Is Reloading Getting Too Expensive to Consider?

[COSteve]

Besides the components being in short supply, we all are painfully aware that the prices have gone through the roof! What you may not be aware of is that the prices of the equipment is also rising rapidly. My Dillon set, while extensive after 25 yrs of acquisitions, is also getting so expensive that I'm not sure that I could justify buying it today.

Dillon has raised the prices of some of their equipment as of today, October 1st. I believe that they'll do what they did in 2021 and raise the prices again in January, 2025 especially now that the dock strike is on and inflation will almost certainly ramp up again combined with shortages and empty shelves at the stores this fall.

To give you an indication, just the Dillon equipment I have (XL750 w/Casefeeder, 9 Caliber Conversions, 9 Quick Change kits, Strong Mount, Aluminum Roller Handle, Rapid Trim trimmer, Super Swage, D-Terminator Scale, 14 Toolheads, Dies, etc., etc.) cost me a total of $3,049 over the 25 years I acquired it.

When I sold my 650 and bought the 750 in January, 2020 it was worth a retail price of $5,464 and today, just 4¾ years later it's retail worth is $7,329. That's a price growth since January 2020, just 4¾ years ago, of 34.15%!!!

[JimT]

Since I am using tools that I purchased 30 to 40 years ago, cast my own bullets using reclaimed lead, a lot of my reloading for centerfire handguns costs about the same as buying .22 Long Rifle ammo.

[Grizz]

for 45/70, i make dinero when i reload them, compared to store-bought. some of my ammo was stocked at low price points, and the components were also. I dollar cost average into some loaded ammo, like 45 S and 50 Beo, which I haven't started reloading yet. I get good benchmarks from Underwood.

for poop-hits-the-propellor scenarios i have a 44 cal ranchdog mold, a #1 Buck mold, and a 69 cal round ball mold. that's my fallback. i suppose i should get a 45 cal mold too i guess. idk. i figure no one is going to last long when the million man chicom army is triggered. one trained squad can neutralize any lone shooter. with grenades and mortars - - - the grim reality of the grim reaper.

grizz

[GunnyMack]

I'd say rifle and pistol reloading is still much cheaper, case in point I recently bought 2 boxes of 257Roberts at $49/ box. Just to get some new brass. Last pound of powder i got was about the same price but at 7000 to the pound, say 40gr per load i get 175 rounds for that 49 bucks.

Where there is even less savings anymore is shotshell reloading, West Coast Magnum shot last I bought was 45 bucks a bag. With my 24 gram bunker load is about 450 shells or 1 tournament worth of ammo!

Probably why I enjoy the 25-20, 218 Bee and Hornet so much, they sip powder!

[LeverGunner]

Saying you can't afford to get into reloading because a Dillion setup is too expensive is like saying you can't afford your own car because a Corvette is too expensive.

I never considered the cost of equipment when getting into reloading. I have always bought used equipment and reloaded on a single stage press. You can get everything you need from scratch to load 1 caliber for about $150.

Reloading is less for me about cost and more about availability. If 9mm, 223, and 308 were the calibers I liked, it'd make more sense to buy ammo than to make it. Especially if you consider the time involved.

The guns I like don't come in those calibers, however. 44 Special, 30-30, 44 Magnum, and 357 Magnum are all expensive, with 44 Special being somewhat obscure. 30-30 used to be the least expensive centerfire rifle caliber save for the military calibers, but with the last shortage, they realized that they were charging only about 50% of what folks are willing to pay.

Reloading opens up a world where ammo availability is not an issue. I don't consider whether or not I can get ammo for a new potential gun purchase. I know that as long as I can get brass, I can make ammo.

Another factor for me is that it's a hobby unto itself. Some folks don't care what gun they have, as long as they are making noise with it on the weekends. Others only care about the end result; A tiny group or a downed game animal. I get into my guns deeper than that. I like the mechanics, the history, the cartridges. I get satisfaction out of making my ammunition and knowing what I have.

I detest the idea of taking a game animal with a borrowed rifle or shooting a tiny group with an ugly gun. I'd much rather hunt and be unsuccessful with a levergun, than to kill my query with a borrowed AR15. The same as I'd rather settle for 2" groups with a beautiful lever action, than to have 1/2" groups with a generic bolt action in a plastic stock.

[FLINT]

I asked this same question a year or so ago, when reloading components were unobtainable. They still kind of are or are stupid expensive. I finally just paid probably way too much to get some WLR primers. l

I plan to only reload cartridges that are obsolete or effectively obsolete. Unfortunately, I have several of those.

This summer I watched for sales and free shipping and stocked up on 30-30, 30-06, 357, and even some 35 rem. There were some pretty good sales this summer and when combined with free shipping, I feel pretty good about what I got for the money. Starting Sept. 1, midways prices went up 50% on a bunch of their 30-30 and 30-06 ammo, so I've slowed way down now.

so my plan is for the common stuff that can be had for $20-$30 per box (30-30, 30-06), I'll not mess with wasting powder and primers on reloading

the middle tier is the ~$50/box stuff, which for me is stuff like 35 rem, 300 sav, 32 special. I'll probably reload some and buy some factory stuff if good deals can be had

but then the ~$100+/box and/or totally obsolete stuff like 38-55, 348 win, 32-40, etc. will have to be reload only.

oh yeah, and I try not to look at the prices of cartridges that I stupidly don't have like 9mm, 223, 308, since those are practically handed out for free - at least compared to the stuff I have to buy.

