one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

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mickbr
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one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by mickbr »

okay you have a big bear coming in fast, lets say a grizzly minimum. I wont go into details whether you were hunting or suprized or how this actually occurred. :D But lets say you have a 44 mag or 45 colt lever gun at hand for whatever reason and you will get just 1 shot away. What load and bullet is that shot?
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Dave Nowlin »

22 grains of H-110 over a 325 grain Hard cast LBT bullet. I know from experience it will penetrate 12 inches of seasoned oak. This is a stout load below .44 mag pressure.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Grizz »

mickbr wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:00 am okay you have a big bear coming in fast, lets say a grizzly minimum. I wont go into details whether you were hunting or suprized or how this actually occurred. :D But lets say you have a 44 mag or 45 colt lever gun at hand for whatever reason and you will get just 1 shot away. What load and bullet is that shot?
1895G with 525Gr BT PileDriver at 1475 fps for that exact scenario. However, lots of people that get jumped by bears don't have time to get the barrel pointed in the right direction. They can outrun a quarter horse.

My 44 mag load is a 405Gr HC from BTB that exits the Redhawk around 950 fps, and it penetrates like the 45/70 at close range. I know of several grizz charges that were stopped with 44mags, including by a nephew in Sitka. I'm guessing the standard 240Gr JSP, BUT don't know for sure.

good question,
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by AJMD429 »

.
Dunno but the BULLET would definitely be a hard-cast lead with the heaviest weight I could toss out at around 1,000 fps. That velocity seems to be the magic one for deep penetration with hard-cast lead. Probably 300 grains or more.
Ideally a load I could use in Redhawk OR Marlin 1894.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by wvfarrier »

300 grain XTP with a "paco" load of H110. This load is FEARSOME and gives about 5ft of straight line penetration.

Tested it on a 1# bologna pack covered with 1/4" thick leather backed by 1/2" particle board and then penetrsted 6-1 gallon water jugs and then exited into my back wall where it became stuck.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Bronco »

My max load for 44 mag is a 300 grgc hard cast over 21grs of 2400. Velocity is 1350fps 71/2" Redhawk or 1750fps Marlin 24" . Also bring along someone slower than me :lol:
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Sixgun »

There’s not too many people who could hold their cool on a moving target intent on eating you so I would opt for a load with the most recoil and then I’d shoot straight down in the ground hoping the recoil would push me high enough to grab a branch.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Grizz »

My 45.Here's the shot ->
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here is a close up with the plank airborne from they hydraulic down force
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Screenshot (5255).png
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and this is the recovered bullet. started out as a truncated cone.
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Screenshot (5256).png
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by JFE »

The OP asked about a 44 vs 45 LC. The 45/70 is no doubt a much bigger hammer.

In rifles of the same strength, you can put the greater capacity of the 45LC case to good use. It has about 20% more capacity and the same weight pills are much shorter.

A 45LC loaded to the same pressure is probably good for 200 fps more than a 44 mag. In a strong rifle it’s close to lower end 45/70 levels.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Grizz »

JFE wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:21 pm The OP asked about a 44 vs 45 LC. The 45/70 is no doubt a much bigger hammer.

In rifles of the same strength, you can put the greater capacity of the 45LC case to good use. It has about 20% more capacity and the same weight pills are much shorter.

A 45LC loaded to the same pressure is probably good for 200 fps more than a 44 mag. In a strong rifle it’s close to lower end 45/70 levels.
thanks for the info. i responded to the topic, the thing on top of the post in large print.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by LeverGunner »

The only heavy load I've worked up in 44 Magnum is Ranch Dog CTL432-265-RF over 22 grains W296. I've not had the chance to work with a heavier bullet yet.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Grizz »

LeverGunner wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 5:00 pm The only heavy load I've worked up in 44 Magnum is Ranch Dog CTL432-265-RF over 22 grains W296. I've not had the chance to work with a heavier bullet yet.
I hunted in Alaska for years with a 10" SBH 44 with a 320 grain cast plain base truncated cone at unknown velocity. Made lots of venison. The only one I recovered was a straight on head shot where the bullet ploughed lengthwise along the spine. Put 'm right down.

