A heavy for the .30 WCF

[Bill in Oregon]

I am a member of a Facebook group dedicated to hunting, fishing and camping "in the old way," focused on the era from 1890 to 1930. We're talking Nessmuk, Horace Kephart, Ernest Thompson Seton, Roosevelt -- good company!
Anyway, one of the fellas posted an image of a moose taken with a Savage Model 99 and we got to speculating that it might have been chambered for .303 Savage. This cartridge has fascinated me for much of my life. I have never had a 99 so chambered, but have passed on more than one -- even with octagonal barrel and good bore -- owing to the "ammunition issue." But there isn't an issue, at least not now. Mike Nesbitt proved that the Savage .303s have 308 bores. Grafs in Missouri carries both the brass and loaded ammunition -- although it is only available with 150-grain soft points. I got to thinking back on articles from long ago that listed the 190-grain softpoint in the.303 as among the top choices in the U.S. and Canada for elk, moose and the big bears as it was said to penetrate wonderfully.
Gee, Bill, wouldn't it be fun to load some 190s in the .30 WCF, but I have never seen any for sale. Until this morning, when I actually looked. Not only does Midway have the Barnes original 190-grain flat point on sale, but Barnes lists data for it. From a 24-inch barrel, Barnes says 32.2 grains of CFE223 will give 2113, and 33.8 of Leverevloution will give 2167, for just shy of 2,000 foot pounds of muzzle energy. I'd say that's moving some freight!
Have a box of said 190s en route and will report, once I can this front sight replacement business sorted out on the Marlin 36.

[TraderVic]

Howdy Bill,
The 303 Savage IS an interesting, vintage caliber. RCBS (and likely others) would certainly produce custom dies for you, if needed.
As you probably already know, copper solid bullets need to run full throttle to expand properly. Best wishes with your new endeavor !
Vic

[Drawdown]

Interesting Bill, I too considered trying the 190 gr Barnes in my 30-30. Hawk has a 190gr FN for the 30-30, or at least they did two years ago. I ordered by phone then the Hawk 150gr & 170gr, and talked to him (owners name?) about the 190, but I backed out and only ordered the 150 and 170s. I kinda thought maybe in the 30-30 case, that it couldn't do anymore than the 170, but, IDK??
But I'm set to load the 170g Nosler Partitions for next year, I got 2 boxes over a year ago for little over $40 box, don't know how that happened!
But I've got the old special editions of Rifle Magazines Leverguns edition here, and Nesbitt got a good article in it on the Mod 99 and the 190g bullets in 303.
Good luck with it, pist how it goes!
By the way, I have no doubt the LVR powder will do the job, in my 24" Mid 64, it's amazing the velocity gains over anything else I've tried! After what I've learned about it, now you got me considering the 190 bullets again!

[JimT]

The older Lyman reloading manuals have reloading data for the 190 gr. Savage bullet for use in the .30-30. The notes with it says it was one of the most accurate bullets they tried.

[gcs]

And yet... there's an Aussie on one of these boards at one time that was killing Feral "brush bulls" with 150 gr. factory ammo....Not sure there's anything tougher than an older feral bull.

While bigger is supposed to be better , probably not necessary....

[Drawdown]

Thanks Bill, I done ordered the Barnes 190s. If turns out I don't like em in my 30-30, I know they'll make impressive brush busters in my 30-06! But I believe with LVR in the 30-30 they'll be impressive!

[1894cfan]

Just checked it out on Midway, been considering it for quite some time, but couldn't justify getting it since I already have the RCBS 180gr bullet mold that weights out at 195gr with Lyman #2 lead.

[Sixgun]

If you know what you’re doing as to seating, sizing, powder selection, etc the Lyman 215 gr. is very accurate out to 500 meters as that’s as far as I got. I watched Jack Kort shooting the 215 at 1000 yards up at Ridgeway our of a ‘94 rifle…..You can even seat them out but only for single loading ….you can push them at a leisurely 1600 ….flatten the nose a bit in a sizer will gain you extra room for magazine loading…..

[Bill in Oregon]

Vic, these Barnes Originals are conventional copper-cup lead-core softnoses.
Jim, I think it might have been Sam Fadala who mentioned pulling the 190s from .303 shells to load in his .30-30.
Ken Waters tells us in his Pet Loads profile of the .303 Savage that it was originally loaded with a 195-grain soft-point at 1,952 fps.
He also tells us the .30-30 was originally loaded with a 160-grain bullet at 1,790. As a result, the Savage came off looking pretty good.

