Bullet alloy for cast bullets

[Johnnyjr]

Not sure where I seen it at,but
Read that softer bullets perform
A lot better than the harder bullets.
Does anyone find this to be a true
Fact or just hear say..thanks. Johnny

[Walt]

Johnny, it depends on the velocity you intend to shoot them. Softer bullets seal the bore better at low velocities but as the velocity increases the rifling strips lead from the bullets and it is deposited in the barrel. Higher velocities require harder bullets to avoid leading the barrel.

There are lots of variables like the bullet lube, the condition of the barrel, the profile of the bullet and the type of powder being used. Bullets with gas checks are not so sensitive to velocity changes so leading can be eliminated altogether.

[6pt-sika]

I’ve killed a pretty decent amount of deer with cast bullets in the 444 and 45-70 as well as lesser numbers in most of the other typical Marlin lever cartridges . And all I ever used was straight alloy of clip on wheel weights . I will say in a couple instances I water quenched , but that was most likely unnecessary . For shotgun slugs punkin balls and buckshot I usually use half pure half WW’s and that’s done very nicely as well . Initially with the buckshot I cast I water dropped them but I no longer do that .

[Johnnyjr]

I appreciate your replies. It all makes sense now.

I am working with the 358429 bullets. They have to be seated a little deeper in order to function in the action. I wonder how much this will effect the pressure in the 357 cases. Of course I don't plan on pushing the max velocity. Any comments on this one. Thanks, Johnny

[Griff]

I appreciate your replies. It all makes sense now.
I am working with the 358429 bullets. They have to be seated a little deeper in order to function in the action. I wonder how much this will effect the pressure in the 357 cases. Of course I don't plan on pushing the max velocity. Any comments on this one. Thanks, Johnny

Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition, has load data for the 358429 in the "rifle" section. Their test rifle was a Winchester 94AE.

While I normally only load for cowboy action, I also load some of my 45 Colt loads for hunting, but I limit my velocity to around 1400 using straight wheel weights.

[1894cfan]

I could be wrong in this, but Elmer Keith mostly used 1-16 lead alloy for whatever he was shooting, even 357 mags. Even Skeeter Skelton used that same alloy mostly with the Lyman 358156GC bullet. HTH

[marlinman93]

If the bullet is sized properly to the bore then a harder bullet works better than softer bullets. And of course bullet lube has much to do with leading also. A good lube star on the crown of your barrel indicates your lube is making it all the way down the bore, and doing it's job well.
Bullets that are too soft and pushed at even velocities of BP levels will get bullet slump on firing if they're too soft. This might not be a big deal at 200 yds. or less, but it sure affects accuracy out further!
Lyman manuals mention a 1:20 ratio of tin to lead, but I like my bullets for long range shooting to be much harder. Info published after the 1874 Creedmoor matches showed most of the winning US team members used bullets cast as hard as 1:11 mix! I figure if those guys back then shot 800-1000 yds. and won with bullets that hard they might know something I don't.
All my old rifles get loads at around 1350 fps. I've found that to be best accuracy, and no issues with leading at all. My bullets are cast with lead/tin mix that's around 1:14 mix.

[Twodot]

I appreciate your replies. It all makes sense now.

I am working with the 358429 bullets. They have to be seated a little deeper in order to function in the action. I wonder how much this will effect the pressure in the 357 cases. Of course I don't plan on pushing the max velocity. Any comments on this one. Thanks, Johnny

do you have access to a Lyman Reloading Handbook?
It has sections on .357 Mag in Rifle, Handgun & TC Contender.
Data includes cartridge overall length with each listed bullet, including your 358429.
No pressure numbers given but it is interesting to compare starting and maximum loads for each firearm type.
..

[Scott Tschirhart]

I prefer a softer alloy. BUT I don’t push my handguns too hard.

If you have a properly sized bullet and a good gooey lube, you don’t need a very hard bullet.

I have several hundred pounds of pure French lead in sheets that are probably 5/8 thick and about a foot square. These were ballast in an airplane and I picked them up at the San Antonio airport.

Mix a little tin in with your alloy and you can make great bullets.

[junkbug]

Didn’t Elmer Keith always write about using alloys with only lead and tin? No antimony. Never remember him writing about using wheel-weight or Lino-type.
But my memory is not perfect.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I’m betting that in Elmer’s time there wasn’t much antimony around.

[6pt-sika]

I appreciate your replies. It all makes sense now.

