Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

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Scott Tschirhart
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Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I’m pretty much settled on a short shotgun riding in my truck and another one under the bed.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Some good conversations about the use.

https://youtu.be/i12p_i4-qpM?si=M9dahujV_AcMj4eM

I like them short and at the distances you may need to use them, nothing works better.

https://youtu.be/fM_sqSTg2v8?si=XMjEqIC4_8iwFvU7
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by JimT »

When I was in Corrections we carried the 870 with a 20 inch barrel. Our issue load was #4 Buckshot.
I like a shotgun and have several.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by GunnyMack »

Oh if I had a nickle for every shotgun shell I've touched off...
Yes sir a 12ga is my go to for things that go bump in the night. In home use I prefer fine shot, #4 or even #2 lead as even 4buck will go through several walls.
The pistol is for when a shotgun runs dry and you need to check for a pulse.
The sound of a pump gun being operated is enough to get the attention and respect of anyone!
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by jeepnik »

Perhaps you all have wives that can easily handle a 12 with 3" buckshot loads. Mine can't do it comfortably. So we have a 20 ga Mossberg for the house.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Keith D »

Mine is an old Sears & Roebuck 12ga pump with 00 buck. Cut the original barrel down to 19+ inches. Original barrel length was 28", but was shooting off. Too cheap a gun to put money in to fix. Now it works great for home defense. Action is very slick. Now it's still useful with a different job.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I spent a lot of years hunting and carrying an 870 Remington in the patrol car. There are better shotguns but I am so used to an 870 that I can run it in my sleep.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by JimT »

jeepnik wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:47 pm Perhaps you all have wives that can easily handle a 12 with 3" buckshot loads. Mine can't do it comfortably. So we have a 20 ga Mossberg for the house.
We have 12's and 20's. My daughter likes the 20 and we keep a couple in different handy spots.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

My favorite old shotgun was a Rossi coach gun with hammers.

I gave my folks a Shockwave chambered in .410 and it’s a useful tool that they carry around in the quad.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by OldWin »

I'm not much of a shotgun guy. I'll use em if I have to, but if I can figure a way around it, I won't. Partridge is all I really use them for. I've never kept one for home defense or in my vehicles. I always opted for handguns and short carbines.
I do realize, however, I'm standing all alone on my side of the room. :D
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Scott, is that a "Shockwave" or the like? I've been toying with the idea of getting one, just waiting on the right deal as I am not in a hurry. How is it to shoot?
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by AJMD429 »

.
I have a Saiga-12 and it has been fast and flawless.
Easier to shoot vs a pump for folks like me who don't practice much.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Ysabel Kid wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:17 pm Scott, is that a "Shockwave" or the like? I've been toying with the idea of getting one, just waiting on the right deal as I am not in a hurry. How is it to shoot?
Mine is a Remington TAC14

I like it enough that it lives in my truck.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Lots of opinions on the PG shotguns. I would much rather have one if I needed one than the other way around, but the 20-gauge versions sound more shootable. I haven't even seen one at the range -- just at gun shows and of course on YouTube.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by 2ndovc »

Ysabel Kid wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:17 pm Scott, is that a "Shockwave" or the like? I've been toying with the idea of getting one, just waiting on the right deal as I am not in a hurry. How is it to shoot?
Mine rides in my pickup as well. Loaded with 00 or a rifled slug, it's pretty devastating at short shotgun ranges. I had to put the rubber gripper on mine. The hard plastic grip slides back through my hand during recoil, but that's mostly because my hands are pretty wrecked.
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I only have a couple of hunting shotguns, a pair of single shot .410s and a do it all (for me anyway) Winchester Model 12, 20 gage my dad gave me when I was about 12. No rabbit was safe after he gave that 20 gage. :D
I'll have to get a picture of the rest, but most of my shotguns are defensive types.
Benelli M4 ( "An Italian Classic")
Winchester '97 riot gun
Winchester Model 12 fake riot gun
Winchester SXP
Remington 870 Delaware Police trade
H&R 12 gage w/ 18 1/4" barrel that's traveled more miles than all of the others combined and then some.
I'm sure I'm forgetting 1 or 2.

jb 8)
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by marlinman93 »

