiver doesn’t mean they will go back there exactly…….I leave cartridge guides alone.

Those were the only parts i did not remove. I forgot my dang feeler gauges at work today. Can't find my other set I had here at home. Feel like I loaned them out to someone a while back. Now remembering who that was could be a challenge.

[Sixgun]

“After total tear down of the Pawnshop B-92”……….did you remove the cartridge guides? Just because there’s a milled slot in the receiver doesn’t mean they will go back there exactly…….I leave cartridge guides alone.

Those were the only parts i did not remove. I forgot my dang feeler gauges at work today. Can't find my other set I had here at home. Feel like I loaned them out to someone a while back. Now remembering who that was could be a challenge.

Matchbook covers are around .015…..gorilla glue tape around .010……cheap duct tape……006———

You could always back the screw out 1 turn, if the head doesn’t protrude out, stick something behind it and test. It’s not science. Personally, I’d just use 44 Spl brass and seat to 1.590 or whatever a factory 44 mag is. SWC’s can be problematic in any levergun except the 1873. A round nose bumped a bit in a lubrisizer using something flat will suffice……just think it out as it’s all mechanical……

[Pat C]

Ted, Any chance getting a close up picture inside the B92 with carrier pushed down ,both sides.

[TedH]

I think I have it figured out. I'm working on a fix. I'll update if it works.

[LeverGunner]

Quite interesting, I'm watching to see the fix.

My new made Winchester feeds SWCs fine in special brass, but of course they are too long for magnum brass. It feeds round flat style bullets good in magnum brass. I've considered doing some modifications to get the acceptable OAL just a but longer, as I wish it'd feed my RCBS 44-240-SWC, and it's just a touch long. I can jiggle it and get it to come up through the frame. I can't get the RCBS 44-250-K up at all, it's just too long.

[TedH]

Quite interesting, I'm watching to see the fix.

Turned out to be pretty simple fix. I added it in the original post with pics.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

[LeverGunner]

Thanks for sharing your findings.

[GunnyMack]

As one of my instructors said," it doesn't hurt to try" . You tried and it worked. Now try to find the right guide and weld on that one, save the orignal( just incase you have a major FUBAR. Also you'll have a model to work from.
IF the guides are chromoly steel they won't weld great- pin holes are common . Silver soldier would probably be strong enough but you would have to make up the part you are adding. Heck you could probably just add a blob of braze and shape it but then the risk of ruining heat treat ( if any).
Or just leave the JB and shoot the gun!

[35 Whelen]

Quite interesting, I'm watching to see the fix.

My new made Winchester feeds SWCs fine in special brass, but of course they are too long for magnum brass. It feeds round flat style bullets good in magnum brass. I've considered doing some modifications to get the acceptable OAL just a but longer, as I wish it'd feed my RCBS 44-240-SWC, and it's just a touch long. I can jiggle it and get it to come up through the frame. I can't get the RCBS 44-250-K up at all, it's just too long.

I recently bought a '92 Rossi in .44 Magnum that exhibited feeding problems such as you are describing, especially when loading bullets of the 429421 design and the RCBS 44-250KT, which is my favorite. So here's what I did-

I first took a little off of the face of what I would call the cartridge stop on the carrier which allows the cartridge to come a little bit farther out of the magazine. Not much, but every little bit helps.



The magazine cartridge stop was the real culprit-



so I polished and removed some metal from its underside. I also polished and chamfered the top of the magazine tube-



After these modifications the rifle smoothly and easily fed cartridges loaded with the 429421 and if I worked the lever with vigor, it would feed those loaded with the RCBS 44-250 KT. If you really want use the 44-250, I'd suggest trimming your brass back around .0010" which might allow for enough clearance for them to feed.

Good luck!

[LeverGunner]

Quite interesting, I'm watching to see the fix.

My new made Winchester feeds SWCs fine in special brass, but of course they are too long for magnum brass. It feeds round flat style bullets good in magnum brass. I've considered doing some modifications to get the acceptable OAL just a but longer, as I wish it'd feed my RCBS 44-240-SWC, and it's just a touch long. I can jiggle it and get it to come up through the frame. I can't get the RCBS 44-250-K up at all, it's just too long.

I recently bought a '92 Rossi in .44 Magnum that exhibited feeding problems such as you are describing, especially when loading bullets of the 429421 design and the RCBS 44-250KT, which is my favorite. So here's what I did-

I first took a little off of the face of what I would call the cartridge stop on the carrier which allows the cartridge to come a little bit farther out of the magazine. Not much, but every little bit helps.



The magazine cartridge stop was the real culprit-



so I polished and removed some metal from its underside. I also polished and chamfered the top of the magazine tube-



After these modifications the rifle smoothly and easily fed cartridges loaded with the 429421 and if I worked the lever with vigor, it would feed those loaded with the RCBS 44-250 KT. If you really want use the 44-250, I'd suggest trimming your brass back around .0010" which might allow for enough clearance for them to feed.

Good luck!

Thank you very much for sharing that with pictures.