[4t5]

https://www.natchezss.com/lee-breech-lo ... 0rd-per-hr

[Rockrat]

On some things like 9mm, maybe be cheaper to buy, but for so much else, reloading is a lot cheaper. I can load 45-70 350gr lead bullet loads for about $8 a box, vs the gun show price this last weekend of $60 a box. Hate to think what a box of 32-20 cost, or 44-40 or 45 Colt, but bet I can save a lot of $$ on that. Loaded a lot on a Lee hand press and a Lee priming tool. Rockchucker at this last show was about $100.

[earlmck]

It just sounds expensive to us olde pharts -- we are stuck thinking of these things as "dollars" when they have actually devalued to be more like yen. Or pesos. What looks like a "dollar" is really just a dime. Took me a while to get my old head wrapped around this little factoid but when I finally did I jumped on some cheap powder. Laid in a bunch of H335 for $4.50/lb and RL7 at $7/lb. Feel pretty dang good about getting re-stocked on a couple of my stalwarts. Now need to keep an eye out for RL10x. And I'm not sure I have a lifetime supply of Lil' Gun so might grab another jug of that while is still so cheap. I'm suspecting they are gouging us for primers at $8 to $10/thousand but will suck it up and get some of those also to keep away from lackaprimer worries.

[TedH]

Most of my loading is not done to save money. I like to fine tune loads for a particular firearm, and I enjoy the process. That's one of the things I like the most actually. I own several guns that I bought, spent some time shooting them finding the best load, and haven't shot them since. Maybe I should sell them all and start over?

[JimT]

And as my friend John Taffin says, "It's only money. Six months from now you won't miss it."

[Scott Tschirhart]

I really enjoy reloading and my old Dillon 550b has paid for itself many times over. Like Jim says, I bought this machine in the 1980s and I can’t remember what I paid.

I can’t tell you how many thousands of rounds I’ve loaded on it.

[jeepnik]

I started with hand me downs. I started my kids with Lyman kits that had everything you needed to reload one cartridge. They both chose 9mm.

What can I say the Marines brainwashed them.

If I were starting out today I think I would probably go with something like that. Then just add as finances allow. Which is pretty much what I did after the hand me downs got me started.

[44shooter]

I would say with that with recurrent ammo supply issues and resulting high prices, it is too expensive not to consider reloading. Yes we still need consumable supplies, but components have a degree of flexibility. Also you can keep making the same load. Factory loads are often discontinued, changed, unavailable, or very expensive.

[jeepnik]

As to making the same load, That's pretty much what I do. I might have a couple of loads in any given caliber if my "standard" load didn't work well. But I've never like experimenting. I'm also not so anal that I try to wring the last fps or % moa out of a cartridge/gun combination. Every single thing I load is comfortably away from the top loads listed in the reloading manuals.

[LeverGunner]

I like the experimentation aspect of reloading. But I tend to find loads I like and stick with them for most of my needs. I have some go to loads for all the calibers I load. I like having more go to loads than I have.

I remember one day me and a buddy we gun store hopping, and we saw a Winchester 71. He doesn't reload, so it was off the table for him. I didn't buy it, but the gun store was trying hard to sell it to me.

The same friend once paid over $60 for a 50 round box of 38 specials. I offered to help him get into reloading, offering my gear. But he said, "I'd rather just buy ammo... when I can find it."

The cash outlay for a decent amount of ammo is about 3 or 4 times the cost vs the same amount of components. I can afford to stock back some components, but I couldn't afford to stock back much ammo that's for sure.

[Scott Tschirhart]

There’s nothing wrong with simpler equipment either. A Lee Hand press and a set of dies is inexpensive and creates ammo that is every bit as good as what can be produced on a Dillon.

This kit fits in an ammo can and allows one to reload anywhere.

I started loading.30 Carbine ammo at the kitchen table with a Lee Loader and a plastic mallet. Very simple but it worked.

[AmBraCol]

Buying a new Dillon setup just to load a thousand rounds of 9mm per year doesn't make sense. But that's not the only scenario. I started back in the 20th century loading 32 gauge full brass shot shells and 22 lr. Equipment as a knife with a sharp point (to flip out the Berdan primers), a dowel (to seat the wadding), a pair of slip joint pliers (to loosen the Berdan primer compound for use in the 22 LR - then to seat the 3T shot in the mouth of the case). And we used the factory powder measure that came in the tube of Tupan powder. And a 38 spl case for measuring the FFFg powder when we used that instead of the "white powder". It's hard to get more simple than that - and it worked fine for two calibers.