I've never really been a shotgun aficionado, although I did do a lot of upland game bird hunting, and trap shooting in my younger years when I could climb up and down the breaks for chukar and quail. And did all my hunting and trap shooting with my trusty old Winchester semiauto 12 ga.
But I wanted a shotgun to keep around the house for self defense and went to my local Sportsman's Warehouse to see what was the latest greatest thing. I ended up coming home with a black shotgun based on the AR15 design that uses 5rd. or 10rd. magazines. I think higher capacity mags might be available, but they're too long to make them a viable option.
The shotgun uses 12 ga. 3" shells, and instructions say shorter 2.75" shells might not function well. I haven't tried shorter as I figure for defense I wanted reliability. It so far has been extremely reliable, and at the time I bought mine they were on sale for $299, so pretty inexpensive.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by jkbrea »

I have a Rem 870 because I used one for 30 years in L E. . I bought this mainly for fun..and it is. It's a RIA VR 80. I bought a 25 round drum for it. It is a blast to shoot. It does need hi velocity ammo to cycle properly but recoil on these AR type platforms is much less.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by wvfarrier »

While working on contract I carried a Mossberg 590A1 loaded with fleschette's. It was spooky effective
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by 44shooter »

My 870 Turkey Express does double duty in a bedroom corner. Its 21 inch barrel isn’t too cumbersome and it’s loaded with reduced recoil 00 buck. The capacity doesn’t bother me as I figure no one wants to wait around for me to go empty.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

44shooter wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2024 4:12 pm The capacity doesn’t bother me as I figure no one wants to wait around for me to go empty.
Exactly right!
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by buckeyeshooter »

serious use? Well bedside I have a double barrel Elibar of Spain sawed off at 20 inches, loaded with 00 buck and it's a 10 gauge not a 12. If more serious, I have a Remington Custom Shop SP-10 with a 20 inch screw in choke barrel with rifle sights and an extra vent rib 26 inch screw in choke barrel in a fitted case that holds the set. I have shot deer with slugs with it and it is like they were hit with a lightening bolt, straight down.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by gamekeeper »

I'm down to only one shotgun at the moment, a USSR made 16 gauge hammer gun together with a .410 adapter it covers everything I require from a shotgun, I just wish I had the same choice of ammunition as you have in the States.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I love a hammer gun.
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Post by JBowen »

I have keep my 12-gauge Russian made Baikal coach gun by my bed for years. I had been searching for a Winchester 1300 Defender for that role since I have Model 1200 and 1300's for hunting and have had since the mid '70s. I found one this past summer and put it in that role.
I haven't had to use it on anything yet but I am confident and familiar with the design and controls.

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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by 6pt-sika »

Look it ain’t no great secret about all I shoot shotgun wise are SxS both hammer and hammerless. However for what you want I’d be thinking Belgian made Browning A-5 and cut it down to suit my needs . Or a well used Remington 870 and again cut to suit . In years past I’d have said Winchester model 12 but I think now an 870 would be a bit more reliable .
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by 6pt-sika »

In my bedroom I have a circa 1890 Parker Grade 1 top lever 10 gauge hammer gun with the 26” barrels on loaded with a slug in the right and buck in the left . Not ideal but I have so I’ll use it :lol: FWIW this gun is a factory original two barrel set 26” and 30” .
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

6pt, I hope any perp to have the honor of being shot with that old Parker 10 can fully appreciate your choice of defensive tool. 8)
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by 6pt-sika »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:46 am 6pt, I hope any perp to have the honor of being shot with that old Parker 10 can fully appreciate your choice of defensive tool. 8)
Well if the perp gives me a minute or two I can go downstairs open a safe and pull out a Benelli Montefeltro 12 gauge 24” and load it with buckshot if he’d prefer more modern ! That gun was made in the mid 1980’s . That’s pretty sad my newest shotgun is about forty years old LOL’s !
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by barbarossa »

I like my Greener GP
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Barbarossa, you have a classic right there.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by samsi »

I like the old school Whippet guns, so I'm keeping an eye out for a Remington 11 that needs some love. Saw one in a shop once that was bobbed and had a Cutts on it. Should have grabbed it but I didn't.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I found some shotgun track locks that have been used in police cars.