I am working with the 358429 bullets. They have to be seated a little deeper in order to function in the action. I wonder how much this will effect the pressure in the 357 cases. Of course I don't plan on pushing the max velocity. Any comments on this one. Thanks, Johnny

A friend gave me a Lyman double cavity mold for a 215 grain SWC GC bullet . I was told it was initially made for the IHMSA guys to use in the 357 MAX . It was given to me for trial in the 356 WIN and 35 REM which I never used it for . I did however try it in a Dan Wesson 357 MAX and a Contender also in MAX . Later on I loaded a bunch of them in 357 MAG to use in a Marlin 1894CP and an 1894 CB and of course I had to seat them plenty deep to function thru the action . And as expected velocity wasn’t screaming . They did however shoot very well at 50 and 100 yards . My idea behind all this was to plunk a deer using the bullet in both rifles but sold them both before I ever got around to it .

[6pt-sika]

Didn’t Elmer Keith always write about using alloys with only lead and tin? No antimony. Never remember him writing about using wheel-weight or Lino-type.
But my memory is not perfect.

Dunno about him ! But when I first started I was u der the delusion that everything needed to be Lyman #2 and some friends that used to live in PA clued me in on that one PDQ as all I was planning on doing was lever silhouette and possibly kill some deer . I was told straight clip on WW’s would do the trick and it was way simpler . About the only time I ever really needed to do anything was for bullets in the 345-380 grain range for the 444 in the slow twist Micro Groove barrels , and water dropping them seemed to cure that ailment . Think I killed 12-18 deer with cast bullets in that weight range in several 444 micro guns . Some folks might tend to say that was a fluke , but I’d tried those bullets in close to two dozen different 444 micro guns (I used to collect them).

[Grizz]

Didn’t Elmer Keith always write about using alloys with only lead and tin? No antimony. Never remember him writing about using wheel-weight or Lino-type.
But my memory is not perfect.

Dunno about him ! But when I first started I was u der the delusion that everything needed to be Lyman #2 and some friends that used to live in PA clued me in on that one PDQ as all I was planning on doing was lever silhouette and possibly kill some deer . I was told straight clip on WW’s would do the trick and it was way simpler . About the only time I ever really needed to do anything was for bullets in the 345-380 grain range for the 444 in the slow twist Micro Groove barrels , and water dropping them seemed to cure that ailment . Think I killed 12-18 deer with cast bullets in that weight range in several 444 micro guns . Some folks might tend to say that was a fluke , but I’d tried those bullets in close to two dozen different 444 micro guns (I used to collect them).

what about lyman2 for bullets ? i have some but have never made bullet. i cast some round balls out of scrap lead, that's it. thanks, grizz

[Scott Tschirhart]

I used to cast a lot of bullets out of straight wheel weights as I had a friend that had a busy tire shop and I got as much of that as I could haul for free.

Toward the end though, I noticed that there was some variation and I suspect that there was some extra sink added to the mix.

I went to a straight mix of lead and tin when I was shooting the Sharps rifle regularly.

[Walt]

I used wheel weights exclusively for decades and used to just dump the weights into my furnace and then clean out the dross but I quit that when I must have gotten one or more zinc weights into the mix. The bullets I cast from that mix crumbled in many cases and were generally unusable. I wasted the entire 20# pot and had to dispose of it. I later read that even a tiny proportion of zinc in a pot of lead would terminally contaminate it. At that point i began reading each weight to ascertain its makeup and dump the ones that weren't lead alloy. I believe the Obama administration was responsible for shutting down most of the lead foundries in the US. Now I buy my premixed lead alloy (BN18) direct from a foundry for bullets that I gas check and other plain-base bullets that I either want to shoot at higher velocities or want to size at larger diameters than are available from bulk bullet suppliers. It's more expensive than the old scraap weights but I know what it is and it pours very nicely.

[6pt-sika]

Didn’t Elmer Keith always write about using alloys with only lead and tin? No antimony. Never remember him writing about using wheel-weight or Lino-type.
But my memory is not perfect.

Dunno about him ! But when I first started I was u der the delusion that everything needed to be Lyman #2 and some friends that used to live in PA clued me in on that one PDQ as all I was planning on doing was lever silhouette and possibly kill some deer . I was told straight clip on WW’s would do the trick and it was way simpler . About the only time I ever really needed to do anything was for bullets in the 345-380 grain range for the 444 in the slow twist Micro Groove barrels , and water dropping them seemed to cure that ailment . Think I killed 12-18 deer with cast bullets in that weight range in several 444 micro guns . Some folks might tend to say that was a fluke , but I’d tried those bullets in close to two dozen different 444 micro guns (I used to collect them).

what about lyman2 for bullets ? i have some but have never made bullet. i cast some round balls out of scrap lead, that's it. thanks, grizz

When I first started I read all I could find and it seemed for what I wanted to do most all were slanted towards Lyman #2 . And my newly acquired lead supply was ALL clip on WW’s , Lyman gives you recipes to make #2 from this that or the other . The easiest of my memory serves was to get plumbers bar solder which wasn’t inexpensive at the time . After some enlightening from a couple fellows that had pursued the same thing I wanted to do , I took their word for it and used straight WW’s , sixty to seventy deer and two bear later no complaints . Again for overweight bullets for micro groove the water dropping seemed to toughen up the exterior enough to where they held and shot well inside my parameters . But sizing a bit large may have had just as much to do with gripping the micro groove as any hardness in the exterior of the slugs .