When I got a 5-1/2" Redhawk I developed a 405 Gr BTB load for deer hunting, but my hunting days petered out with other stuff once the kids were bringing in the meat. That bullet was developed for the 444 and the long cylinder 44 mags. I know someone who penetrated 13 Jugs with his pistol. I never hunted with it, but I carried it on the islands in case brer bear wanted it.

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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by .45colt »

Six Gun wrote:'There’s not too many people who could hold their cool on a moving target intent on eating you so I would opt for a load with the most recoil and then I’d shoot straight down in the ground hoping the recoil would push me high enough to grab a branch."...... exactly....
On the Marlin Owners Forum maybe ten years ago one of the Guys in Alaska was out Scouting before hunting . He had a Marlin Guide Gun with I think heavy "pile driver" bullets in it. Up on a ridge with heavy brush on both sides He heard a noise on His left....about 50 yards away. He dropped His pack, 1..2...3.. raised the gun and fired. with the Bear dropping at His Feet. Very few people have a clue about How Big and nasty these Critters can Be.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Grizz »

.45colt wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:07 pm Six Gun wrote:'There’s not too many people who could hold their cool on a moving target intent on eating you so I would opt for a load with the most recoil and then I’d shoot straight down in the ground hoping the recoil would push me high enough to grab a branch."...... exactly....
On the Marlin Owners Forum maybe ten years ago one of the Guys in Alaska was out Scouting before hunting . He had a Marlin Guide Gun with I think heavy "pile driver" bullets in it. Up on a ridge with heavy brush on both sides He heard a noise on His left....about 50 yards away. He dropped His pack, 1..2...3.. raised the gun and fired. with the Bear dropping at His Feet. Very few people have a clue about How Big and nasty these Critters can Be.
or how FAST, or how QUIET. I was on the tail boat of a log tow down Chatham and the skipper up ahead called and said "let's go hunting, i'm tired of steak", so I dumped the skiff in and zoomed up to his tug and we ran up ahead of the slow moving log raft, and I found a decent beaching spot, with some likely looking areas. We beached the Lunde skiff and took a deep breath. DEER SMELL!! You know they're close when you can smell them. We took their trail up a ways and something caught my eye, i crawled thru a blueberry patch and spotted, first, what appeared to be about 5 gallons of red paint, then the eviscerated deer with its back broken over a log and the innards removed. I had a lightly loaded 12 Ga, and the skipper had a .24 something or other, and we knew brer bear was watching us, so we slowly backtracked and headed for the skiff. The meat in the freezer suddenly seemed perfect. That's when I bought the guide gun, and a double-action revolver after that scene.

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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Bearskinner »

For many years I carried a 454 with 300 grain Sierra Soft Points. They are extremely hard SP bullets, and the most accurate 45 caliber bullet. In a 45, 21.0 grains of 2400, with the Sierra 8830. That and a stouter version in 454 has taken over 200 head of game for me. That’s at revolver velocity, add a couple hundred FPS in a lever gun.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Grizz »

Bearskinner wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:16 pm For many years I carried a 454 with 300 grain Sierra Soft Points. They are extremely hard SP bullets, and the most accurate 45 caliber bullet. In a 45, 21.0 grains of 2400, with the Sierra 8830. That and a stouter version in 454 has taken over 200 head of game for me. That’s at revolver velocity, add a couple hundred FPS in a lever gun.
that's the functional equivalent of my 44 load. a fantastically effective and efficient tool.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Grizz »

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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Walt »

Do you remember that story from half a dozen years ago about a guy in Alaska who was out walking his dog in the morning when he heard a small noise in the bushes just behind him? It was a grizzly bear that charged at him from close by. The man always carried a .454 in a belt holster and he emptied it at the bear as he tripped and fell over backward. At least one of the rounds hit a vital spot and the bear fell dead only inches from the guy. Turns out the bear was old and had grass packed in his teeth which limited his ability to feed naturally. The bear weighed 800 lbs and was considered to be about 500 lbs underweight.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