Later on I got my hands on a couple Lee Loaders, 38 special and 44-40. All this allowed me to turn out usable ammo at far lower cost than we could obtain from the factory, and without the troublesome gov't regulations limiting number of rounds sold.

Today? I can load 35 Whelen far cheaper than factory fodder, even with current primer/bullet/powder costs. 45 Colt, 45 ACP and 44 Special all loaded much cheaper than factory ammo - and I've seen 38 Spl on the shelves in the US selling for the same or almost as 45 Colt! So add that one to the mix. All this done on a loading setup my bride bought for me almost 30 years ago. It doesn't get used as much as I'd like, but it sure feels good to be able to keep shooting although ammo prices have sky rocketed, and taking game with hand loaded ammo is more satisfying than using factory fodder, in my not so humble opinion.

Even today you can get set up to load for calibers that are extremely expensive for factory fodder at a rate that only a few boxes will pay for the setup. In the long run it won't save you money, but if you shoot a lot it will allow you to shoot more on the same budget in the long run.

[ywaltzucanrknrl]

I've been helping a high schooler get started in reloading and he has been pretty shocked by prices, mainly component prices. He has the right mindset and is into the science part of it, plus just enjoys shooting and reloading as a hobby.

But on the other side, he equates his purchases to what he earns from his farm and woodcutting jobs and realizes his pay doesn't go far enough.

[veeman]

I've never even tried to figger what reloading costs or if it saves money. I do it because I enjoy doing it, it's my hobby. That and the shooting. I probably have over 50 different boxes of test loads in over a dozen calibers in my cabinet, with matching targets made up for each load. No doubt I spend more time fiddling in the reloading room than on the range.

[LeverGunner]

I can shoot more as a result of reloading, but if I were going to shoot a box of cartridges that cost $20, I don't normally shoot enough reloads to equal that amount.

I sometimes shoot less because I reload. If I don't have time to cast or load and I don't have cartridges, I simply don't shoot.

[Steve in MO]

There’s nothing wrong with simpler equipment either. A Lee Hand press and a set of dies is inexpensive and creates ammo that is every bit as good as what can be produced on a Dillon.

This kit fits in an ammo can and allows one to reload anywhere.

When I got transferred from Ft. Benning to Ft. Lewis I took my Lee Hand Press and used it until my wife showed up with our household goods. I still use it to resize and deprime brass while watching TV or a movie.

[4t5]

It gives me something to do on rainy days.

[Scott Tschirhart]

It gives me something to do on rainy days.

Down here in Texas we pray for rainy days!

[6pt-sika]

Hmmmm I cannot buy 10 gauge 2 7/8” from RST at present , no one I know of sells 8 gauge that’s usable in sporting guns . 6.5x64 MS is hard to come by except for the cheap euro stuff . 26 Nosler is over inflated . 6.5 Sherman Short Mag , 6mm-06 and 6.5-06 are pretty much do it yourself only . Hence the many reasons I have no intention of stopping anytime soon .

[COSteve]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating stopping the hobby of handloading my own, I'm just wondering if the prices of equipment and components have gotten so high that less people will give it a try. I for one, would still handload my loads even if the price per rd was higher than commercial stock.

That's because I get to tune the loads to my liking and more importantly, I enjoy the heck out of handloading. All phases from case prep through storage to handloading gives me so much satisfaction that I'd be hard pressed to stop. Besides, I load 16 calibers, however, I load in those a total of 108 combinations of bullets and powders for specific applications.

Plinking loads use average bullets and lighter powder charges while target loads and long range loads use higher grade bullets and tuned charges for the range I'm planning. Then my self defense loads are prepared to mimic the commercial loads using the same bullets and performance so that some tricky lawyer can't say I purposely made a 'man killer' load to unfairly maim or kill his slimy perp he's defending.

[Rube Burrows]

Reloading has always been an expensive initial investment. Once you get the main stuff thought it becomes much cheaper. I shoot a ton of 45 Colt and at 50.00/box or more in stores and me making it for about 9 bucks a box....I can shoot as much as I like.

[LeverGunner]

I think the cost of getting into handloading does stop a lot of people. The cost of ammunition stops the same people from becoming truly involved in the firearms culture. Those folks pay $20 for a box of 9mm once in a while, shoot it up, and while they love it, they cannot justify the expense of getting in deeper.

Those same people normally pay a TV bill, have a new car/truck with a payment, have luxury things in their home that aren't needed. They do not put the same value on having a gun and the needed ammunition. They view it as a "hobby" or form of entertainment.

The old timers viewed guns a necessary part of life, and put having a gun and ammunition right below food and shelter. The mindset then was, patch your britches instead of buying another pair, and use the money to buy ammunition/components.

Instead of paying $100 a month for cable... a person can stock back a lot of components over a few years with that money.

Firearms are not the needed tools that they once were to most folks.

[jeepnik]

Folks say it's too expensive to get into reloading. But You can get a Lyman single stage press kit for one caliber for around $400. Using the savings of $41 per box form a previous post in ten boxes the kit has paid for itself. From then on you are saving money. Put that money aside and then buy other dies, presses, etc. and before you know it you will have a pretty nice setup.