[6pt-sika]

I used to cast a lot of bullets out of straight wheel weights as I had a friend that had a busy tire shop and I got as much of that as I could haul for free.

Toward the end though, I noticed that there was some variation and I suspect that there was some extra sink added to the mix.

I went to a straight mix of lead and tin when I was shooting the Sharps rifle regularly.

I started casting around 2000 , like you I had two friends that had tire shops. Before I ever cast the first bullet I acquired several tons of WW’s . I’d say well before zinc entered the picture . And I’ve never added much since other than old ingots from other folks that gave up casting . I suspect I still have about a ton of lead left . God knows how many .44 cal bullets I have sitting on the shelf waiting to be loaded .

[Grizz]

Didn’t Elmer Keith always write about using alloys with only lead and tin? No antimony. Never remember him writing about using wheel-weight or Lino-type.
But my memory is not perfect.

Dunno about him ! But when I first started I was u der the delusion that everything needed to be Lyman #2 and some friends that used to live in PA clued me in on that one PDQ as all I was planning on doing was lever silhouette and possibly kill some deer . I was told straight clip on WW’s would do the trick and it was way simpler . About the only time I ever really needed to do anything was for bullets in the 345-380 grain range for the 444 in the slow twist Micro Groove barrels , and water dropping them seemed to cure that ailment . Think I killed 12-18 deer with cast bullets in that weight range in several 444 micro guns . Some folks might tend to say that was a fluke , but I’d tried those bullets in close to two dozen different 444 micro guns (I used to collect them).

what about lyman2 for bullets ? i have some but have never made bullet. i cast some round balls out of scrap lead, that's it. thanks, grizz

When I first started I read all I could find and it seemed for what I wanted to do most all were slanted towards Lyman #2 . And my newly acquired lead supply was ALL clip on WW’s , Lyman gives you recipes to make #2 from this that or the other . The easiest of my memory serves was to get plumbers bar solder which wasn’t inexpensive at the time . After some enlightening from a couple fellows that had pursued the same thing I wanted to do , I took their word for it and used straight WW’s , sixty to seventy deer and two bear later no complaints . Again for overweight bullets for micro groove the water dropping seemed to toughen up the exterior enough to where they held and shot well inside my parameters . But sizing a bit large may have had just as much to do with gripping the micro groove as any hardness in the exterior of the slugs .

thanks very much for that info. i have a 44 ranch-dog mold that i got for the hand gun in case i run out of BTB. i went back to rotometals to price the Lyman2 alloy. using best case shipping cost scenario, the lead for 500 bullets would cost more than buying 500 bullets from someone who casts with #2.

i plan to cast some #1 Buck, some 69 caliber round ball, and some 44 bullets for the special-scenario case from the ingots i have, and buy any other bullets i use.
.
oddly i did cold-mold some round ball with scrap lead from a gill net, not pretty, but round-ish, will fit into 12Ga hulls, and i guess will damage whatever they might encounter.
.

cold-molded-balls.jpeg

.
thanks and kudos to all you'all who are skilled at alloying lead and customizing your metals. it's a great skill, but one i can't afford to follow. like, i would be using time i could put into the baritone uku, or moto, etc.

[pcmacd]

I appreciate your replies. It all makes sense now.
I am working with the 358429 bullets. They have to be seated a little deeper in order to function in the action. I wonder how much this will effect the pressure in the 357 cases. Of course I don't plan on pushing the max velocity. Any comments on this one. Thanks, Johnny

Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition, has load data for the 358429 in the "rifle" section. Their test rifle was a Winchester 94AE.

While I normally only load for cowboy action, I also load some of my 45 Colt loads for hunting, but I limit my velocity to around 1400 using straight wheel weights.

I put a buncha foundry type (15% tin 23% antimony) in my checked rifle loads and shoot them at jacketed velocities.

[Tycer]

http://lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

There’s a ton more on the lasc site.

[Grizz]

http://lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

There’s a ton more on the lasc site.

Thank you. I lost the bookmark and forgot all about that site.