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Walt wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 12:34 pm Do you remember that story from half a dozen years ago about a guy in Alaska who was out walking his dog in the morning when he heard a small noise in the bushes just behind him? It was a grizzly bear that charged at him from close by. The man always carried a .454 in a belt holster and he emptied it at the bear as he tripped and fell over backward. At least one of the rounds hit a vital spot and the bear fell dead only inches from the guy. Turns out the bear was old and had grass packed in his teeth which limited his ability to feed naturally. The bear weighed 800 lbs and was considered to be about 500 lbs underweight.
I don't recall that one, but I heard lots like it. It's a recurring theme in the wildernesses. It's one reason I switched to a DA pistol, I figured I would not know in advance which arm was getting chewed on and i wanted one last chance to kill it, with the other hand. :)
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Griff »

I doubt that I'll ever meet Ursus arctos horribilis in even the wildest parts of Texas, so I stick to what I feel is sufficient for Ursus americanus. I have 4:

1 - 375 Win, 220 JFN @ approx 2250fps from the 22" Marlin 375;

2 - 45 Colt, 250 JFN w/24 grains of H4227 for ~1775 fps from the 20" Rossi short rifle; and,

3 - 45-70, 350 grain JFN w/31 grains AA5744 for ~1675 fps from the 26" Browning 1886.

4 - .30-30, either a 150 GCFN or 150 JFN @ 2233 from my 26" Winchester 94 or 2010 from the 16" Trapper (if I'm still hunting).

For Mr Grizzly I'd hope to have my mdl 12 Riot Gun w/slugs
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Grizz »

Griff wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 2:25 pm I doubt that I'll ever meet Ursus arctos horribilis in even the wildest parts of Texas, so I stick to what I feel is sufficient for Ursus americanus. I have 4:

1 - 375 Win, 220 JFN @ approx 2250fps from the 22" Marlin 375;

2 - 45 Colt, 250 JFN w/24 grains of H4227 for ~1775 fps from the 20" Rossi short rifle; and,

3 - 45-70, 350 grain JFN w/31 grains AA5744 for ~1675 fps from the 26" Browning 1886.

4 - .30-30, either a 150 GCFN or 150 JFN @ 2233 from my 26" Winchester 94 or 2010 from the 16" Trapper (if I'm still hunting).

For Mr Grizzly I'd hope to have my mdl 12 Riot Gun w/slugs
Thats Good Stuff! I don't know that the brown bears are any tougher or harder to kill than bison or range bulls. Just guessing that bone structure and musculature are similar. I should think that anything you can stop a charging buffalo or bull with is good medicine for brer nasty too. I think one challenge with the bears is that they are in dense forest and can move silently faster than a horse. A lot of the Texas I drive through couldn't hide a bear for miles and miles. They look just like a pickup truck without the shimmer, LOL
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by GunnyMack »

A friend was stationed in Anchorage, well the AFB, Elmdorf? Anyhow he guided on the side for salmon as did a few other airmen. One of his guys was charged and a Beretta M9 was employed- full magazine brought into play hitting the bear with all of them there 9mms and it died very close to getting the guy. NOT my first choice !
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Bearskinner »

Bears are not harder to kill than large bison, or range bulls, but they have ATTITUDE. They kill for a Living, and get good at it. I do not like shooting bears when there looking at you…..sometimes you have NO choice, they usually go where there looking. If there already coming, and looking right at you, they will be much less likely deviated from their chosen purpose, of tearing thru you. My first bear was taken at about 7 feet. At the shot, he lunged, and as I stepped back, he landed on my tracks dead. The shot was 1/2” off center, between his eyes. Using a marlin 44 mag lever with silhouette bullets.
One of the defining moments, that has kept me hunting for a lifetime. That got me started as a kid in the 70’s.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