[Griff]

Everything has gone up. I bought my first reloading supplies in 1974, I was gifted a RCBS Jr. press and used it until I bought my 550B in 1987. At that time I was loading for .38 Spl, .44 Mag, .45 Colt, .30-30, .45-70, .30-06 & 7mmRemMag. The rifle cartridges were still loaded on the RCBS, while the pistol cartridges got changed over to the Dillon... After a while I found a used RCBS RockChucker to load the rifle cartridges on, (I needed the extra depth to load the .40-90 so I didn't have to put the bullet up into the seating die before I loaded the case in the shell holder. When I started loading for the .223/5.56 I found a second Dillon so I didn't have to change out the primer feed to switch between large & small primers. I've recently started loading the 44-40 and while it only needs to feed one rifle for one game, (seldom loading more than a couple hundred rounds at a time), and it get loaded on the Dillon 550C (upgraded under warranty by Dillon).

As for cost... things seldom go down, except freight rates... and my budget has adjusted accordingly. Right now, I recently found 5K pistol primers (Win WLP) and it cost a bunch... in comparison to the last 5K I bought. I bought a couple hundred WLR primers from my local guy a few days ago @ $12.50/C. All they had, I put those in the last brick I opened, and am back up to 800 in inventory. I might not need more for a couple of years or so. My shooting is pretty much limited to cowboy action and Wild Bunch, The .30-30 is generally used for hunting, and I still have several boxes of factory ammo I've had since the 1980s... the rest I load myself for competition in "long range" side matches in cowboy action. Five years ago, a friend brought me 1,000 lbs of wheel weights, cast in ingots, so my casting is taken care of for the near future. I have a couple hundred lbs of pure lead for casting round balls, but the ones I use most are .36 cal, so I generally buy those.

Powder I have always bought, (since started cowboy shooting in 1985 that is), in jugs. When I get down to about a half a jug, I start shopping for its replacement. The only part of casting I tend to look at as a chore is lubing/sizing. I have about 10 of the old 1 lb cardboard powder cans I've cut the top off of, and use them to store cast bullets in. Since I pretty much only cast for the .30-30, .32-40, .40-90SBN, 38 Special and 45 Colt & ACP, & .45-70, I just wait until I want to load some of that particular cartridge, and set to lubing/sizing. To keep up with the needs of my 160 & 200 grain .45s, I will generally buy 500 of those at a time. They're still pretty much available one of the local shop (the owner casts and sells them), are still rather inexpensive compared to ordering them and paying shipping. I've come to love the powder-coated 160s.

Tis a hobby. Have you priced a bass boat & fishing gear recently? I don't fish... although I love catching fish, sitting on the bank casting away and winding line for a day is a bigger waste of time than casting bullets! Buying a salmon steak or fresh trout from time to time at the store is more cost effective than buying a boat, gear and moving to where I could catch either or both!

Buying reloading gear, supplies to feed the cowboy action hobby is far more cost effective than buying factory ammo... If I were working an 8-5 job with weekends off, I could shoot a cowboy match 4, sometimes 5 weekends a month, both Sat & Sun... That's 240 rounds of pistol ammo a weekend, plus 50+/- rounds of shotgun. Buying reloading gear and supplies for a year would be amortized within the first couple of years... Not to mention, one could customize their loads for their shooting style and what they need it to do. After that, it's nothing but saving money!

Ammo costs.jpg

Now that's calculated on a load using 6.5 grains of TiteGroup for 933 FPS, but, I really want my loads to be just below 650 FPS, which would reduce the charge to 4 grains. Ergo, after 5K rounds, I'd still have enough powder to load an additional 10,500 rounds. The total cost savings for the 1st 5,000 round I load would be $3,548.08 vs. buying 45 Colt cowboy ammo @$64.99/50. So... let's see, 52 weekends a year, times 2, times 120 rounds of 45 Colt... works out to 12,480 rounds... So, roughly after loading for ½ a year, I'd have paid for my reloading equipment and the supplies to reload that initial 1,000 rounds.

Yeah, yeah, the naysayers will sprout off about how you can't count on reusing every piece of brass... I know that I can get far more than 5 reloadings from each piece of 45 Colt I have.

By the way, I used Starline's, Natchez', & Missouri Bullet's websites for my cost info. Also, in my own case, travel costs to & from matches can sometimes equal the cost of the ammo consumed.

[LeverGunner]

You can get everything to load 1 caliber for around $150 if you buy used gear... man that's just 3 boxes of ammo!

[COSteve]

I'm just glad that I got my equipment and components when I did. I've got everything I need to load 7 pistol and 9 rifle calibers with a relaxing cadence which I like about handloading. In fact, the last new caliber I added was back in 2014; a .300 Savage. As I've said before, I did upgrade to a 750 because in 2020 our club rep went to Shot Show where Dillon was giving a discount to dealers.