That got me to thinking about mounting one of these behind the console on my pickup…..hmmm?
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

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samsi wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:24 pm I like the old school Whippet guns, so I'm keeping an eye out for a Remington 11 that needs some love. Saw one in a shop once that was bobbed and had a Cutts on it. Should have grabbed it but I didn't.
At one point I had six Model 11’s , pair of 12’s a 16 and three 20’s . Now I’m down to a 12 gauge with a 30” vent rib barrel and an additional 32” solid rib barrel also a 20 gauge with is memory serves a 28” plain barrel . All three are full choked .
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Paladin »

Shotguns were issued to me from 1977 until 2022 when I retired from my last contract. Remington 870s were in the office locker and we could take one without asking from the beginning of my tenure with the State Police and are almost indestructible. I shoot shotguns well for work-type events and took top shooter at Gunsite with an 870 in a 3-gun class. I have carried the 870 Witness Protection 12 GA (a 12-inch barreled 870 in photo) in the state police on the SWAT Team and Bomb Squad for 15 years. I switched to the Mossberg Shockwave (photo is before I put a NIGHT STICK LASER AND LIGHT Slide on it) after leaving the GOV service as I don't need permission from ATF to cross state lines. The Shockwave has been modified with a Balloon Choke and Vents from Van Comp and travels with me almost everywhere in the Lower 48 and Alaska. The 1897 Winchester (takedown) was my motorcycle gun for years and fit in the saddlebags of my bike. I have used Rem 1100s, Benellis, and currently a Berreta 1301, all for people and dangerous game work. With the new optics calibrated for slugs first shot hits on 3/4 human-size steel targets at 300 yards are normal. For Combat, the Rem 870, Mossberg pumps, Benelli, 14-inch Custom Saiga 12 (photo below), or Berretta are the best I have used. The Berretta 1301 is the lightest, fastest, and least rec oiling of all. We were not allowed to use anything smaller than 00 Buckshot on people and slugs (Alaska recommends Brenneke KO slug for Brown Bears). With Federal Flight Control wads 8 round 00 Buck will still hold 3-4 groups out 25-30 yards and keep all the pellets on a human-size target out to 50 yards with some guns. Shotguns are very effective combat weapons out to 300 yards with practice. The ability to use different types of ammo from blanks, and rubber buckshot/slugs, to grenades (for GOV) makes them DEADLY. Shockwave with the NIGHT STICK forearm.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by RIHMFIRE »

When I have to take care of unruly clay targets....i use these
20160813_221639.jpg
12 and 12 Wingmasters
and a Beretta 686 onyx sporting
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by gamekeeper »

Paladin, thanks for an extremely interesting post, sure makes my 16 gauge hammer gun look like it belongs on the Ark.... :lol: over the years I have owned a few pump actions but never had a semi auto. Being a civilian my needs have been mainly for hunting but I have always been very interested in military and police use of shotguns.
Years ago the British police were issued the Greener single shot riot gun in a weird 14 gauge that was unavailable to the public, I started hunting back in 1960 with my brother and his friend who had a converted to 12 gauge Greener Riot Gun.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by gamekeeper »

barbarossa wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 5:27 pm I like my Greener GP
The best single shot ever made, I have been to the factory and seen them being made, great choice... :D
I always thought that growing old would take a lot longer.......
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

There was a time when the Greener riot guns in 12/14 gauge were dirt cheap. Was I smart enough to buy a couple and stash them? Noooooooo ... :lol:

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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by barbarossa »

There is supposed to be a made in turkey new martini shotgun in 12 and 20 ga coming on the market sometime this year
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Paladin »

gamekeeper wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:23 am
barbarossa wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 5:27 pm I like my Greener GP
The best single shot ever made, I have been to the factory and seen them being made, great choice... :D
I always wanted a Greener just from seeing one when I was a kid and using a Stevens single shot. I have a Fox Double I bought for 200 USD in the 80s and cut to 19 inches for brush use.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

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barbarossa wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 9:37 am There is supposed to be a made in turkey new martini shotgun in 12 and 20 ga coming on the market sometime this year
I am wary of some Turkish made guns but a Martini 20 gauge would get my attention...