[JimT]

I COPIED THIS FROM A 1960's LYMAN RELOADING MANUAL

.30-30 Winchester Loading Data

The 190 grain Winchester Silvertip (designed for the .303 Savage) proved to be an excellent choice in this caliber. We were able to shoot a 1 1/4" 50 yard group with this bullet (5 shots) with a standard 94 Winchester carbine equipped with iron sights.

Accuracy load 30.0 gr. IMR 4350

IMR 3031 Start- 24.0 gr. 1731 fps Max- 27.0 gr. 1978 fps

IMR 4064 Start- 26.0 gr. 1776 fps Max- 29.0 gr. 2013 fps

IMR 4320 Start- 26.0 gr. 1720 fps Max- 29.0 gr. 1903 fps

IMR 4895 Start- 24.0 gr. 1686 fps Max- 27.0 gr. 1923 fps

IMR 4350 Start- 30.0 gr. 1791 fps Max- 33.0 gr. 1955 fps

[Bill in Oregon]

Thanks for copying the load data, Jim. I sure burned a lot of 3031 in my first 20 years of loading for the .30-30 -- all jacketed in those days.
Here's a link to that big Barnes beauty. Impressive S.D. and B.C., too!

https://www.barnesbullets.com/product/b ... per-box=50

[FLINT]

I just remembered that I saw this video a few weeks ago. this should give you an idea of performance.

https://youtu.be/_uYBa_sg4MQ?si=RDOwbbCbEsAMRHOI

[Bill in Oregon]

Flint, thanks for that link. Hope to have some handloads with the Barnes 190 to chronograph here in coming days, and will report.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I love the .30-30 cartridge and I’ve not been without a good .30-30 since I was a child.

But I’ve never used it to shoot a single head of big game. It’s always been my saddle gun or patrol car gun.

I’ve also never loaded a single round of .30 WCF ammunition.

Sort of an odd situation when you think about it.

[Twodot]

Sam Fadala wrote about handloading 190 grain bullets pulled from 303 Savage cartridges in his book "The 30-30 Winchester".
I believe he used IMR 4064 powder.
..

[Bill in Oregon]

Twodot, I remember Sam writing about that. My memory is he liked 748 for .30 WCF, but it might very well have been that he ran 4064 under the 190s. I'll see the Barnes Originals next week, along with a taller Marbles ivory bead front sight. Then I should be in business.

[Scott Tschirhart]

From Sam’s book

[Bill in Oregon]

Thanks Scott. I used to have a copy. And isn't the rifle on the left on the cover the famed "Dale Storey Conversion"?

[Scott Tschirhart]

I think that’s right.

[KWK]

Accuracy load 30.0 gr. IMR 4350

I'm surprised by that comment from the old Lyman guide. Both the Powley computer and QuickLoad predict 3031 or similar is the best bet.

[JMick]

I just checked Amazon. They have Sam's 30-30 book for $24.

[Sarge]

Sam Fadala and Finn Aagaard wrote some great articles on hunting rifles.

I pondered through this 'deep penetrating 30-30' load thing several years ago. In factory loads, I'd go with the Buffalo Bore or 170 grain Federal load with the Nosler Partition bullet. I figured for a reload, I'd use Woodleigh's 190 grain 30-30 bullet or Bengal's 175 Grain WFNGC, with a strong preference for the Bengal.

https://bengalbullets.com/30-175-wfngc

I never got past the planning, because I tripped over an old straight grip Marlin 336 in 35 Remington.

[Bill in Oregon]

Sam's book first came out 37 years ago. How time flies!
Sarge, I had forgotten about Bengal Bullets. Gracias.

[JimT]

The only "heavy" I've loaded in the .30-30 is the RCBS casr bullet #30-180-FN which weighs 190 gr. in my alloy. I sized it .311" and ran it about 1800 fps with 26 gr. H335. The only thing I shot with it was a Hereford cow that I had to put down. I shot her in the head and the angle was such it went through her head, down her neck and into her body someplace where I never recovered it. She was an old, full-size cow and penetration was in "feet" ... not "inches." I shot this bullet and load on the long range Buffalo target at the Whittington Center in New Mexico on several occasions. Oh yes .. forgot .. I did shoot one Whitetail Deer with it. Of course the deer's body did nothing to slow the bullet down. It went right where I aimed and did the job. No test at all.