That meant that the 750 I had my eye on was a steal that I couldn't pass up so I bought it and sold my 18 year old 650 for $113 more than I paid for it which lowered the effective price of my 750 significantly. Actually, if you have a 650, all you need to upgrade to a 750 setup is the basic press and spare parts kit. However, I always also get a 2nd primer assy so I can switch between primer sizes easily. With the 750, I can change sizes in about 40 seconds with no tools. Everything else on the 650 is used on the 750 too.

As to components, I noticed back in 2018, early 2019 many suppliers were having sales as they'd stocked up before the 2016 election and were sitting on excess inventory that they were having trouble moving so I bought a lot of components. I mean I stacked them deeeeeeep as the sales were just too good to pass up so I went really heavy. So heavy, that I'll likely have most of the components left when I give up shooting and pass the torch on to my son.

Fact is, the only components I bought during the last almost 5 years were a box of Federal SR primers I found at a small gunshop in North Dakota in 2023 he had marked at $29.95. At that price I couldn't put them back. Even though Federal SR primers are a bit touchy in a Dillon as they're soft, I've used them before and all one needs to due is load with a bit of extra care and they work fine. I plan on using them in my .357 mag levergun or my .40 s&w carbine loads but as I said, it will be a few years before I need to load up anything.

I also found an 8lb keg of Shooters World Precision powder last year that a local GS had marked down to $197 ($24.63/lb) as he was calling it quits and closing. SW Precision is their Varget clone that meters better in my powder measures than Varget and while I've only used it sparingly on just some test loads, it worked really well in my 'Apple Shooter' as a precision powder like Varget.

I didn't need either one of them but at those prices I couldn't leave them on the shelf so they came home with me. My wife just laughed and agreed that it was better to be lucky than smart or in my case just good to be lucky.

[KeithNyst]

Well, I guess I'm glad I took up reloading instead of golf, lol.

[LeverGunner]

I have a buddy that golfed for a while. He said it was surprisingly expensive.

[Tactical Lever]

Shooting on a casual basis has gotten too expensive to NOT consider reloading!

Hard to believe that supplies still haven't come back yet. And thanks to money printing we're seeing a devaluation in buying power and inflation like never before.

35% is a big increase in equipment costs, but considering cost of everything else, it's not that high I suppose I'd end up paying new prices if I had no choice, but that stuff will also last a couple lifetimes too.

My equipment isn't as fancy, and I don't have a progressive. Just simple ol Rockchucker and a Lee Hand Press. Everything has gotten expensive enough that I even bought a set of 9mm dies. Some of the bigger boomers cost over $100/20, and I can reload it with premium bullets for half of that, so it's a substantial cost savings.

I'm not happy about component price, but I look for deals and guys unloading excess here and there. And the lower pressure rounds have zero need for big expensive jacketed, so I'm going cast on several cartridges.

[coyote nose]

Lyman 310 tong tools. Usually handles and dies used at gun shows for 50 bucks or so. Slow, but if you are after a progressive press for a wonder nine then usually the cost of tooling isnt an issue, as with volume reloading you still come out ahead. But for casual levergun plinking the 310 tools are okay. I use them for nostalgic reasons in my 33 WCF, 30-30, 44-40.

[Grizz]

This reminds me that when rim fire ammo is "cheap" relative to the cost of other ammo, relative to the cost of coffee and donuts, relative to the cost to travel each mile, and to the costs of components, this is a good time to dollar-cost-average into whichever rim fire i feed. how many rounds would this donut buy, this extra hamburger, this glitzy supplement?

i buy ammo for guns i don't have. when i am in a place where rim fire is available, i buy some. a small amount. a brick or less depending on the price of coffee at the corner caffeine vendor. i still do this. a 5-gallon bucket with a lid makes a good repository. there is no quota system. yet.

then there is that gasoline thing again . . . :)

grizz

[Grizz]

This reminds me that when rim fire ammo is "cheap" relative to the cost of other ammo, relative to the cost of coffee and donuts, relative to the cost to travel each mile, and to the costs of components, this is a good time to dollar-cost-average into whichever rim fire i feed. how many rounds would this donut buy, this extra hamburger, this glitzy supplement?

i buy ammo for guns i don't have. when i am in a place where rim fire is available, i buy some. a small amount. a brick or less depending on the price of coffee at the corner caffeine vendor. i still do this. a 5-gallon bucket with a lid makes a good repository. there is no quota system. yet.

then there is that gasoline thing again . . .

grizz

https://www.luckygunner.com/22-wmr-45-g ... ds#geltest ...etc.
got to thinking more about this so visited lucky gunner's site. low price for 22LR reaches 6c per round and ranges up from there. low price for 22 WMR is at 30c per round, 5X the cost of LR.

the kicker on that is the gel tests. 22LR averaged just over 10 inches, while the mag ammo averaged 12".
I know, averages and all that, but i can fire 5 rounds for the cost of one round of WMR, roughly speaking.

the other interesting feature of 22 mag is that it has more energy at 100 yards than a 22's muzzle velocity. the wmr makes more sense for longer ranges. ALTHOUGH I remember videos of someone shooting beef roasts at 400 yards with 22LR and getting complete pass throughs. Deadly little boogers, eh?

OK, i'm over it,
grizz

.