Paladin, I'd like to see a picture of your sawn off Fox, I've never seen a Fox shotgun over here so my knowledge of them is limited.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by 4t5 »

Anyone have any experience with the CZ ? https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-hammer-coach/

14 1/2 in lop seems pretty long.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by JB »

4t5 wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 5:55 pm Anyone have any experience with the CZ ? https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-hammer-coach/

14 1/2 in lop seems pretty long.
I know some will disagree with me, but I'm not a fan of most of the cheaper Turkish made shotguns. I'm sure the CZ's would hold up fine with light use, but I wouldn't plan on using on for heavy use.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Pisgah »

I love me a short shotgun! My latest has been mine for 2 days, a Charles Daly 601 Tactical 12 ga. A $250 semi-auto, even one that looks unusually good on the outside, has been more often than not a heartache in my experience. This one is NOT the 601 DPS you'll find on YouTube as "the Benelli M4 clone", but externally it looks very similar, minus the extended magazine tube. This action is not M4-like at all, but more sort of the lovechild of a union between a Beretta 1301 and a Remington 1100.

Sounds like a potential disaster to me, as I think about it -- except now I know better. In the past 2 days I have run a mongrel bunch of 12 ga. ammo through the gun -- a 100-round variety of brands, and ranging from light target loads to twenty OO buck and 10 one-ounce slugs, most of it at least a few years old. The only common characteristic was length, 2 3/4". I held the gun hard, I held it soft, I held it at waist level. I did everything I could to create a malfunction without doing completely stupid stuff.

There were zero malfunctions.

Lord only knows how a $250 semi-auto will hold up over time, but this one has made a great start.
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:37 am I love a hammer gun.
+1 :D
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by 6pt-sika »

4t5 wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 5:55 pm Anyone have any experience with the CZ ? https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-hammer-coach/

14 1/2 in lop seems pretty long.
All shotguns I have are 13 3/4” to 14 1/4” . A little short is better than a little long for me .
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by 6pt-sika »

The circa 1890 Parker Grade 1 top lever 10 gauge hammer gun I mentioned earlier . As stated with the 26” open
choked set of barrels ,
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Ysabel Kid »

A couple years ago I picked up a TR Khan/Kayhan "Duo-Sys" imported by SDS Imports while in TN at Bud's Discount Guns. The system intrigued me; it was both a pump and a semi-auto. Looked like a shotgun for serious social work, and the price was right, so I picked it up.

Looks intimidating, but it literally NEVER worked. EVER. I think I managed to get it to shoot two slugs total. What a piece of junk.

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So, I traded it in for an ATI "DF-12". Simple, reliable pump-action. Also looks intimidating.

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But now I am thinking I need a Shockwave or Tac12 for the car!
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

This is from the longest shot you can take inside my house.
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Griff
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Re: Let’s talk about shotguns for serious use.

Post by Griff »

I've never been a fan of using a shotgun for indoor work... might be a holdover from my training officer in the 1970s, as he held they were too long to move effectively in clearing a house, as they require two hands to be effective. (Opening doors, etc. requires a free hand). For a defensive situation, that is different.

Anyway, after a swing shift patrol, I arrived home after my 32 mile commute from HQ to begin my nightly routine... be as quiet as possible so I didn't wake the Mrs., turn on the tube type TV in the den without upping the volume, fix a sandwich and open a beer to watch the tailend of the Johnny Carson Show or catch the Late, Late Show. (In CA, the Late Show begins at 11pm and with the lack of traffic at that time of nite I could usually catch the last 30 minutes). This had to be early Spring '78 as my wife was pregnant with my son and we'd busy prepping the 2nd bedroom as a nursery. So, after fixing the sandwich and grabbing the beer, I entered the den... now lit up from the TV screen and there sat my wife in my easy chair with my Rem 870 across her lap! I momentarily flashed on what possibly I'd done to make her want to do me in... And she proceeded to let me know... I was clueless).

About 9pm that nite as she exited the bathroom after her shower, she heard someone trying to open the sliding window in our bedroom. (I kept thumb-screw style locks on the bottom track of the horizontal slider, so they were not likely to force it open). So, she goes in our closest and grabs the 870, a few shells from the box there and steps over to the window, putting a few shells in the magazine. (When I unloaded it, I counted 3 in the mag). She then rack the slide chambering a round. She said the only thing she heard after that was someone running across our new concrete patio. What I done wrong? 1 - I worked at nite and wasn't there when she needed me; and 2 - I hadn't finishing building the fence around our back yard like I'd promised. (Only the foundation for the concrete block wall had been installed).
Griff,
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There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
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