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GunnyMack wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:27 pm A friend was stationed in Anchorage, well the AFB, Elmdorf? Anyhow he guided on the side for salmon as did a few other airmen. One of his guys was charged and a Beretta M9 was employed- full magazine brought into play hitting the bear with all of them there 9mms and it died very close to getting the guy. NOT my first choice !
sombody got one with an American Rifle 5.56 caliber. I guess ya just use what ya got.

somebody with a 300 win mag (I believe) got jumped, barrel was nearly in the bear's mouth when it went off. the bear proceeded to rip the guy apart, then broke off. there was someone else there who walked until he found a cell signal and got the downed guy a helo lift to a hospital. he survived but was messed up. the shot killed the bear, but they have very slow heartbeats and can kill someone who killed them. they went back later to see if they could find the bear. there was a freshly eaten brownie, the surmise was that the attacker died of the wound, and his friend ate him.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Grizz »

Bearskinner wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:47 pm Bears are not harder to kill than large bison, or range bulls, but they have ATTITUDE. They kill for a Living, and get good at it. I do not like shooting bears when there looking at you…..sometimes you have NO choice, they usually go where there looking. If there already coming, and looking right at you, they will be much less likely deviated from their chosen purpose, of tearing thru you. My first bear was taken at about 7 feet. At the shot, he lunged, and as I stepped back, he landed on my tracks dead. The shot was 1/2” off center, between his eyes. Using a marlin 44 mag lever with silhouette bullets.
One of the defining moments, that has kept me hunting for a lifetime. That got me started as a kid in the 70’s.
I haven't shot one, but I saw one I wanted to shoot. It was the color of a red setter and standing up was the tallest one I've seen. He was being entertained by a much smaller all black female I guessed. he stood up and kept his eyes fixed on us while we drifted near the shore. I would have killed that one for the hide if I wasn't headed out to fish, and if it was in season, and if i had a tag. Oh well, at least I made him mad . . .
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

All of my .45 Colt chambered leverguns are on 1866 or 1873 actions.

However, I shot a 270SAA bullet over 8 gr of Unique clean through a big cow and recovered it from the dirt on the other side.

This was from a 4 3/4 inch barrel so it might have a bit more from my leverguns.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

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GunnyMack wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:27 pm A friend was stationed in Anchorage, well the AFB, Elmdorf? Anyhow he guided on the side for salmon as did a few other airmen. One of his guys was charged and a Beretta M9 was employed- full magazine brought into play hitting the bear with all of them there 9mms and it died very close to getting the guy. NOT my first choice !
True Dat !!! I think it mostly depends on the placement + the bullet construction. It's why I'm working with the 255gr hardcast for the 1911, a much easier gun to live with than the redhawk. yeah, i'm shrinking that much and losing my grip, if i ever had one :wink: , but i think that load will do whatever Jim and Scott's loads do. I "think".
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I have to shoot something that I can shoot well. My .45 Colt load is probably about the equivalent of my Skeeter load but with a bigger heavier bullet.

Both are very comfortable and accurate loads for me and I can hit what I want to or need to with these loads.

Bears can be really scary creatures. Heavy for caliber deep penetration is what I think you need.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by samsi »

I'd go with the most powerful load that I can shoot accurately. It's been a while but I sometimes play with something I call The Bear Drill, one shot on each of three paper plates on successively lower stands at 25, 15 and 3 yards, Par time is 3 seconds. I've pulled it off with both a Guide Gun (start from an empty chamber) and a Redhawk from a chest holster, though I don't always make a solid hit on the 25 under the time constraints. It's a good reality check. A half dozen runs per session is plenty as it gets to be fatiguing after the first couple times through when using serious loads.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by buckeyeshooter »

If I had to use a 44 magnum, 300 grain xtp with max charge of 2400. However, if there is even a chance of a griz in the area, I'm carrying a 50 Alaskan with 535 grain Woodleigh's at 1900 fps. I know they shoot through both shoulders and leave a golf ball sized exit. Question is, can I place the shot? Running at you is much harder than a broadside standing target.
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Re: one shot with a 44 or 45 lever, whats you load

Post by Ji in Hawaii »

300 grain Cast Performance, 21 grains H-110
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