Dry-Pass_trolling a.png

[PanamaJack85]

I just purchased a 45-70 and want to start my reloading journey. I've seen kits online in the $400 - $600 range (chiefly from RCBS). Is that about the average cost of entry or should I piecemeal it with used gear from Lyman, etc? I only plan to reload 45-70, 30-30 and maybe 6.5 Grendel and am looking at single stage presses as they seem to be more beginner friendly

[Scott Tschirhart]

I’m not sure where I fall on the spectrum. But I fire a bit over100 rounds of .38 Special this morning and that’s not terribly uncommon. I fired much lower amount of.44 Special and a handful of.327 Federal.

I load at least a couple of hundred rounds of something weekly.

I have to load just to keep up.

[LeverGunner]

I just purchased a 45-70 and want to start my reloading journey. I've seen kits online in the $400 - $600 range (chiefly from RCBS). Is that about the average cost of entry or should I piecemeal it with used gear from Lyman, etc? I only plan to reload 45-70, 30-30 and maybe 6.5 Grendel and am looking at single stage presses as they seem to be more beginner friendly

Howdy and welcome.

Any kit will do, but I'll warn you, Lee stuff is hit or miss - some of it is great, some of it is frustrating to work with. I use an old style Challenger reloading press, the perfect powder measure, their powder scoops. I love the Lee Hand press. Just be warned.

I would start with this kit https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ ... oading-kit if I was going to go with a kit. Why? cause I like the press angle.

I digress, I suggest piecing together an outfit.

I currently use:
Lyman 49th Handbook, plus Loadbooks.com manuals for each caliber I load
Lee Challenger press (old style)
RCBS 505 beam scale
Lee Perfect Powder measure (old style that I tuned up)
RCBS dies for most calibers (I use others too)
Lyman Universal Trimmer
Lyman Ram Prime
Shell holder of any brand (prefer RCBS)
RCBS made in china dial caliper
homemade loading block

Piecing together the needed things, you can get everything you need for about $150 if you buy what you can second-hand.

Here is a post I made on Marlinowners, in response to a person that was asking about reloading 30-30. I revised it some, adding where needed, and removing where I found the need.

One of the things about reloading is it can be very simple or very complicated. I recommend you start simple. The basic things needed are:

•Manual. I recommend Lyman's manual. It explains in some detail the processes of reloading. It also gives you a list of powders and the weight of those powders, bullets, and other information for your cartridge of choice. Basically a recipe book. The reason I recommend Lyman vs other brands, is the instruction part is very clear and the data section is easy to use and understand.

•Press. A single stage press is preferred because they are easier to set up, and because each operation is done individually, you get a better understanding of what is happening. Another benefit is this type of press is the most inexpensive normally.

You could also start with a Lee turret press, but I haven't personally used one and can't say anything about them.

•Dies for your caliber. Each die set will consist of 2 or 3 dies, sometimes 4 if there is a specialty die.

Normally, bottlenecked cartridges like 30-30 will have 2 dies. The first die does several things. Primarily, it resizes the outside of the case to the minimum SAAMI specs.

Inside the die is a rod that performs 2 operations. The first operation is to poke out the old primer, called de-capping. The second operation is that as the case is withdrawn from the die, there is a neck sizing "button" as it's called. This sizes the neck of the case internally so that each case holds the bullet the same amount, regardless of the thickness of the case itself. Because case thickness can vary somewhat, the inside of the neck, which is where the bullet is held, needs to be sized so that it is consistent.

The second die performs 2 operations. First, it seats the bullet to the correct depth. You choose this depth by a screw adjustment at the top of the die. Second, it crimps, if the die is set to do so. Not all die brands make dies to crimp, but most do. You can do these steps together some of the time depending on the bullets used. You can separate them as well if you need to.

For a case like 45-70, there will be 3 dies. All straight wall cartridges such as 38 special use this type.

The first die is the sizing die that squeezes the outside of the case to return it to factory dimensions. This die also decaps.

The second die is the belling die. It expands the inside of the case to a consistent diameter, it also puts a tiny flare at the top of the case, so that bullets can start past the case mouth without catching. There are two types of this expander. The standard, with flare. And the Lyman M type, or stepped expander. NOE makes them, and newer RCBS dies come with them. This is the better type, though the other works.

The third die seats and crimps the bullet.

•Case lubricant. Bottlenecked cases like 30-30, and straight walled tapered cases like 45-70 must be lubricated so they do not jam into the die. This is called a stuck case. Hornady One Shot case lube is easy and fast. Imperial Sizing Wax is easy, somewhat slow, cheap, and works very well. You remove the case lube with a rag and water or solvent. I use a paper towel and water most of the time.

•Shell holder. This is the interface between your press's ram, and the cartridge case. It holds the case via a slot and allows the case to be withdrawn from the dies. Each one is specific to a cartridge, with different cartridges sharing the same dimensions also sharing the same shell holders. Examples would be 30-30 and 32 Winchester Special both use the same shell holder.

•A way to prime. Some presses come with a priming system made onto them, consisting of an arm where the primer goes.

Many people, myself included, use a "ram prime" unit. This is a special die that goes in your press and allows you to install new primers in cartridge cases.

Another method is a stand alone priming tool. It is a dedicated bench mounted machine that takes the place of the press and ram prime.

There is also a hand held priming tool. I used a Lee version for years. It hurts my hands after a while so I moved to ram priming.

•Powder charging. There are 3 ways.

The first way, and the slowest, is to use a scale, measuring the appropriate amount of powder for the cartridge. You'll hear about grain weight measurements. There are 7000 grains in a pound.

The second way is to use a powder measure. It's a machine that drops powder by volume, which you specify by setting it with a scale. This is the best way for speed, and is accurate, safe, and the most popular.

The third way is a dipper. Basically, a scoop that gives you a volumetric amount of powder. This can work, and does very well, if you happen to have a scoop that is regulated for the amount of powder you need. I use this method occasionally just to change things up. You can buy Lee's powder scoops or make your own. If you make your own, you need a scale to verify/set them. If you buy them, Lee's charge is acceptable to tell you what each scoop will drop.

Along with the first and third method you will need a powder funnel.

•Loading block. You need a loading block to hold cartridge cases that have been charged with powder. A board with holes drilled in it will suffice.

•Case trimming. You have to trim bottlenecked cartridge brass because it lengthens whenever it's fired or worked in the die. It is easiest to trim it every time it's fired. Lee's trimming system is inexpenxive, and uses a pilot that is preset for length. You don't have to measure the case, just trim to that, and set your dies accordingly.

Another method is a trimming machine such as Lymans universal trimmer. This you have to measure and adjust for the length you want.

After trimming you will need to inside chamfer and outside deburr the cases. A chamfer/deburr tool is needed. It can be a simple handheld tool that costs $15 or a bench mounded machine that costs $100.

Trimming is important for 2 reasons. The first is safety. If the case grows too long, it can jam into the rifling and keep the crimp from opening, thus causing pressure to spike. It can also make bolt closing more difficult.

The second is that to get a consistent crimp between cartridges, you need a consistent length between all the cases.

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Those are the basic things that are needed.

The next most important tool is a dial or digital caliper. A mic isn't really useful for basic reloading. Calipers allow you to see how far your brass is moving, and to set the seating depth of bullets.

With 30-30, you buy bullets specifically for the cartridge, and you crimp in the crimp groove (cast bullets) or cannelure (jacketed bullets), so there is no need to measure. You don't "have" to measure anything to make reliable, safe, quality 30-30 ammunition, but measuring things makes you feel better most of the time.

With 45-70, you often use bullets made for it with a crimp groove/cannelure, so you won't have to measure them either.

You don't need a case tumbler. it cleans your cases and makes them pretty. You can remove the dirt and grime sufficiently with a damp cloth to be able to inspect the case for defects and reload it. You can reload forever without one, or you can get one later if you decide to stick with reloading.

The other things you need are bullets, powder, and primers.

You need large rifle primers for 30-30 and 45-70. Large magnum primers will suffice if you cannot find regular large primers. Get the first large rifle primers you come across as this is the scarcest item.

Powders will consist of H335, W748, IMR3031, and others. The 30-30 will work sufficiently with a wide variety of powders, but those I listed are sort of the "made for 30-30" powders. Powders for 45-70 will include IMR3031, IMR4198, and many others. A manual will list a dozen powders for each bullet, and the recommended amount of powder to use. You'll see a range of powders that overlap between cartridges.

Loadbooks.com offers a small manual with different data for each cartridge. It's not a reloading manual and teaches you nothing about reloading. But it offers you a great resource for powder and bullet data for a specific cartridge.

[PanamaJack85]

This is great info and I appreciate the level of detail provided. I'd like to piece it together but I am tempted to give myself a head start with the kit you recommended. Thank you!

[Scott Tschirhart]

If you know an old hand loader who can show you the way you can avoid a lot of mistakes. I loaded some ammo back in the 1980s that is nowhere near as good as the ammunition I make today.

[6pt-sika]

I just purchased a 45-70 and want to start my reloading journey. I've seen kits online in the $400 - $600 range (chiefly from RCBS). Is that about the average cost of entry or should I piecemeal it with used gear from Lyman, etc? I only plan to reload 45-70, 30-30 and maybe 6.5 Grendel and am looking at single stage presses as they seem to be more beginner friendly

You can make a sizeable savings buying good used stuff . You can get by with a press , a scale and a hand primer . Life goes better and quicker if you have a decent powder measure . A lot of the tid bits they include in the kits I don’t use and never did . I’d try to find a decent used RCBS or Lyman press , a scale from the same folks and powder measure from the same . I would however opt for a new RCBS hand primer specifically the one that doesn’t require shell holders . I’d also get the RCBS primer pocket cleaner and chamfer tool , some Imperial sizing die wax and the Imperial inside neck mica dip thing . Now of course you need a different set of dies for each cartridge as well . As to single stage metallic loaders that’s pretty much all I’ve ever had , always thought a Dillon would be nice but never bought one . I do have an RCBS 4x4 I bought used and have never used . But the bottom line even when I shot a lot of rifle ammo a progressive wasn’t gonna save me time but rather most likely a hinderance . Typically I’d load perhaps thirty different loads three of each , so I was constantly changing seating depths and powder charges . Once loads were decided on I still would only load a dozen or so at a time . Granted for pistol cartridges I was cheap sort of and bought seperate Lee Loadmaster machines for the ones I loaded most or thought I’d load most 45 ACP and 10mm . But it’s all relative what works for me may not for others . But darn near fifty years of this stuff has me pretty set in my ways .

[LeverGunner]

This is great info and I appreciate the level of detail provided. I'd like to piece it together but I am tempted to give myself a head start with the kit you recommended. Thank you!

You're welcome. I remember what it was like when I was learning. I had a lot of folks tell me "go read a manual or read the stickies" as the answer to my questions. And while I did, manuals didn't offer me the answers to some questions.

Here is a PDF of the Lyman 48th edition.

https://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manual ... %20ocr.pdf

[PanamaJack85]

If you know an old hand loader who can show you the way you can avoid a lot of mistakes. I loaded some ammo back in the 1980s that is nowhere near as good as the ammunition I make today.

I wish I knew someone but looks like this will be a party of one. I'm pretty detail oriented so I think I'll be ok... At least ok enough to not blow myself up

[Griff]

While you may find the Lyman 48th Handloading Handbook used, the 51st Edition is out. If you want a wider selection of cast bullets, their Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition has more than the handbooks that list both jacketed and cast bullets. If you have a favorite jacketed bullet manufacturer that you like, I'd pick up the latest version of their load data manual also. Hodgdon's reloading data website is also chock full of reference data.

[LeverGunner]

Where are you located Panamajack? You might find a mentor. There is nothing wrong with learning on your own.

You won't blow yourself up unless you make one of a several egregious errors.

Those are:
• Double charging the case with powder. If you use the 2 loading block system, where you move cases from one block to another, it's possible to get confused/lose focus and put 2 throws of powder from a powder dispenser in a case, then set it in the "charged" block.

I help avoid this by using only 1 loading block. I use tupperware tubs for the operations up to powder charging. When the case is ready to be given its powder charge, I move it from a tub to the powder measure, drop the powder charge, and then place it in a loading block. I have the tub and the loading block on different sides of the powder measure.

• Using the wrong powder. Some powders are similarly named. So if you just glance at the load data before you grab your powder off the shelf, and you grab the wrong one, this can happen. The other way it can happen is if you have 2 or more powder containers on the workbench at the same time. It's recommended to not have any powder on your bench/reloading area except for the can you're using to avoid accidentally using the wrong type.

• Starting at the middle or max of the loading data. The powder charge tables normally have a starting (minimum) charge weight and a maximum. If the powder charge range is 30.0 grains of powder to 35.0 grains of powder, you start at the minimum, loading 5 cartridges, shooting them for function and groups, and checking for high pressure signs. Then you work towards the top if desired, increasing the powder charge (in my example) 1 grain at a time, in at least 5 steps, each time shooting 5 cartridges at a minimum, checking for function, accuracy, and for any signs of high pressure.

I have had 1 instance where I used the recommended starting charge of powder where the resulting cartridges were higher pressure than expected, and in fact were higher than factory equivalent for recoil and ejection.

[PanamaJack85]

I'm east of Atlanta, way too close to last week's chemical plant fire. I was kidding about blown myself up. I'm diligent when it comes to safety but your insight is always appreciated

[AmBraCol]

I just purchased a 45-70 and want to start my reloading journey. I've seen kits online in the $400 - $600 range (chiefly from RCBS). Is that about the average cost of entry or should I piecemeal it with used gear from Lyman, etc? I only plan to reload 45-70, 30-30 and maybe 6.5 Grendel and am looking at single stage presses as they seem to be more beginner friendly

Welcome to the forum! Shucks, I started with an old Lee Loader "whack 'em" kit. If you've never seen or heard of one it's a single die into which you drive the empty cartridge case, set it on a piece of the kit that allows you to drive the old primer out by a tap on the decapping rod, then drive the cartridge out of the sizer, seat a primer with another tap (easy does it) and then dump in the powder, use the die and seating apparatus to seat the bullet and then crimp if needed. That more or less roughly describes the procedure. For cartridges shot in one firearm and then reloaded for use in the same, it was quite serviceable and gave excellent results with accurate ammo. Its major weakness other than being slow and noisy to use is it does NOT full length size the cartridge, even the straight wall ones.

Keep your eyes open and you'd be amazed at the deals that pop up. There was a first rate press sold here on the forum recently for not much money at all. For the calibers you mention you would be well served with a single stage press. Progressives or turrets have their allure, but a good single stage is hard to beat. Personally I'd stay away from Lee's powder scale and hold out for an RCBS or a Lyman. I've used all three with good results but just don't care for the Lee, plus it's too light to use for weighing bullets, especially those intended for the 45-70.